Educate me about small vintage cars (MGs, Triumphs, etc)

[Fenixgoon]

I went with a coworker to look at a vintage truck in which he was interested. The dealership also had what I think was a 1977 MG MGB. I sat in it, and was surprised at how well the car actually seats (if you're not too tall that is).

So now I'm thinking a small, super light car might be more fun to toss around than if i went heavier/more power.

Given that these cars are 30-50 years old, what makes/models should i look at. what's the most attainable and maintainable?

MG MGB's appear to range from 3-25k in price, but i honestly have no idea what separates the low end from the high (except for maybe a full restoration)

 

[weadjust]

My best friend had one in high school. I think it was a 74 MGB. He is not mechanically inclined. I had to work on that thing Mon-Fri so we could ride around Sat-Sun with the top down. Lots fuel and electrical issues. Don't know if all MGs are that problematic. Only dealt with one.

I currently have a 52 MG replica kit car on a 69 VW Chassis built by my dad in 1981. Easy to work on cause it's a VW and parts are cheap.

 

[MagickMan]

Ah, that epic Midlands quality. Make sure you always have your tools with you, small British ragtops are a joy and a pain. If you're willing to go that far, you could look into an Alfa or Fiat spider. Check bringatrailer.com and see what's out there.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Stay away from anything after about '72. Early emissions controls never really let the cars run properly and it can be an absolute bear to make things work right after they've gone out of whack from age.

British sports cars from the 1950s through the early 1970s had about the same level of technical sophistication and weather protection as a Ford Model T, but the British cars were lower to the ground. 😛

Seriously though, they're pretty simple and mechanical beasts, not too much to go really horribly wrong. There are a lot of little things to go wrong though and between age and the fact that they were never that great to begin with the electrical systems can be problematic (there are so many jokes about the Lucas electronics used in old British cars that I couldn't begin to list them all here). Still, even if those failures are relatively common, they're also usually pretty simple to diagnose (e.g. "switch broke" or "frayed wire is shorting on the steering column causing the entire wiring harness to catch on fire").

If you don't need the car as daily transportation, there's a lot of fun to be had with an older British car like an MGB or a Triumph, but you should expect to have to deal with a reasonable amount of upkeep if you buy one that hasn't been fully restored and cared for. Unrestored cars in good shape aren't bad, but old stuff is old stuff and they'll necessarily have more problems than a car that was recently fully restored.

In general, get the best you can afford unless you want a restoration project of your own.

ZV

 

[Greenman]

A friend of mine had a triumph, got it brand new in the late 70's. She said the only thing she didn't love about the car was it's inability to run for three consecutive day's.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

/whistle

27 years old. thats almost 30.

 

[JCH13]

A friend of mine has an old Spitfire (if memory serves). Frequently has fuel and electrical issues, I've only ever seen him drive it once. Another friend of mine bought one for his wife that had been restored completely, to the tune of about $18k. That one has been reliable and gets driven frequently in the summer and has a few car show trophies.

If you really want an old British roadster, then you'll have to get an old British roadster. If you want a light car to toss around some curvy roads without any fuss there are better options, like the MR2 and Miata.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Stay away from anything after about '72. Early emissions controls never really let the cars run properly and it can be an absolute bear to make things work right after they've gone out of whack from age.

British sports cars from the 1950s through the early 1970s had about the same level of technical sophistication and weather protection as a Ford Model T, but the British cars were lower to the ground. 😛

Seriously though, they're pretty simple and mechanical beasts, not too much to go really horribly wrong. There are a lot of little things to go wrong though and between age and the fact that they were never that great to begin with the electrical systems can be problematic (there are so many jokes about the Lucas electronics used in old British cars that I couldn't begin to list them all here). Still, even if those failures are relatively common, they're also usually pretty simple to diagnose (e.g. "switch broke" or "frayed wire is shorting on the steering column causing the entire wiring harness to catch on fire").

If you don't need the car as daily transportation, there's a lot of fun to be had with an older British car like an MGB or a Triumph, but you should expect to have to deal with a reasonable amount of upkeep if you buy one that hasn't been fully restored and cared for. Unrestored cars in good shape aren't bad, but old stuff is old stuff and they'll necessarily have more problems than a car that was recently fully restored.

In general, get the best you can afford unless you want a restoration project of your own.

ZV

Most of the runners have pretty much had the electrical issues sorted in them by now. My Step-Dad had a '71 Triumph TR-6 which was a great car. He never really had any issues with it but it was only used in the summer when the top could go down. I drove it a few times and it was a great drivers car.

