Educate me on starter DSLRs

[Homerboy]

I can get the T2i w/ EF-S/18-55 IS II and Canon EF-S 55-250 f/4-5.6 IS for $728 shipped from B&H

That's about the best deal I can find from a reputable dealer.

 

[Homerboy]

Well.... it's official.
Tax returns have hit the bank so the funds are available.
Now to make the decision.

 

[shortylickens]

In both high-end and low-end cameras, lens stabilization is superior to sensor stabilization.

I'd stick with Canon/Nikon no matter what. If you want a better deal for your money get one of the lower end models. No need to bother with other brands.

 

[JohnnyRebel]

In both high-end and low-end cameras, lens stabilization is superior to sensor stabilization.

"Better" is a strong term. I know Canon and Nikon both publish articles about how lens stabilization is better because performance can be tuned to a particular lens, and a small shift in the lens can make a big shift on a sensor...

HOWEVER, sensor stabilization has advantages. It works with every lens that can mount on the camera. This means both modern and thirty year old lenses can be stabilized. This also means that you will get stabilization on primes and wide-angle lenses, something that I don't think is done for any lens stabilized system. AND, you only pay for it once.

So, be careful with such absolute statements.

JR

 

[CptObvious]

I wouldn't bother with Canon's basic Rebels (T1i, T3) since the T2i is discounted pretty heavily now. Last week Adorama had the T2i body for $400. eBay had a daily deal on a kit today as well (looks sold out).

D3100 is the camera I started with when I got back into photography last year. It's very basic but capable. D5100 is the camera I have coming now. In between I went kind of crazy buying, trying, and selling cameras (60D x2, 5D, X100). I settled on the D5100 because it had the best balance between image quality, performance, and size/weight for me.

As for Canon vs. Nikon, I've had both and here's my take:
Canon pros: Cheaper bodies, no price-fixing policy (yet), don't have to worry about whether the lens has a AF motor as all of their EF/EF-S lenses do, some lenses are cheaper or not available in Nikon (e.g., 70-200 f/4, 135 f/2).

Canon cons: Many of their consumer-level lenses are 15-20 years old and need updating, but Canon doesn't seem to think so. The consumer lenses they did update this week are now more than double the price, which makes me think Canon has lost touch with the average photographer. They want you to spend $1K+ on their L(uxury) line of lenses for an AF motor that doesn't buzz (unlike the 35 f/2) or isn't fragile (like the 50 1.4). They don't include lens hoods or cases for their consumer lenses.

Nikon pros: Released new affordable consumer lenses in the past 5 years. They include lens hoods, case, and a 6-year warranty on most of their lenses (vs. 1 year on Canon). D5100/D7000 uses new Sony sensors that outperform the T2i/T3i/60D/7D sensor in some ways. They also have some notable lenses that Canon doesn't make (e.g. 35 1.8, 14-24)

Nikon cons: Instituted a price-fixing policy last year that basically ends special discounts/sales by merchants. Bodies and lenses are more expensive overall than Canon's. D3100/D5100 limits your choices of AF lenses to those with an AF motor. Third-party batteries don't play well in Nikons and OEM batteries are overpriced.

I don't have a strong preference for either (I'd jump back to Canon in if the 5Dmk2 dropped significantly in price). In many cases you can find third-party lenses/flashes which blurs the distinction between the two brands. I think that's why ultimately people advise getting the one that just feels better in your hands.

 

[Homerboy]

T2i is the current leader. I'm just trying now to find the best price/lens package I can.
I wish newegg had better packages as I'd like to take advantage of 0% for a year.

 

[blastingcap]

I wouldn't bother with Canon's basic Rebels (T1i, T3) since the T2i is discounted pretty heavily now. Last week Adorama had the T2i body for $400. eBay had a daily deal on a kit today as well (looks sold out).

D3100 is the camera I started with when I got back into photography last year. It's very basic but capable. D5100 is the camera I have coming now. In between I went kind of crazy buying, trying, and selling cameras (60D x2, 5D, X100). I settled on the D5100 because it had the best balance between image quality, performance, and size/weight for me.

