Edmunds First Drive: 2007 BMW 335i Coupe

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: Nebor
The new VQ makes 310hp @ 7500rpm. Sadly, it only makes 217 ft-lbs of torque, and that doesn't show up until 6000rpm.

While the 335i makes 295 ft-lbs of torque @ 1300rpm (that's right, just off idle) and holds it all the way to the top.

Basically BMW has made a smoother motor for a more normal car, and Infiniti has made an attempt at replicating the M3 3.2l, but with a larger engine, less horsepower, and less torque. All in a heavier car. Brilliant.

where are you getting your VQ numbers from?

2006 spec

260 to 270 ft-lbs at 4800 rpm

i seriously doubt the 07 VQ takes any step back let alone that much.

heh... well my Speed6 makes 280TQ at 2800RPM... so there...

 

[MBrown]

Originally posted by: jtvang125
IS350 > 335i C

S4 > 335i > IS350.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: senseamp
G35 is going to have 300+ hp NA with 7500 rpm redline, and cost closer to the 325i. 335i needs to put out more HP to justify its pricetag.

BMWs don't need horsepower to justify their pricetag. They have a reputation backed by solid performance.

Besides, there's no way in hell the G35 will even come close to matching the 335's useable powerband or torque.

Not true, VQ has excellent low end torque and a very wide powerband. Add to that a 7500 rpm redline, and you got one hell of an engine. Infiniti has reputation backed by solid performance too, and it's got reliability as well. If BMW didn't need horsepower to justify their pricetag, they would not be turbocharging their I6. Their I6 doesn't scale like the competition's V6's do, so they have to add turbos to keep up in the HP race, with both Infiniti and Lexus coming out with 300 HP+ V6s. I could see how a few years back, BMW could get away with being underpowered because of great interior and exterior design, but those days are gone. We have Bangled up exteriors, weird looking interiors, and i-drive. Nothing really to write home about.
http://www.nissannews.com/multimedia/concept/2007/800px/04_coupe_concept.jpg

The new VQ makes 310hp @ 7500rpm. Sadly, it only makes 217 ft-lbs of torque, and that doesn't show up until 6000rpm.

While the 335i makes 295 ft-lbs of torque @ 1300rpm (that's right, just off idle) and holds it all the way to the top.

Basically BMW has made a smoother motor for a more normal car, and Infiniti has made an attempt at replicating the M3 3.2l, but with a larger engine, less horsepower, and less torque. All in a heavier car. Brilliant.

You must be thinking of some Honda motor, and probably never driven a VQ powered car. VQ made 260 lbft of torque at low RPMs since it came out in 2002 Maxima.
This new motor will only build on that, and add a 7500 rpm redline. What BMW has done is attempt to replicate competitors V6 power using a 3L Inline Turbo, while costing about $10K more and taking a couple step backwards in exterior and interior design. Brilliant.

 

[mk52]

debating car performance based on HP somehow reminds me of comparing CPU's based on MHZ alone.

 

[AdamK47]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: AdamK47 3DS
300hp from twin turbos on a high compression V6? No thanks. I smell the work of a marketing department on this one. This works in BMWs favor though. Knowledgeable BMW owners are hard to come by and they'll eat this right up with words like "Twin Turbo" thrown at them. I dout it would have been hard for them to put an NA 300hp engine in it. It doesn't have the same marketing appeal though. Those turbos must be pushing at the most 4 PSI. lol

Read my post above for the specs, knuckle head.
First off, v6? You're an idiot.
Of course they could put a 300hp N\A i6 in it, a more powerful engine has resided in the M3 for years. But the smooth, constant torque of the turbo i6 is much more liveable and driveable than the thrashing the 333hp 3.2l i6 to it's 8000rpm redline.

The "twin turbo" is total marketing, IMO. They could have achieved adequate spool up, better top end power and a much less complicated setup with a single turbo. It's senseless to have twin turbos on an INLINE engine (I don't care if Supras came with it, look what Supra modders did with those twin turbos.) But BMW made this car the way they did so it would slot in where it does, so that's that.

