ECS NFORCE3-A motherboard mini review

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JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
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sempron 3100+ (paris core, 130mm)

bios 250mhz:
2250mhz passes prime95, 166mem, 1T, +3% voltage

clockgen:
2350mhz- passes prime95, 133mem, 1T, +3% voltage, htt=3x
2390- fails prime95, 133mem, 2T, +5% voltage, htt=3x

Is it the cooling (ie: need better hsf), or the memory that's preventing me from reaching 2.4+ ghz?

edit:
i wrote this b4 i saw your reply Zap.

latency (3,3,3,8,2T): set mem=133 and lower latency to the lowest to get me past 2.4+ ghz?

faster cpu offsets speed penalty of slower ram?
 

trevor2k

Member
Oct 14, 2004
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Originally posted by: Zap
Originally posted by: trevor2k
So, sys setup: 2.4Ghz @ 300 FSB

Sempron 2800+ (BA Stepping) - 64 bit enabled
ECS nForce3-a 1.0E Bios (have the f, but haven't flashed yet)

Good job on the high system bus. Clockgen?

Yeah, I use Clockgen. I need to mess some more with it. I backed it off to 2.35Ghz at 2-3-3-11 timings and it seems pretty solid. Haven't done prime95 for a long time or anything, but it went >1hr last night without errors...
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,738
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Originally posted by: trevor2k
Originally posted by: Zap
Originally posted by: trevor2k
So, sys setup: 2.4Ghz @ 300 FSB

Sempron 2800+ (BA Stepping) - 64 bit enabled
ECS nForce3-a 1.0E Bios (have the f, but haven't flashed yet)

Good job on the high system bus. Clockgen?

Yeah, I use Clockgen. I need to mess some more with it. I backed it off to 2.35Ghz at 2-3-3-11 timings and it seems pretty solid. Haven't done prime95 for a long time or anything, but it went >1hr last night without errors...

sounds like the 2800+ and 3100+ o/c to the same level? ie: 2.4ghz

so it looks like the 2800+ fry's special for $80 is a MUCH better value than the $90 3100+ special since the 2800+ special is boxed (comes with hsf) and the 3100+ is bare. so the 3100+ actually cost $100 since you gota spend $10 on a hsf.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
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Originally posted by: JEDI
sempron 3100+ (paris core, 130mm)

faster cpu offsets speed penalty of slower ram?

Yes, faster CPU will offset slower RAM to a degree - who knows how much and it probably differs depending on what software you use on a daily basis.

Your Paris core is probably what's holding you back. I had one briefly and I couldn't get it to run over about 2.2-2.3GHz while on the same motherboard (Epox 8KDA3I) I could run my A64 2800+ at 2.5GHz. Both CPUs are 1.8GHz 130nm cores.

I had purchased one of those Fry's deals on the day after Christmas when the deal first came out (seems almost weekly now). After looking up the core to see what it was, I promptly returned it.

The 2800+ will run cooler and possibly overclock higher, plus the retail box HSF is totally adequate. An added bonus is the possibility that the core has x86-64 (my 2600+ D0 stepping did) and SSE3 with improved memory controller (if you get an E3/E6 stepping).

The 3100+ isn't necessarily a bad deal, just not as good as if it were a Palermo 3100+.

trevor2k you're getting great results out of your setup.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
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yeah, the 3100+ combo isnt bad for $100 (including hsf).

but if i would have known the 2800+ o/c to the same point as the 3100+, then i would have waited till outpost.com restocked the deal and save myself $20 :(

oh well... as it stands right now, it's not worth it to use clockgen just to get 100mhz to 2350mhz. if i can reach 2.4ghz, then i would do it just to say i have a sempron 4000 :) (not worth it to say sempron 3900)

hm..will try mem=133, and lower latency to min and see what happens.

you have a link to the guy who o/c his 3100+ to 275fsb?
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
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My apologies if what I said was misleading. The 275MHz system bus was what someone got with a 2800+ on the NFORCE3-A board using clockgen, not a 3100+.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,738
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voltage +5%
mem=133
2T
cas# latency 3
Ras # to cas# delay 7
Min ras# active time 15
Row precharge time 6

clockgen =2390 Prime95 fails :(

these are the slowest/least values, right?
 

trevor2k

Member
Oct 14, 2004
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jedi, why don't you try cas 3, ras 3, min ras 11, and row 3 according to your post or, in my terms 3-3-3-11.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
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Jedi, don't sweat it too much. You're already getting a higher overclock than I did on the Paris core Sempron 3100+ that I used to have, and I used a "better" overclocker's motherboard too.
 