As for Canon vs. Nikon, I've had both and here's my take:
Canon pros: Cheaper bodies, no price-fixing policy (yet), don't have to worry about whether the lens has a AF motor as all of their EF/EF-S lenses do, some lenses are cheaper or not available in Nikon (e.g., 70-200 f/4, 135 f/2).

Canon cons: Many of their consumer-level lenses are 15-20 years old and need updating, but Canon doesn't seem to think so. The consumer lenses they did update this week are now more than double the price, which makes me think Canon has lost touch with the average photographer. They want you to spend $1K+ on their L(uxury) line of lenses for an AF motor that doesn't buzz (unlike the 35 f/2) or isn't fragile (like the 50 1.4). They don't include lens hoods or cases for their consumer lenses.

Nikon pros: Released new affordable consumer lenses in the past 5 years. They include lens hoods, case, and a 6-year warranty on most of their lenses (vs. 1 year on Canon). D5100/D7000 uses new Sony sensors that outperform the T2i/T3i/60D/7D sensor in some ways. They also have some notable lenses that Canon doesn't make (e.g. 35 1.8, 14-24)

Nikon cons: Instituted a price-fixing policy last year that basically ends special discounts/sales by merchants. Bodies and lenses are more expensive overall than Canon's. D3100/D5100 limits your choices of AF lenses to those with an AF motor. Third-party batteries don't play well in Nikons and OEM batteries are overpriced.

I don't have a strong preference for either (I'd jump back to Canon in if the 5Dmk2 dropped significantly in price). In many cases you can find third-party lenses/flashes which blurs the distinction between the two brands. I think that's why ultimately people advise getting the one that just feels better in your hands.

You forgot to add:

Nikon gives you lens hood and pouch for free; Canon makes you pay for them and overprice them, except for their L lenses which are themselves quite expensive (but slightly cheaper than Nikon).

Consumer Nikon lenses are built better and slightly sharper than Canon and have 5 year warranty; Canon flimsier and 1 year. Their higher-grade and pro stuff is on par with each other in build quality, though.

Consumer Nikon bodies are built better than flimsy Canon. The semipro is about the same, pro is about the same.

Canon lenses tend to be a little cheaper but that's without 5 year warranty, lens hood, or pouch, so you do not see much of a difference until you go up the price scale pretty high.

Nikon is 1.5x crop factor, Canon 1.6x. Not a huge difference but you can see the diff at the wide end if you have an ultrawide lens.

Nikon tends to have better AF and not skimp on metering as much, either. Even the high end Canons have worse AF and metering than the high end Nikons, see the 5DMkII for example, it's sad that Canon crippled its AF in order to save sales of their 1 series. Doesn't mean Canon AF is bad, just not as good. Ditto metering.

 

[Homerboy]

I hate to be a bother about this, but I am going up and back between the Canon T2i w/ 18-55 IS lens + 55-250 IS lens (~$920) and the Canon T2i w/ 18-55 IS lens + 55-300 lens (~$790). I know it's "only" $130, but if I don't have to spend it, and can pick up additional things (lens hood, cover, filters etc etc) that would be a bonus.

So the debate really now is between the 55-250 IS and the 55-300 Canon lenses.

Edit: I did post in the FS/T forums too, so maybe I will end up with a deal there...

 

[Homerboy]

gaaaahhhh. Scratch the above.
I went to BB and actually held the 5100 and the T2i in my hands. The T2i just feels.... cheap compared to the 5100. It even looks cheaper.

I think I may end up getting a stock D5100 with 18-55 lens. Saving some pennies for the telephoto (I technically don't need until May when BBall starts).

Fracccccccccccck. It was easier picking out my wife!

 

[Homerboy]

anything wrong with a refurb from Newegg?
Save $50?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16830113329

 

[iGas]

I hate to be a bother about this, but I am going up and back between the Canon T2i w/ 18-55 IS lens + 55-250 IS lens (~$920) and the Canon T2i w/ 18-55 IS lens + 55-300 lens (~$790). I know it's "only" $130, but if I don't have to spend it, and can pick up additional things (lens hood, cover, filters etc etc) that would be a bonus.