Honestly, I think rust is the most major thing to look for. If it has it, don't buy it.

Still, never a bad idea to have a few jars of this lying around: 😀

 

[_Rick_]

/whistle

27 years old. thats almost 30.

The difference between an 80's Japanese car, and a 70's British car is....unfathomable 😀

In one it's exciting to go fast, in the other it's exciting to go more than 200 feet from the garage.


OP: If you want small and light, a 2000s Lotus Elise is probably the way to go.
If you prefer the retro look, consider Caterham or a Morgan Plus 4.
A Triumph or similar will probably need a toolkit and a replacement battery, soldering iron and wire set, to safely drive.

 

[franksta]

I've got a buddy with a MGB GT. He drives it to work and takes it to autocross events regularly, he's in love with it.

This is it in my garage getting a new hood support welded in.

The MG B is fairly common and should be easy enough to get parts for and not horribly expensive.

I've wanted an Austin-Healey 3000 for a long time but have never had enough money at the same time one was for sale.

 

[Jimzz]

Big thing to look out for is rust, this is true for most/all older cars.

The fuel and electrical issues can be fixed pretty easy IMO by updating to a aftermarket wiring harness and updated carb/FI. Even my 73 Chevy I am replacing all the wires and fuel system.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Most of the runners have pretty much had the electrical issues sorted in them by now.

The issue I have with unrestored runners is that the maintenance is often an unknown. Even with the relative simplicity of older British cars it's not always easy to tell if there are wonky splices or half-arsed "fixes" that seem fine now but will cause an issue in a few months. Or there's something that's 35 years old and fine right now but probably ready for refreshing in a couple years. Things like that. Not catastrophic failures, just age issues that would happen to even the best cars.

A recently restored car will have had almost everything refreshed and shouldn't have the same age-related issues. Nothing wrong with a well-cared-for survivor, it's just that those cars are more likely to have an age-related part failure.

ZV

 

[Jimzz]

The issue I have with unrestored runners is that the maintenance is often an unknown. Even with the relative simplicity of older British cars it's not always easy to tell if there are wonky splices or half-arsed "fixes" that seem fine now but will cause an issue in a few months. Or there's something that's 35 years old and fine right now but probably ready for refreshing in a couple years. Things like that. Not catastrophic failures, just age issues that would happen to even the best cars.

A recently restored car will have had almost everything refreshed and shouldn't have the same age-related issues. Nothing wrong with a well-cared-for survivor, it's just that those cars are more likely to have an age-related part failure.

ZV

I agree 100% with this. Wires, switchs, etc... get old. Just because they work does not mean the sheating of the wires or the wire itself is not going to fail anytime. My 73 the wires, mostly, are orignal. The car runs but there are so many bubba splices its easier for me to replace the whole thing then try and verfy its all in good shape.

After 30+ years sometimes its good to just replace then wait for a failure that can destroy the entire car.

 

[JulesMaximus]

The issue I have with unrestored runners is that the maintenance is often an unknown. Even with the relative simplicity of older British cars it's not always easy to tell if there are wonky splices or half-arsed "fixes" that seem fine now but will cause an issue in a few months. Or there's something that's 35 years old and fine right now but probably ready for refreshing in a couple years. Things like that. Not catastrophic failures, just age issues that would happen to even the best cars.

A recently restored car will have had almost everything refreshed and shouldn't have the same age-related issues. Nothing wrong with a well-cared-for survivor, it's just that those cars are more likely to have an age-related part failure.

ZV

So, your recommendation is to buy only full restoration vehicles? You can repair an awful lot of wiring for the cost of a full resto.

I still say rust is the major issue you are going to have with old British sports cars.

 

[Zenmervolt]

So, your recommendation is to buy only full restoration vehicles?

Now where the fuck did I say anything even remotely like that? Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ.

What I actually said:

Unrestored cars in good shape aren't bad, but old stuff is old stuff and they'll necessarily have more problems than a car that was recently fully restored.

If you're honestly trying to imply that an unrestored car won't have more age-related issues than a fully restored example then there's just not going to be any reasoning with you.

A fully restored car (assuming a competent restoration) will, on average, be more reliable than a well-cared-for survivor. There's just no way around that. This does not mean that a survivor in good condition will be unreliable per se, but it absolutely will have more little issues than a car that's been gone over. That's just how it works with old machines.

A person would be a fool to buy an unrestored car without intending to budget for a few age-related repairs. That's not to say it's a bad deal, but a buyer needs to be aware of that.