Ledgem

Junior Member
Feb 5, 2006
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In that Fry's deal the processor doesn't come with a heatsink and fan? I'm looking into buying it as an upgrade for my 5+ year old Athlon system, and while I consider myself pretty well-versed in computers I've never looked into cooling solutions... anyone have a recommendation for just a cheap solution that'd work? I've never overclocked either, don't really have an intention of doing so but you never know... I just don't want to find myself paying $50 for a fan+heatsink. Couldn't find any $10 solutions that Jedi mentioned, either.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,738
126
Originally posted by: trevor2k
jedi, why don't you try cas 3, ras 3, min ras 11, and row 3 according to your post or, in my terms 3-3-3-11.

why would 3-3-3-11 be better than 3-7-6-15 for overclock?
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
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81
Originally posted by: JEDI
why would 3-3-3-11 be better than 3-7-6-15 for overclock?

I don't know. I've never fiddled with memory timings much because besides CAS latency, none of the other stuff seems to do anything as far as I can tell for performance or overclocking. Other people may disagree with me, but if spending an hour fiddling with timings (plus many hours re-running memtest) can get me another 50MHz on the CPU, I'd just as soon give up and do something useful. ;)

Originally posted by: Ledgem
In that Fry's deal the processor doesn't come with a heatsink and fan? ... I just don't want to find myself paying $50 for a fan+heatsink. Couldn't find any $10 solutions that Jedi mentioned, either.

The Semprons run pretty cool. If the 3100+ turns out to be the older Paris core, that's the hottest running Sempron, but still not bad. If used on that motherboard and not overclocked beyond what the BIOS will give you, you probably don't need anything special. Indeed if you want something that will cost you $15 after shipping and is completely overkill for a Sempron: AMD retail box heatpipe HSF. That is the best HSF deal going on in the whole world right now - there's a decent sized thread on Cases and Cooling regarding this unit.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,738
126
whats with all that copper tubing running thru it? watercooled?!
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
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Heatpipes. Typically there is some kind of liquid in there and it is a closed loop system. The better ones have some wicking mechanism.

With "normal" heatsinks, the heat is absorbed by the base and the fins help keep it cool. If you touch the heatsink, it is hotter nearest to the base while the air that the fan blows does most of the work towards the tips of the fins. Imagine a metal spoon in some boiling water. You can still pick up the spoon using the part that is sticking out of the water, but even after you pull it out, for a while the part that was submerged is still too hot to touch.

The heatpipes efficiently transfers the heat from the base closer to the tips of the heatsink. How it works is that in the part of the pipes at the base, the liquid inside is vaporized by the heat. The vapor rises up and causes the whole pipe to become hot. The tips of the pipes get cooled by the fan and the vapor turns into liquid again and gets wicked back to the base to repeat the cycle.

Watercooling works in a similar way because the water retains the heat and the pump moves cool water to the CPU while pushing the hot water to the radiator where a fan can dissipate the heat.

Heatpipes rely on liquids that have a low boiling point plus the wicking action of the inner walls of the heatpipe.

Anyways, someone else can probably explain it better, but rest assured, all else being equal, a heatsink with heatpipes will outperform one without heatpipes and besides keeping it clean just like any other heatsink/fan, there's no maintenance. It'll keep working as long as your CPU keeps producing heat and as long as nothing punctures or folds the heatpipe.
 

hiperco

Member
Feb 25, 2001
33
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Does this MB have SPDIF? And if so, does it come with a bracket and/or does anyone know where to get one?

