Edwards health plan - creeps me out the more i think about it.

[heartsurgeon]

"It requires that everybody be covered. It requires that everybody get preventive care,"

hmm...politicians mandating what "preventive" health care and testing you have done..
this should cause civil libertarians to go ballistic.
the goverment is going to mandate that you gets "certain" tests....
well who will decide which tests?
HIV tests manditory?
Manditory screening for drugs or pot? or tobacco use?
If your gonna have manditory screening, are you going to have manditory treatment??

what happens if you don't comply?
loss of health care? jail time?
who will prioritize these manditory tests?
do mamograms take priority over PSA (prostate) exams, or sickle cell testing, or HIV testing?

do you really want the government telling you you have to get a proctoscopy or your going to jail?

while I will assume for the present, that Edwards doesn't have a "evil" agenda with this proposal, it is just unworkable on its face....
you can't get poeple to agree to take vaccinations!!
now your going to MANDATE everything about their health care..that's just ripe for abuse, and just plain creepy..

lets put it this way...suppose George Bush had suggested this.. would you lefties think it sounded like a good idea?

 

[theeedude]

I bet if an HMO required mandatory physicals to maintain coverage, you'd be defending their right to do so.

 

[Gneisenau]

I can't imagine it would end up any different than S.S. and the V.A. I really don't expect the government to get this program right when they've screwed up every other one they've tried.
Once the lobbying starts, who knows where this will end up.

 

[heartsurgeon]

you don't have to join an HMO if you don't want to. thats the difference. you have options. with edwards stalinistic approach, no options.....everyone must be covered, everyone must comply...the government decides...

that should creep anyone out.

 

[Gneisenau]

Originally posted by: senseamp
I bet if an HMO required mandatory physicals to maintain coverage, you'd be defending their right to do so.

I bet if HMO's required manditory physicals to maintain coverage, they would get sued. Otherwise, I can't imagine why they haven't already implemented it. It's got to be a lot cheaper to toss all the sick people out of the game or at the very least find a problem before it becomes cronic.

 

[heartsurgeon]

Once the lobbying starts, who knows where this will end up.

exactly!!

obviously, "mandated" tests will be covered first

politically connected groups will get their favorite "tests" covered first.

industries (drug firms, diagnostic equipment companies) will lobby to have their "test" mandated....

yep, sounds like another system ripe for abuse from all parties...

and you will have no choice in it...

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
you don't have to join an HMO if you don't want to. thats the difference. you have options. with edwards stalinistic approach, no options.....everyone must be covered, everyone must comply...the government decides...

that should creep anyone out.

Right, if your job only offers an HMO, you don't have to join it if you don't want healthcare at all. Just like you don't have to get a checkup if you don't mind losing your government coverage under Edwards plan. I would set up a sliding scale, if you don't get checkups, your copay goes up if something does go wrong later on.

 

[blackangst1]

Is Senator Craig doing the exams? 😛

 

[Pliablemoose]

We don't have the resources for preventative care in the US. I daresay if we doubled the current resources we would still fall far short of what's needed.

 

[ProfJohn]

If I refuse my exam are they going to arrest me?

Was Edwards really thinking when he made that comment? The government can now force you to get medical treatment against your will?

 

[sandorski]

Hmm, ya that's a good way to sabotage your own Plan. Be better to implement Mandatory Voting than this idea. Although even Mandatory Voting would be seen as intrusive.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Gneisenau
I can't imagine it would end up any different than S.S. and the V.A. I really don't expect the government to get this program right when they've screwed up every other one they've tried.
Once the lobbying starts, who knows where this will end up.

We'll end up bent over and poor, Washington DC will be richer.

As for Edward?s plan, the destination to communism has been and always will be socialism. Only reason they even bother with the detour in-between is because Stalin gave it a bad reputation. Same ideals, same dictatorship, different packaging and gift wrap.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
you don't have to join an HMO if you don't want to. thats the difference. you have options. with edwards stalinistic approach, no options.....everyone must be covered, everyone must comply...the government decides...

that should creep anyone out.

what good reasons do people have for not picking the choice that gives them the best chance of survival?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
you don't have to join an HMO if you don't want to. thats the difference. you have options. with edwards stalinistic approach, no options.....everyone must be covered, everyone must comply...the government decides...

that should creep anyone out.