Considering that fully restored MGBs trade hands below $20k (a quick search pulled up several restored examples below $15k) it's not unreasonable to suggest that it may be worth someone's while to buy one that someone's already gone over.

ZV

 

[JulesMaximus]

Now where the fuck did I say anything even remotely like that? Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ.

Calm down. It was a question. I wasn't implying that you said that.

If you're honestly trying to imply that an unrestored car won't have more age-related issues than a fully restored example then there's just not going to be any reasoning with you.

A fully restored car (assuming a competent restoration) will, on average, be more reliable than a well-cared-for survivor. There's just no way around that. This does not mean that a survivor in good condition will be unreliable per se, but it absolutely will have more little issues than a car that's been gone over. That's just how it works with old machines.

A person would be a fool to buy an unrestored car without intending to budget for a few age-related repairs. That's not to say it's a bad deal, but a buyer needs to be aware of that.

Considering that fully restored MGBs trade hands below $20k (a quick search pulled up several restored examples below $15k) it's not unreasonable to suggest that it may be worth someone's while to buy one that someone's already gone over.

ZV

Well Duh. Thank you captain obvious.

Any old British car will have some issues of course but the best starting point is one that is rust free. Looking for electrical gremlins isn't going to be something one can sort out on a test drive, other than checking to make sure everything works of course, which is something I would recommend.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Any old British car will have some issues of course but the best starting point is one that is rust free. Looking for electrical gremlins isn't going to be something one can sort out on a test drive, other than checking to make sure everything works of course, which is something I would recommend.

Rust is an automatic deal breaker, yes. But saying someone should make sure the car is rust free is like saying that they should check to make sure it has all four wheels. It's an obvious concern for any used car and isn't unique to vintage British roadsters.

As far as issues that are unique to older British sportscars, the chief problems are electrical issues, fluid leaks, and weather sealing that's marginal in the best of circumstances (for the convertibles).

ZV

 

[JulesMaximus]

Rust is an automatic deal breaker, yes. But saying someone should make sure the car is rust free is like saying that they should check to make sure it has all four wheels. It's an obvious concern for any used car and isn't unique to vintage British roadsters.

As far as issues that are unique to older British sportscars, the chief problems are electrical issues, fluid leaks, and weather sealing that's marginal in the best of circumstances (for the convertibles).

ZV

Honestly, I'd recommend he take any prospective car to someone who knows and works on British cars and pay them to go through the car and tell him what is wrong with it rather than post on an interwebs forum asking a bunch of people who have never owned one what to look for. 😛

Buy the best car you can afford and make sure you have it looked at by a professional so you'll know before you exchange money what you might be in for as far as repairs or possible problems.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Honestly, I'd recommend he take any prospective car to someone who knows and works on British cars and pay them to go through the car and tell him what is wrong with it rather than post on an interwebs forum asking a bunch of people who have never owned one what to look for. 😛

:biggrin: Valid.

Old German cars are bad enough. I don't need to deal with the things that my friends with old British cars do. 😛

ZV

 

[Fenixgoon]

any of these look reasonable?

http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/cto/3576061211.html

http://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/3525052037.html

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/3591936966.html

http://york.craigslist.org/cto/3568865780.html

 

[mmntech]

My mechanic occasionally fixes MGs and Triumphs. When I worked next door to him, I used to see them there all the time in the summer. Owners loved to baby them. They certainly aren't turnkey jobs. They need a lot of maintenance to keep them running. Would make a fantastic hobby car for home mechanics though. That goes for any original, unrestored car though.

 

[KMc]

I have a 79 MGB and besides issues with rust, poor grounding/wiring design, carburetion, fuel system and brake cylinder leaks, they are great cars!

Actually, I haven't had a single issue with mine in about 5 years - which is coincidentally the amount of time it's been in storage.

 

[pauldun170]

/whistle

27 years old. thats almost 30.

If I had a car list, that would be on it.

 

[ballmode]

just get any miata and save yourself the headache

 

[Zap]

Speaking of small vintage cars... I saw two last few weeks in San Diego.

First one was an old Mini Cooper with a sticker on the back window that said something like "Yes it is RHD." Yup, right hand drive. It had some more modern looking aftermarket wheels on it.

Second one was just yesterday morning. It was a Volkswagen of some kind, also RHD. It was 2-door, boxy and had a trunk, and looked vaguely like a BMW 2002 but maybe smaller. It had more modern wheels/tires, and was slammed.