 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
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ECS site
1 x SPDIF out header

It's just the header and so doesn't come with the rear bracket, and I have no idea where to get one. If you just need coaxial and not optical, it's pretty easy to make your own if you are so inclined.
 

dholmes97

Junior Member
Feb 8, 2006
12
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I'm wanting to build a new computer for $550-$650. Is this mobo with the 2800+ or 3100+ (from Outpost.com) a good candidate for that? I've got a case and a DVD-Burner at home, but that's it. Everything else I'll be buying - HD, Video card, memory, etc. Does it make sense to get this mobo when I don't have an existing AGP card to put in it? I'm under the impression that an equivalent PCI-E card will be cheaper than its AGP counterpart, therefore negating the great savings on the Outpost combos.

Any input/suggestions? In particular, how much would be involved in overclocking beyong 250 FSB? I'm willing to put some time into it, and I'm fairly comfortable assembling computers and fiddling with software/bios, but I don't what to mess with it if it will take a lot of baby-sitting. Maybe just setting the FSB to whatever it can handle and leaving it alone is a good compromise?

I realize this isn't the CPU forum, but is the boxed 2800+ that comes bundled with this mobo a better deal than the oem 3100+, given the $20-$30 savings and my tight budget?

Thanks for any input. This isn't actually my first post, but I can't remember my password for my old id, and I no longer have the email address I used to sign up, so I'm starting over...
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
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If you also need to get a video card as well as motherboard, PCIe is the ONLY choice at this time. Since you mentioned video card, I'll assume you're a gamer. It's definately possible to spend only $550-650 for a gaming rig - here's how...

Start off with the parts that are partially fixed cost, such as case, DVDRW (both of which you already have), RAM (1GB single stick if socket 754, dual channel if socket 939), hard drive, anything else you don't already have (monitor, keyboard?). After all these relatively "fixed" cost items are chosen, then see how much budget you have left. Since video card is priority for a gaming rig and you're going on the cheap, look for the cheapest PCIe overclockable (why not) motherboard and Sempron CPU. Then get the best card with what you have left. Assuming you just need the stuff in the case (no monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc)...

1GB RAM $80
HDD $70 (give or take depending on rebate deals and size)
CPU $70
mobo $70
case (including PSU?)
DVDRW
Geforce 7800GT $270

There's your $550 system. If you go $650, then you may even be able to go socket 939 in a stretch.

Now, this doesn't mean the Fry's deal is bad. If one of the deals (commonly 2800+ and 3100+) was a CPU that you were already planning to get, then $10 more will get the motherboard that you won't use. Very likely you can sell it for a few bucks more than that $10 it cost you. That's a decision for you to make. Now, this 3100+ is likely a Paris core, which is not as good as the Palermo core, so you may want to pass on it alltogether. Newegg has retail box Palermo 3100+ for $80 and $96 right now, difference being the cheaper one is a D0 core based off Winchester and the more expensive one is either E3/E6 core based off Venice with slightly improved memory controller and SSE3. Still, the cheaper one will be 95% as good for 80% cost, roughly.

Well, the bottom line is that if you don't have legacy AGP video cards, then start off with PCIe.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,738
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why single stick 1 gig for 754 instead of dual 512 pc3200? (i have the dual configuration)
 

dholmes97

Junior Member
Feb 8, 2006
12
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Wow, Zap! Your advice is very helpful! Exactly what I was hoping to hear. Yes, I have a decent 19" CRT. I'd like to get a decent LCD some day, but carving $200 out of my ~$600 budget probably isn't worth it right now. I'll need to get a new power supply, because my current one is several years old so I'm assuming it won't be up to par.

Is the 7800GT the best bet in the sub-$300 range right now? This will be great for me. I'm jumping up from a 9600pro, so it's gonna be a major leap. I'm going to have to replay Half-Life2 to enjoy the high rez eye candy that will be possible.

If you care to expound more, what's the benefit of socket 939 over 754? Several years back, I used to track all these details, but I'm an aging gamer with kids now, and I just can't keep up - stuff changes so fast!

 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
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Originally posted by: JEDI
why single stick 1 gig for 754 instead of dual 512 pc3200? (i have the dual configuration)
Socket 754 doesn't do dual channel. Now, you can run a "dual channel kit" in there and it will work fine - still single channel but the whole amount will work, however there is the possibility that you can run lower latencies and/or overclock higher on one stick.

Originally posted by: dholmes97
I'll need to get a new power supply, because my current one is several years old so I'm assuming it won't be up to par.