Right, if your job only offers an HMO, you don't have to join it if you don't want healthcare at all. Just like you don't have to get a checkup if you don't mind losing your government coverage under Edwards plan. I would set up a sliding scale, if you don't get checkups, your copay goes up if something does go wrong later on.

I think its even more scary that people like you can't see the difference between a private orgainization that is voluntary to join having certain requirements to stay a member and the government requiring you to do something or you lose your freedom.

 

[Lemon law]

The devil is always in the details and US healthcare is eating up a very high percentage of the entire GDP compared to other industrial countries. US healthcare is also going into crisis mode as more and more major employers are dropping insurance coverage as costs go completely out of all control. And the basis for our current heathcare system is employer based insurance with the trend lines being rather grim.

Heartsurgeon, as a medical professional, if our current healthcare system with all its inefficiencies does not totally creep you out, there is something seriously wrong with you.

By no means if the Edwards plan anything but a raw plan that is subject to all kinds of modifications that could remove some of your unease, but at least Edwards is laying something on the table, and if the medical professionals don't get on board with pushing some realistic plan, they are very likely to get saddled with a worse plan when the trend lines of existing plan causes a complete breakdown of our existing system.

Medical costs are rising far faster than inflation as the quality of care stays the same or drops and that trend is long standing. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure that unless things are brought under control the existing system will collapse. We now have vast private health bureaucracies that are every bit as inefficient as governmental bureaucracies. And worse yet, the insurance industry makes more profits when medical costs rise which is a significant factor in driving up costs now.

Our existing system stinks----Now build something better. Or the people will build it for you
in panic mode when the existing system totally breaks down with the probable stress of an economic downturn. And the panic mode plan will really really creep you out.

No possible plan is going to be without some warts someone won't like, buts its still relative
trade offs to the warts inherent in other options, and our existing system is no longer sustainable. We are the only major industrialized nation without some sort of socialized medicine and have the most inefficient existing system of any major industrialized nation.

 

[Craig234]

Regarding heartsurgeon, it seems odd that a purported surgeon can't spell "mandatory" (not to mention your/you're, a/an, etc.) His spelling seems as well-informed as his politics.

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Gneisenau
I can't imagine it would end up any different than S.S. and the V.A. I really don't expect the government to get this program right when they've screwed up every other one they've tried.
Once the lobbying starts, who knows where this will end up.

We'll end up bent over and poor, Washington DC will be richer.

As for Edward?s plan, the destination to communism has been and always will be socialism. Only reason they even bother with the detour in-between is because Stalin gave it a bad reputation. Same ideals, same dictatorship, different packaging and gift wrap.

Thank you, Senator McCarthy, for the paranoid commie drivel. No wonder you see yourself as some sort of crusader against the evils of another group.

You are like the people you oppose, those 'crazy haters'.

As for the OP and followups asking what in the world happens, like jail, to those who don't get the checkups, the linked article answers clearly: they're not covered by this plan.

"If you are going to be in the system, you can't choose not to go to the doctor for 20 years. You have to go in and be checked and make sure that you are OK."

 

[CycloWizard]

Here's the part that I find most appalling:

Edwards said his plan would cost up to $120 billion a year, a cost he proposes covering by ending President Bush's tax cuts to people who make more than $200,000 per year.

This is either pure ignorance or a blatant lie on his part. He has to have some idea of the national expenditures on Medicare/aid at this point, and these plans would be much, much more extensive and, therefore, expensive. What a joke. Medicare alone was $340 billion in 2006. Edwards has always been a dishonest bastard and this just seals my opinion of him as such.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
you don't have to join an HMO if you don't want to. thats the difference. you have options. with edwards stalinistic approach, no options.....everyone must be covered, everyone must comply...the government decides...

that should creep anyone out.

