Question ECO Mode possible for 65W CPUs on AM5?

[Chicken76]

Does anyone have a non-X AM5 CPU that can look in the bios to see if ECO mode setting is available, and if it is does it do anything?
Any ECO Mode info I found was for CPUs ending in X.
On AM4 APUs, you could ECO Mode them from 65W down to 45W, which was useful for a system that you intended to leave running in a corner with a low load.

 

[Gideon]

"Eco mode" is nothing special. It's just a convenience "one click" button for setting 3 PBO values. You should still be able to set the same settings manually via PBO (pictures in the article):

AMD Eco Mode Guide for AM5 - OC3D

Introduction If you’ve been looking at our review of the newest 7000 series of processors from AMD you’ll have noticed two things. Firstly, the performance is truly spectacular, and whilst the motherboards might be priced at a level usually reserved for gold-plated, diamond-encrusted 90″ OLED...

overclock3d.net

PBO has 3 settings:

• PPT (Package Power in Watts),
• TDC (Thermal Design Current in Amps)
• EDC (Electrical Design Current in Amps)

For AM5 these seem to be entered in mW and mA (thus the 1000x bigger scale than AM4)

Setting these values is the same as setting 65W, 105W, 170W "Eco mode":

How to set them varies somewhat depending on the MoBo maker but essentially it boils down to:

1. Find the "Advanced Overclocking" menu, click "Accept"
2. Find PBO settings and set them to "Advanced" / find "PBO Limits land set to "Manual"
3. For 65W set:
   • PPT - 88 000 mW
   • TDC - 75 000 mA
   • EDC - 150 000 mA
4. For 45W It's a bit more complicated as AMD doesn't give exact values )Perhaps one could find the exact numbers when setting "eco mode" it in Ryzen Master?) but interpolating the 65W and 105W ones (from this post) it should be around:
   • PPT - 61 000 mW (this number is straight 1.35x "TDP on the box" and rounded)
   • TDC - 59 000 mA
   • EDC - 130 000 mA
   • Bear in mind, these are my approximations (extrapolated from here).
5. Double check you entered everything correctly (also read the article and take a look at the screenshots)
6. Save and reboot
7. Happy "Eco Mode" usage usage

NB! these values are only for AM5 mobos / CPUs. AM4 values are different (legendary "the Stilt" has them listed here).

Also bare in mind that for 12-16 core parts the 105W values probably are a better sweetspot (that's their one-click configured ECO mode as well)

TL;DR:

There is no offical 45W "Eco mod" form AMD as it only seems to go down to 65W. But extrapolating the actual PBO values (which is the only thing "eco mode" actually changes) The 45W numbers shoud be around PPT: 61W, TDC: 59A EDC: 130A. Feel free to try out different values nearby that work for you.

EDIT:
Added extrapolated 45W numbers.

EDIT2:
Also bear in mind, you could probably get even better results when using the Curve Optimizer to undervolt (without even setting the TDP below 65W):

 

[Chicken76]

@Gideon thank you for the info. Those are indeed for the higher TDP SKUs. My question was for the non-X parts that are already spec-ed at 65W, can you get them lower?

 

[Gideon]

@Gideon thank you for the info. Those are indeed for the higher TDP SKUs. My question was for the non-X parts that are already spec-ed at 65W, can you get them lower?

Sorry for editing the post, last minute. I'll condense the relevant parts out again:

There is no offical 45W "Eco mode" form AMD as it only seems to go down to 65W. But extrapolating the actual PBO values (which is the only thing "eco mode" actually changes) The 45W numbers shoud be around PPT: 61W, TDC: 59A EDC: 130A. Feel free to try out different values nearby that work for you.

So the 45W starting-point settings should be around:

• PPT - 61 000 mW (this is fixed as the number is straight 1.35x "the desired TDP on the box". This is also the actual wattage you'll see in HWinfo at 100% load. The 65W AMD CPUs tend to take ~88W at full load for instance)
• TDC - 59 000 mA
• EDC - 130 000 mA

Thus. The PPT should be 60-61W (depens how you round) for "45W TDP". TDC can be raised if temps are low and performance suffers (e.g. your cooler can handle more). EDC tends to be the limit for short-term single core boost. if the ST turbo frequencies are hit too hard this is the setting to raise (It would be smart to keep all of these well below the 65W values, if you want to benefit from the "45W eco mode" though)

Oh and do check out the Curve Optimizer. It might help you even more than setting the other limits:

Also bear in mind, you could probably get even better results when using the Curve Optimizer to undervolt (without even setting the TDP below 65W):

 

[Chicken76]

@Gideon As far as I understand, the difference between ECO / PPT-TDC-EDC on one side and Curve Optimizer on the other, is that the former is supposed to be validated by AMD, but the latter falls to the customer to verify stability, doesn't it?

 

[CakeMonster]

Related question, how does lowering the temperature limit behave compared to restricting wattage?

 

[Chicken76]

Related question, how does lowering the temperature limit behave compared to restricting wattage?

I'm guessing that lowering the max temperature will cause it to end (or at least tone down) its boost windows sooner.
The wattage limit will mean all/most-core workloads will run at lower frequencies, while single/light-threaded workloads will boost about the same.