Is the 7800GT the best bet in the sub-$300 range right now?

If you care to expound more, what's the benefit of socket 939 over 754?
Yeah, new PSU won't hurt. There's actually some really nice quality units available in the $40-60 range. You may as well buy one that has all the "new" plugs on it such as 24 pin ATX and PCIe. I've been recommending the Fortron FSP400-60GLN. It is available from eWiz for around $50 and Newegg for around $70. Too bad eWiz is often out of stock on it, but it's a great power supply for the money. Plenty of other nice ones in that price range - just do a search in Cases & Cooling.

Yes, IMO the 7800GT is the "best" choice at the moment if you can afford a near $300 video card. The reason is that it is closer to the higher end cards in performance (7800GTX, X1800, X1900) but at as low as half the price of the higher end stuff which can cost up to $650 for the best X1900. It also is "enough" performance above the lower end cards that the extra amount is worth it as long as you find a deal on it. Almost always there is some sort of under $300 deal, usually with a rebate but fortunately those have mostly been small considering overall price ($30 or less). Cheapest I've seen them so far is at $265 after rebate, but quite a few in the $270-290 range after rebate. Now, you also may be interested in paying a few bucks more for a "higher end" version because a few manufacturers have been making factory overclocked models. Sure, any of them can be overclocked, but some of these are at nearly 25% overclock beyond stock, and that's guaranteed with a warranty. eVGA seems to make the highest overclocked ones, but BFG and XFX also has some. Sometimes the cost difference between the base 400MHz and overclocked 490MHz is only $20 or so. Just something to think about if the difference is small.

Socket 754 vs 939... subject of endless arguements. Here are the facts, you decide for yourself.

- Socket 939 does dual channel memory while 754 is single channel. Dual channel is of course faster, but...

- Socket 939 can get dual core CPUs if that's what you're wanting in the future.

- Socket 939 usually has higher end motherboards because it's the higher end platform. However, some see that as a minus because with "higher end" comes "higher price." Your choice based on your budget.

- Socket 754 has CPUs ranging from $60 - $400 while socket 939 has CPUs from $165 - $1000. Where they overlap, probably just better to get the socket 939 choice.

The short version: If your budget for CPUs is not quite $165, then go with 754 because at this time socket 754 is the best choice for under the lowest priced 939. If your budget can go up to $165 or higher, get 939.

Besides dual core and dual channel memory, the two are pretty similar. You can even get SLI on socket 754 if you want (but if you spend that much, may as well get 939). You can get PCIe 754 motherboards starting at around $60 and many of the boards are nicely overclockable including the cheap ones, and the Semprons are more than willing to overclock (except for the Paris core 3100+). There's even a Venice core socket 754 CPU at $120, which so far one person has reported an overclock to 3GHz from the default 2GHz!!! About 2-3 others have gotten 2.6GHz and up.

If you do decide on socket 754 with PCIe, do some research to make sure that the board you intend to buy is known to be a decent overclocker because the best CPU won't clock worth $#%@ on a board that is a lame overclocker.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
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Originally posted by: Zap
You may as well buy one that has all the "new" plugs on it such as 24 pin ATX and PCIe. I've been recommending the Fortron FSP400-60GLN. It is available from eWiz for around $50 and Newegg for around $70. Too bad eWiz is often out of stock on it, but it's a great power supply for the money.

eWiz in stock $47
 

dholmes97

Junior Member
Feb 8, 2006
12
0
0
If I decide to find a budget socket 754 mobo, with PCI-E and decent overclocking, is the refurbished BIOSTAR TForce6100 you mentioned in a different thread a good place to start?

Your input is of great help Zap. Thanks!
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
7
81
Yes, from what I've read/heard that board has decent overclocking. There's also a Tforce6100 version (though not on refurb) that "supposedly" might be better for overclocking. Note that I don't have personal experience with either board (but that may change ;) ).
 

wiggyryder

Member
May 25, 2001
92
0
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I'm getting a CPU warning message at POST whenever I push over 225MHz, then it resets back to default 200MHz. Where is the setting in the bios to disable the warning?

CPU clock: ~225MHz
HT: 3x
Mem clock: 166MHz