Right, if your job only offers an HMO, you don't have to join it if you don't want healthcare at all. Just like you don't have to get a checkup if you don't mind losing your government coverage under Edwards plan. I would set up a sliding scale, if you don't get checkups, your copay goes up if something does go wrong later on.

I think its even more scary that people like you can't see the difference between a private orgainization that is voluntary to join having certain requirements to stay a member and the government requiring you to do something or you lose your freedom.

Where did he say you'll lose your freedom if you don't get a physical?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Here's the part that I find most appalling:

Edwards said his plan would cost up to $120 billion a year, a cost he proposes covering by ending President Bush's tax cuts to people who make more than $200,000 per year.

This is either pure ignorance or a blatant lie on his part. He has to have some idea of the national expenditures on Medicare/aid at this point, and these plans would be much, much more extensive and, therefore, expensive. What a joke. Medicare alone was $340 billion in 2006. Edwards has always been a dishonest bastard and this just seals my opinion of him as such.

Seems pretty clear to me he's talking about covering the *difference* in cost between the current policy and his change.

But I won't call you a dishnoest bastard for the mistake.

 

[theeedude]

What is scary to me is that Republicans think that the current system is great and that treating uninsured in ERs is just fine.
I don't see Republicans proposing any meaningful reforms at all.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
Topic Title: Edwards health plan - creeps me out the more i think about it.
Topic Summary: Mandatory examinations mandated by politicians....sounds lovely..

Oh come on, come clean.

You would not like any plan now would you?

You believe the current way of health care only for the rich works best don't you?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Craig234
Seems pretty clear to me he's talking about covering the *difference* in cost between the current policy and his change.

But I won't call you a dishnoest bastard for the mistake.

Oh, so less than half of the country currently costs >$500 billion, but covering the rest (which, by my reckoning, is then more than half) will only cost an additional $120 billion? Get ye to a math class kid.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Craig234
Seems pretty clear to me he's talking about covering the *difference* in cost between the current policy and his change.

But I won't call you a dishnoest bastard for the mistake.

Oh, so less than half of the country currently costs >$500 billion, but covering the rest (which, by my reckoning, is then more than half) will only cost an additional $120 billion? Get ye to a math class kid.

No, I'm simply pointing out something that your post left open to suspect you got wrong, the idea that he was saying the entire cost of his health care plan was paid by that one tax.

If you're now clarifying that you're only asserting that his tax won't cover the difference between the programs, fine; that's another issue, and I haven't done the research to have an opinion on it. But it's a lot more complicated than simply using one program and extrapolating the numbers to the population of the US.

Get ye to a writing and reading class, kid.

 

[heartsurgeon]

s for the OP and followups asking what in the world happens, like jail, to those who don't get the checkups, the linked article answers clearly: they're not covered by this plan.

It requires that everybody be covered

It requires that everybody get preventive care

Edwards said his mandatory health care plan...

please quote the EXACT sentence in the article where Edwards says it's optional, or that "they're not covered by this plan"

The polite explanation is your reading comprehension is poor, the impolite explanation is your making stuff up...which is it?

I don't see Republicans proposing any meaningful reforms at all.

I heavily fault Bush for not pushing medical malpractice reform..Rep Pres, House and Senate...our best chance at putting the malpractice lawyers (like Edwards) back into a cage, lost for another generation...yes, I'm cheesed at the Repubs about this.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Craig234
No, I'm simply pointing out something that your post left open to suspect you got wrong, the idea that he was saying the entire cost of his health care plan was paid by that one tax.

If you're now clarifying that you're only asserting that his tax won't cover the difference between the programs, fine; that's another issue, and I haven't done the research to have an opinion on it. But it's a lot more complicated than simply using one program and extrapolating the numbers to the population of the US.

Get ye to a writing and reading class, kid.

Don't project your ignorance on me, sir. I made no such claim. I simply stated that $120 billion would not come close to covering the tab of his proposal.