I knew it was an inline 6, but put V6 by typing it so much. Anyway, I knew that BMWs actions should never have been questioned in the first place. BMW does everything right and can do no wrong. I'm sorry.

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: MelikK
debating car performance based on HP somehow reminds me of comparing CPU's based on MHZ alone.

Yeah I could see that... I was thinking it was more like comparing turd sizes... or who could piss higher on the tree...

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: BobDaMenkey

Originally posted by: Soccerman06

10.2:1 compression ratio

Pritty high compression ratio for a turbo.

Its suppose to be $50,000 and $60,000 (inbetween the high end 330i and base M3)

That is a really high compression ratio for a turbo engine. They must not be pushing much boost if it's that high, maybe all of 6lbs, I don't think it could be much more than that. Hence the apperent lack of turbo lag.

IIRC its because they have direct injection that they can run such high compression ratio. Combined with a turbo for every three cylinders (forget what that arrangement is called, not sequential right?), turbo lag should be nada

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: BobDaMenkey

Originally posted by: Soccerman06

10.2:1 compression ratio

Pritty high compression ratio for a turbo.

Its suppose to be $50,000 and $60,000 (inbetween the high end 330i and base M3)

That is a really high compression ratio for a turbo engine. They must not be pushing much boost if it's that high, maybe all of 6lbs, I don't think it could be much more than that. Hence the apperent lack of turbo lag.

IIRC its because they have direct injection that they can run such high compression ratio. Combined with a turbo for every three cylinders (forget what that arrangement is called, not sequential right?), turbo lag should be nada

My speed6 has no turbo lag either... nyah

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: MBrown

Originally posted by: jtvang125
IS350 > 335i C

S4 > 335i > IS350.

QFT... audis/VW's love to make torque form the low end... plus RWD biased quattr and a nice V8

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: Mikey

Originally posted by: MazerRackham
Will the new M3 be 2008 model then? Or will there be a 2007 M3?

2008 MY.

 

[theeedude]

We all know that BMW deliberately held back 335i's performance potential so that it wouldn't compete with the upcoming M3.
If you are going to go through the trouble and expense of putting twin turbos on a 3L engine with DI, at least show more for it than 300hp that the competition has with mainstream NA motors.
I think it's stupid decision. They should have at least exceeded IS350 and G35 numbers with a TT motor.

 

[Hyperlite]

well, the old M3 was 333bhp, so why didn't they just make the 335 like 350hp and the new M3 like 425 or something? i'm sure they could get north of 400hp out of that engine.

 

[mk52]

why are people so horny for HP??

The elise has 190hp out of an i4 and rapes all the cars mentioned in this thread

 

[fs5]

Originally posted by: MelikK
why are people so horny for HP??

The elise has 190hp out of an i4 and rapes all the cars mentioned in this thread

:roll: lets compare road going go karts to luxury coupes.

 

[mk52]

Originally posted by: fs5

Originally posted by: MelikK
why are people so horny for HP??

The elise has 190hp out of an i4 and rapes all the cars mentioned in this thread

:roll: lets compare road going go karts to luxury coupes.

the point was that there are more factors to performance than just HP.

 

[fs5]

Originally posted by: MelikK

Originally posted by: fs5

Originally posted by: MelikK
why are people so horny for HP??

The elise has 190hp out of an i4 and rapes all the cars mentioned in this thread

:roll: lets compare road going go karts to luxury coupes.

the point was that there are more factors to performance than just HP.

Yeah, and in terms of luxury all the other cars in this thread rape the elise. They're different a class of car so why even bother mentioning the elise in this thread?

 

[Tommouse]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: MBrown

Originally posted by: jtvang125
IS350 > 335i C

S4 > 335i > IS350.