So the debate really now is between the 55-250 IS and the 55-300 Canon lenses.

Edit: I did post in the FS/T forums too, so maybe I will end up with a deal there...

It is quite obvious that $130 for IS is the one to take because it is cheap for an IS upgrade, but you shouldn't expect stellar performance from it.

I haven't heard about Canon 55-300mm. You might be talking about the 70-300mm, 75-300mm, or 100-300mm. Cheap lens in this range of focal length/zoom aren't known to be good performer and that including Canon & Nikon (I think Canon is worst than Nikon in this department). 300mm * 1.6 = 480mm at f/5.6 mean that you are reduce to shooting at 1/500s or greater shutter speed with out IS, and the quality of the glass is subpar, hence it will be a piece of lead weight that you lug around and will never ever use.

In the last 25+ years I have had at least 5 lenses (Canon, Vivitar, Olympus, Pentax) in that focal length/zoom and a mirror lens, and they are absolutely useless, except for the zoom lenses that have a max of 210mm on 35mm bodies.

IMHO, take the 55-250mm IS. Or, better way to go would be saving a bit more money and buy a used 70-200mm f/4L.

 

[CuriousMike]

I went to BB and actually held the 5100 and the T2i in my hands.

It's an oft repeated suggestion; the cameras are so close in performance, you just have to hold them in your hands and pick the one that fits you best.

 

[CuriousMike]

My D5000 was a refurb; couldn't be happier.

anything wrong with a refurb from Newegg?

I can't speak specifically to Newegg, but I had good luck with my D5000 refurb from B&H.

 

[Homerboy]

It's an oft repeated suggestion; the cameras are so close in performance, you just have to hold them in your hands and pick the one that fits you best.

Yeah it's funny because I always recommend this "method" to people for things like laptops and the like. Sure the specs may be the same, but until you hold one in your hands and "use" it, you just don't know.

I was pretty amazed at how much better the nikon felt, and dare I say even LOOKED.

I'm tempted on this refurb but scared too

 

[Throckmorton]

I happened to spot a Sony A35 at Sears so I played with it. The EVF is amazing! The image is much bigger than on my HX1, and very high res. OP, I think you really should consider Sony and not just "Canikon".

 

[micrometers]

I believe you'll be happy with whatever model you pick. The biggest choice nowadays isn't so much in between individual models, but rather between mirrorless models and the compact larger sensor ones.

For instance, with the Canon S90 out, I know a guy who is a professional photographer who has gotten his work into Time magazine and such, who said that the S90 was good enough for most of his work.

While I personally like the idea of a viewfinder, it also adds a significant amount of weight, and traveling with a heavy DSLR gets old fast.

If I were in the market for a camera (btw, if you're interested I have a Olympus E520 for sale) I'd probably choose between the Canon S100, the Olympus Pen series, or the Canon G1x.

 

[twistedlogic]

I think I may end up getting a stock D5100 with 18-55 lens. Saving some pennies for the telephoto (I technically don't need until May when BBall starts).

Nikon's 70-300 VR or Sigma's 70-300 OS (optical stability) would be a nice addition to that kit. Both offer great optics for the price and can be found used for $350-400.

They also focus much faster than Nikon's 55-200 and 55-300 which use a different type of AF-S than Nikon's higher end AF-S lenses use, like the 70-300 VR.

 

[JohnnyRebel]

anything wrong with a refurb from Newegg?
Save $50?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16830113329

I looked at Adorama, the refurb is $630 and new is $750. You'll have to decide if it is worth the difference. I often buy refurbished and have never had a problem. I bought a Refurb D7000 in November and the warranty expiration is coming up in about a week. I've shot hundreds of photos with no problem. I am thinking about sending it in for a clean and calibrate just because I can before the warranty runs out.

For the $120 difference, think about it like a free SB-400 flash or 50mm f/1.8 lens. Or, perhaps getting a refurbished 55-200 Nikon lens for $30 bucks. That's only 3000 pennies.