 

[Gideon]

@Gideon As far as I understand, the difference between ECO / PPT-TDC-EDC on one side and Curve Optimizer on the other, is that the former is supposed to be validated by AMD, but the latter falls to the customer to verify stability, doesn't it?

That's correct. "Eco Mode" probably is covered/validated by mobo manufacturers and AMD. Undervolting most certainly isn't.

I'm not 100% sure about even manually setting the 3 values. (as there.is the same "Accept Potential Damage" dialog). It should be fine, as you'll be setting them stricter than is standard, but that's not guaranteed.


Unfortunately there is no out of the box 45W ECO Mode forAM5 (while there was indeed one for AM4)


If there is, it should be easily validated by running Ryzen Master. If it exists, you should be able to select it here , but AFAIK there is nothing below 65W for AM5 (Someone with a 65W AM5 processor should validate that claim). If there is, the PPT-TDC-EDC values set by Ryzen Master should be easy to find.

 

[Chicken76]

That's correct. "Eco Mode" probably is covered/validated by mobo manufacturers and AMD. Undervolting most certainly isn't.

I'm not 100% sure about even manually setting the 3 values. (as there.is the same "Accept Potential Damage" dialog). It should be fine, as you'll be setting them stricter than is standard, but that's not guaranteed.

If ECO Mode only sets those 3 variables and we know their values, setting them even without having the ECO preset should be just as stable as stock. When you want to run something headless in a corner for months without having to troubleshoot why it keeps hanging, having it on a 45W (or even 35W) limit is very useful, not to mention quieter.

Unfortunately there is no out of the box 45W ECO Mode forAM5 (while there was indeed one for AM4)

On AM4 I believe the 45W preset was introduced with the APUs (Cezanne). Look here for the configurable TDP line: https://www.amd.com/en/product/14056
But I see now the AM5 APUs that were just released (Phoenix) also have configurable TDPs. Look here for example: https://www.amd.com/en/product/14071
Maybe we need newer BIOSes and someone with one of the 8000 series APUs to check.

 

[StefanR5R]

Also bare in mind that for 12-16 core parts the 105W values probably are a better sweetspot (that's their one-click configured ECO mode as well)

The sweet spot depends on the workload and the user's priorities of course. There is a large gap between 65 W TDP/ 88 W PPT limit and 105 W TDP/ 142 W PPT limit. While the OP talked about 6/ 8/ 12 core CPUs, the use case which was described sounds as even a 16 core CPU could be fitted well within this gap, namely the lower end of this gap!

I don't have AM5 CPUs myself, but a 64-core EPYC, which I use as a 24/7 compute node. I have driven it at 400 W cTDP_hi/ 400 W PPT limit, at default 360 W TDP/ 360 W PPT limit, and also at 320 W cTDP_lo/ 320 W PPT limit. This is a 4× 16 cores CPU with 4× triple IMCs, thus not completely the same as 4× {16 cores + dual IMCs} CPUs. But I have used it with reduced RAM clock at times too, which noticeably shifts some power back from IMCs to cores. In certain lighter numeric workloads but with all 128 threads loaded, the CPU did clock at its peak 3.75 GHz (that's the OPN's hardwired speed cap) at 360 W and with somewhat lower clocks at 320 W. (Edit, of course clocks go way lower than that in really heavy AVX loads.)

So yes, even for 16 core AM5 Zen 4 CPUs an 88 W PPT limit may make a lot of sense in some use cases. And thus, a 61 W PPT limit should likewise be good for 12 core Zen 4 CPUs in quite a few scenarios if the configured memory clock isn't excessive.

________
Foot note: TDP is a rather uninteresting figure as long as it is ≥ PPT limit.

 

[eek2121]

When I benched my 7950X at the 65W setting, it handily beat the 5950X, which ran at 125W TDP. Benchmarks used were CBr23, Geekbench, and Blender.

That was a long time ago. I wish I had the time to bench it again at 45W

As far as OP is concerned, can you even set those values on non-X chips? I seem to remember that you couldn’t, but I am not sure.

Side note: I hope you internet strangers are doing well. My life has been in a nosedive, so I haven’t been very active here. Looking forward to this year’s hardware releases!

 

[In2Photos]

When I benched my 7950X at the 65W setting, it handily beat the 5950X, which ran at 125W TDP. Benchmarks used were CBr23, Geekbench, and Blender.

That was a long time ago. I wish I had the time to bench it again at 45W

As far as OP is concerned, can you even set those values on non-X chips? I seem to remember that you couldn’t, but I am not sure.

Side note: I hope you internet strangers are doing well. My life has been in a nosedive, so I haven’t been very active here. Looking forward to this year’s hardware releases!

I was able to manually set those values on my 7700 non-X with an MSI B650 Edge.

 

[randomhero]

Side note: I hope you internet strangers are doing well. My life has been in a nosedive, so I haven’t been very active here. Looking forward to this year’s hardware releases!

Hope everything will turn right for you.
First half of last year was awful for me, but all ended well.
Best of luck!

 

[DrMrLordX]

If ECO Mode only sets those 3 variables and we know their values, setting them even without having the ECO preset should be just as stable as stock.

Correct. Unlike Curve Optimizer, constraining PPT with a lower value never causes instability. Pretty sure EDC/TDC constraints also won't cause instability.