QFT... audis/VW's love to make torque form the low end... plus RWD biased quattr and a nice V8

Damn strait! S4 isn't getting any love from anyone now, its the middle child between the A4 and RS4.

I think the new Bimmer is underrated. I'm sure they will just bump the boost and whatnot with their refreshes to keep up the pace. This looks to be more of a marketing/bureaucrat move than a designer/engineer move. Makes me a sad panda

 

[V00DOO]

Originally posted by: senseamp
We all know that BMW deliberately held back 335i's performance potential so that it wouldn't compete with the upcoming M3.
If you are going to go through the trouble and expense of putting twin turbos on a 3L engine with DI, at least show more for it than 300hp that the competition has with mainstream NA motors.
I think it's stupid decision. They should have at least exceeded IS350 and G35 numbers with a TT motor.

I wonder what going to happen to the E92 M3 when some tuners figure out how to tune the 335I turbo to surpass the E92 M3 in permformance with some bolt on?

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: MelikK
debating car performance based on HP somehow reminds me of comparing CPU's based on MHZ alone.

Yeah I could see that... I was thinking it was more like comparing turd sizes... or who could piss higher on the tree...

I bet I could p1ss higher on the tree...

I wouldn't get the 335i Coupe. I'd save more and get the E46 M3

Koing

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: V00DOO

Originally posted by: senseamp
We all know that BMW deliberately held back 335i's performance potential so that it wouldn't compete with the upcoming M3.
If you are going to go through the trouble and expense of putting twin turbos on a 3L engine with DI, at least show more for it than 300hp that the competition has with mainstream NA motors.
I think it's stupid decision. They should have at least exceeded IS350 and G35 numbers with a TT motor.

I wonder what going to happen to the E92 M3 when some tuners figure out how to tune the 335I turbo to surpass the E92 M3 in permformance with some bolt on?

Tuners can make anything go fast but how about their handling? Yes they can make them handle but how much experience do they have in it? Etc etc etc. You do get some fine tuners though. But do people want to take their car to a specialist tuner?

Faster in a straight line won't mean sh!t with the 335i handling compared to an M3's. Apprently the M3 is a monsterous and a fine car to drive from what I have heard. You can get cars to go faster but the M3 can carry 4 adults in relative comfort, put stuff in the boot and you can thrash it about and handles like a dream.

The 335i will be much more tamer and be easier to live with then the M3. BMW probably have a market for this. And yes they could have made it faster but it would have probably taken away from the driving characeristics that they wanted.

Koing

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: MelikK
why are people so horny for HP??

The elise has 190hp out of an i4 and rapes all the cars mentioned in this thread

Well, if you aren't "horny for HP," what's the point of this car over a 330i?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Doboji

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: BobDaMenkey

Originally posted by: Soccerman06

10.2:1 compression ratio

Pritty high compression ratio for a turbo.

Its suppose to be $50,000 and $60,000 (inbetween the high end 330i and base M3)

That is a really high compression ratio for a turbo engine. They must not be pushing much boost if it's that high, maybe all of 6lbs, I don't think it could be much more than that. Hence the apperent lack of turbo lag.

IIRC its because they have direct injection that they can run such high compression ratio. Combined with a turbo for every three cylinders (forget what that arrangement is called, not sequential right?), turbo lag should be nada

My speed6 has no turbo lag either... nyah

My Volvo S70 T5 has plenty of turbo lag. But once it pegs 20psi, it'll sail past your Speed6 like it's standing still.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: senseamp
G35 is going to have 300+ hp NA with 7500 rpm redline, and cost closer to the 325i. 335i needs to put out more HP to justify its pricetag.

BMWs don't need horsepower to justify their pricetag. They have a reputation backed by solid performance.

Besides, there's no way in hell the G35 will even come close to matching the 335's useable powerband or torque.