JR

 

[RampantAndroid]

gaaaahhhh. Scratch the above.
I went to BB and actually held the 5100 and the T2i in my hands. The T2i just feels.... cheap compared to the 5100. It even looks cheaper.

I think I may end up getting a stock D5100 with 18-55 lens. Saving some pennies for the telephoto (I technically don't need until May when BBall starts).

Fracccccccccccck. It was easier picking out my wife!

What about a D5000/D5100 with the Nikkor 18-200 VR lens? It's a one-lens-fits-most solution, that I use when hiking and LOVE it. I just ordered a D7000, which uses the same Sony sensor as the D5100, and the sensor looks great, if reading stuff online is any indication - good low light/high ISO perf.

Personally, I prefer Nikon...but Canon and Nikon seem pretty much neck in neck perf wise.

I've got a D70 right now that's great, minus it not liking 8GB CF cards very much.

 

[Homerboy]

What about a D5000/D5100 with the Nikkor 18-200 VR lens? It's a one-lens-fits-most solution, that I use when hiking and LOVE it. I just ordered a D7000, which uses the same Sony sensor as the D5100, and the sensor looks great, if reading stuff online is any indication - good low light/high ISO perf.

Personally, I prefer Nikon...but Canon and Nikon seem pretty much neck in neck perf wise.

I've got a D70 right now that's great, minus it not liking 8GB CF cards very much.

I looked at that lens actually for the exact same reason you mentioned... it seems like a 1-stop-shop. No messing with switching lenses. But then I worried about having this "huge lens" on the camera all the damned time. Doesn't that get cumbersome?

 

[RampantAndroid]

I looked at that lens actually for the exact same reason you mentioned... it seems like a 1-stop-shop. No messing with switching lenses. But then I worried about having this "huge lens" on the camera all the damned time. Doesn't that get cumbersome?

The two downsides to that lens are its weight, and that if hanging from your neck, it'll just zoom all the way in (I don't have the second version with the 18mm lock on it.)

But would you rather carry 2 lenses, or one? For me, the convenience is great. But again, that's while hiking normally - it's great to be able to zoom in on something far away, but then zoom out for a shot of a friend, or a panoramic shot or similar. It might not make as much sense for you, but I offer it as an option.

There is probably a sigma lens with the same range to it that can mount on either canon bases, or nikon bases.

 

[Homerboy]

Ok. All set to pull the trigger on the D5100 from amazon (18/55 lens)

Are there any little add-ons anyone recommends? Lens filters? Cleaners?... anything?
I tossed in a 16GB SDHC (enough?)
Should I snag an additional battery while I'm at it? Or grip?

 

[RampantAndroid]

Ok. All set to pull the trigger on the D5100 from amazon (18/55 lens)

Are there any little add-ons anyone recommends? Lens filters? Cleaners?... anything?
I tossed in a 16GB SDHC (enough?)
Should I snag an additional battery while I'm at it? Or grip?

I bought two lexar 8GB professional cards. In my mind, two cards beats one - if one fails, then you've got a second.

I always buy a second battery. If you use a VR lens, the battery will drain fast. If you use live view, it'll drain faster.

Always but ALWAYS buy filters for a lens. I know people who have dropped their lenses and/or cameras and only had a filter shatter - who knows what would have broken without a filter on it. Moreover, if a filter scratches, you're out $20. If a lens scratches, you've gotta fix it.

If you want to, grab a pen brush - great in case dirt gets on the mirror.

Consider a case - I bought the Tamrac explorer 2.

 

[CptObvious]

Amazon doesn't advertise it, but you can add a 55-200 VR lens for $150 or 55-300 VR for $250 (must checkout with the body).

 

[Homerboy]

Amazon doesn't advertise it, but you can add a 55-200 VR lens for $150 or 55-300 VR for $250 (must checkout with the body).

That's why I am tempted by something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-Digital...6L76/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1329221244&sr=8-5

and it comes with "goodies".
Cheap, but acceptable.