Not true, VQ has excellent low end torque and a very wide powerband. Add to that a 7500 rpm redline, and you got one hell of an engine. Infiniti has reputation backed by solid performance too, and it's got reliability as well. If BMW didn't need horsepower to justify their pricetag, they would not be turbocharging their I6. Their I6 doesn't scale like the competition's V6's do, so they have to add turbos to keep up in the HP race, with both Infiniti and Lexus coming out with 300 HP+ V6s. I could see how a few years back, BMW could get away with being underpowered because of great interior and exterior design, but those days are gone. We have Bangled up exteriors, weird looking interiors, and i-drive. Nothing really to write home about.
http://www.nissannews.com/multimedia/concept/2007/800px/04_coupe_concept.jpg

The new VQ makes 310hp @ 7500rpm. Sadly, it only makes 217 ft-lbs of torque, and that doesn't show up until 6000rpm.

While the 335i makes 295 ft-lbs of torque @ 1300rpm (that's right, just off idle) and holds it all the way to the top.

Basically BMW has made a smoother motor for a more normal car, and Infiniti has made an attempt at replicating the M3 3.2l, but with a larger engine, less horsepower, and less torque. All in a heavier car. Brilliant.

You must be thinking of some Honda motor, and probably never driven a VQ powered car. VQ made 260 lbft of torque at low RPMs since it came out in 2002 Maxima.
This new motor will only build on that, and add a 7500 rpm redline. What BMW has done is attempt to replicate competitors V6 power using a 3L Inline Turbo, while costing about $10K more and taking a couple step backwards in exterior and interior design. Brilliant.

Oh, you're right, I was thinking about the Honda engine going in the new 350z. I shouldn't have been reading this Honda board.

Learn how horsepower is calculated then get back to me, chief. Fortunately they run through that in the thread I linked.

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: senseamp
G35 is going to have 300+ hp NA with 7500 rpm redline, and cost closer to the 325i. 335i needs to put out more HP to justify its pricetag.

BMWs don't need horsepower to justify their pricetag. They have a reputation backed by solid performance.

Besides, there's no way in hell the G35 will even come close to matching the 335's useable powerband or torque.

Not true, VQ has excellent low end torque and a very wide powerband. Add to that a 7500 rpm redline, and you got one hell of an engine. Infiniti has reputation backed by solid performance too, and it's got reliability as well. If BMW didn't need horsepower to justify their pricetag, they would not be turbocharging their I6. Their I6 doesn't scale like the competition's V6's do, so they have to add turbos to keep up in the HP race, with both Infiniti and Lexus coming out with 300 HP+ V6s. I could see how a few years back, BMW could get away with being underpowered because of great interior and exterior design, but those days are gone. We have Bangled up exteriors, weird looking interiors, and i-drive. Nothing really to write home about.
http://www.nissannews.com/multimedia/concept/2007/800px/04_coupe_concept.jpg

The new VQ makes 310hp @ 7500rpm. Sadly, it only makes 217 ft-lbs of torque, and that doesn't show up until 6000rpm.

While the 335i makes 295 ft-lbs of torque @ 1300rpm (that's right, just off idle) and holds it all the way to the top.

Basically BMW has made a smoother motor for a more normal car, and Infiniti has made an attempt at replicating the M3 3.2l, but with a larger engine, less horsepower, and less torque. All in a heavier car. Brilliant.

You must be thinking of some Honda motor, and probably never driven a VQ powered car. VQ made 260 lbft of torque at low RPMs since it came out in 2002 Maxima.
This new motor will only build on that, and add a 7500 rpm redline. What BMW has done is attempt to replicate competitors V6 power using a 3L Inline Turbo, while costing about $10K more and taking a couple step backwards in exterior and interior design. Brilliant.

Oh, you're right, I was thinking about the Honda engine going in the new 350z. I shouldn't have been reading this Honda board.

Learn how horsepower is calculated then get back to me, chief. Fortunately they run through that in the thread I linked.

power figures on a forum is not official.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: sniperruff
power figures on a forum is not official.

They have official numbers and engine codes.