Ebonics suggested for district

[Tsunami982]

this is just sad... the point of school is to educate people to get them ready for the job market, enabling them to support themselves. if you teach ebonics in a school... it will take away from time teaching english. i know its not a fact but id expect that IN GENERAL most employers would prefer a person who could speak proper english (yeah i know there are some who dont care and that there are exceptions but in general).

 

[TuxDave]

dp

 

[TuxDave]

Ah... I hate starting arguments

 

[piasabird]

What is ebonics. Souds like a bunch of ignorant slang. Maybe everyone should just learn to be a redneck.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: Tsunami982
this is just sad... the point of school is to educate people to get them ready for the job market, enabling them to support themselves. if you teach ebonics in a school... it will take away from time teaching english. i know its not a fact but id expect that IN GENERAL most employers would prefer a person who could speak proper english (yeah i know there are some who dont care and that there are exceptions but in general).

This is true, but i doubt a person would even use these terms in a professional workplace. How many black people do you know that use these terms in a board meeting? How many people of any race do you know that swears and uses profanity at the same rate they do at home or in a party? It is called code switching and everyone does it. How you speak with your family and peers is different than how you speak to authority, write, and speak in the workplace. People know what is acceptable, and no one is going to come in with a gold chain and white t shirt, or sagging their pants at a job where you dress code is business casual.

How people can dismiss the fact is beyond me. Next thing i guess you are going to tell me is the food we eat it not in anyway influenced by the Slave trade. Look at what we call "Soul Food" like the other examples something like this has most of its roots in the Slave trade, this is not something NEW that was just made up from thin air. Same with music.

 

[Starbuck1975]

How can you say the examples - "bogus, cat, dig, hip, and beloved patriot," - Used how they are USED TODAY are NOT rooted in the African language that the example shows?
What you fail to understand (or dont want to understand) is that SOME of what you call "Slang" is and was used by Africans, and Africans Americans for 100's of years and come from AFRICAN words. What is so hard to understand about this.??
"Croissant" and "Frankfurter" - are NOT english words.

We are not talking about the application or use of specific words, and their origin, as most words from the english language are derivatives of words from a variety of other cultures. That goes without saying.

Yet a language is more then simple use of words or their origin...sentence structure, grammar, and the ability to communicate is the essence of language.

For ebonics to be a language, it has to go beyond the use of street slang substitutes for common day words...the Oakland school board and other "academics" have claimed that ebonics is a language, yet they would be hard pressed to assemble a textbook that defines the grammatical basics for how to speak in ebonics.

Again, using street slang substitutes to engage students is utterly ridiculous, and is simply an excuse for tolerating illiteracy in the classroom...incorporating ebonics will not help these students, and is nothing more then a self imposed form of segregation.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: zendari
What else can you expect from California liberals.

Do you blame "liberals" for everything you dont agree with? Stupid kid.

On Topic. This is simply stupid, and im a liberal.

Not everything, and not on all liberals. But this is the state that brings us Barbara Boxer and UC Berkeley.

As well as the other UCs that invent god knows how many things, and then the fact we are huge agriculture center, as well as the little tidbit that overall we end up being the world's 5th largest economy...you'd think that the "liberals' of CA are doing SOMETHING right...

By the way, not everyone is liberal...its split pretty well~ North CA is much liberal and So Cal is much more conservative; though the roads in So Cal suck horribly as are the drivers. That and I think just over ten years ago we had a Republican governer


As for this topic...I don't think ebonics is a real language, but I really don't have an idea. I understand the concept of putting things in terms that we understand...but not everything in life can be explained like that~ often you are going to have to sit down and learn how to think in terms of "Widgets"
I would think to delay that would hurt a student academically

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Motherfuc*er is from Tanzania? That's a stratch. Do a search for it. You'll find many references to the term. Defiitions seem to be fairly consistant. What you don't find are word origins. If you take the component parts you'll see that "fu*k" is germanic. The closest I could find to a word origin for MF were several of references; many claiming early 20th century origins and one dating back to the sicilians in 1300's. Overall it seems to be a uniquely american application of a germanically oriented word.

From the Oxford on-line dictionary:

bogus

? adjective not genuine or true.

? DERIVATIVES bogusly adverb bogusness noun.

? ORIGIN originally US, denoting a machine for making counterfeit money: of unknown origin.

If you really dive into languages you'll find many words that sound alike. That doesn't mean that they are in any way related.

Framers of the Oakland resolution recognized that, when teaching anyone a language or dialect with which they are unfamiliar, it is important to differentiate between understanding and pronunciation. (This consideration appears in later discussion, not in the resolution itself.) For instance, if a child reads "He passed by both of them" as "he pass by bowf uh dem", a teacher must determine whether the child is saying "passed" or "pass", since they are homonyms in AAVE phonology. Appropriate remedial strategies in such a case would be different from effective strategies in the case of an SAE speaker who read "passed" as "pass".

Now that has nothing to do with word origins. That has everything to do with bad english.

Ebonics is not a language.

 

[Zebo]

Is'nt gonna help thier resume one bit, that's fo shizzle.

 

[phantom309]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Is'nt gonna help thier resume one bit, that's fo shizzle.

This is really what it gets down to. Whether Ebonics is a real dialect of English or not (and I think it is) is a moot point. In school kids should learn the skills they'll need to be successful in the world - and the ability to speak clear, standard English is incredibly important. The racial aspect of it doesn't matter much - do a job interview with an accounting firm while speaking in Alabama trailertrash drawl and you won't get hired either.

This issue is about corporate culture, not black or white culture.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: phantom309

Originally posted by: Zebo
Is'nt gonna help thier resume one bit, that's fo shizzle.

This is really what it gets down to. Whether Ebonics is a real dialect of English or not (and I think it is) is a moot point. In school kids should learn the skills they'll need to be successful in the world - and the ability to speak clear, standard English is incredibly important. The racial aspect of it doesn't matter much - do a job interview with an accounting firm while speaking in Alabama trailertrash drawl and you won't get hired either.

This issue is about corporate culture, not black or white culture.

TRUE statement. And like i said, i dont know anyone in their right mind that would speak like this in a job interview, at work, or write this way on a resume. Most people of all races know and have learned "Proper english" by the time they are a teen. We all know this, we also know that few people are slow and some have speech problems. I have a newphew that is now 7 years old. If and when he speaks like this, i DO and WILL correct him. He cannot use terms like "i dont got" in our family at his age. As he gets older and learns to speak, once he knows the rules i will let him speak how ever he wants. If he wants to use terms like "more good" or "i have never seen" that is fine with me as long as he knows the rules of english grammar. A LOT of poeple dont speak proper english. If you want to test you can go HERE and take a grammar test. Most people will NOT be advanced. Most in the forum will probably be average.

As i said, i dont think its a good idea to change the course of the school to fuse in ebonics. BUT to sit and attack another idea just because you dont think its correct is foolish. At this point i doubt that there is any evidence that you can be shown to even give it a chance as being possible.... (Reason: revert to bolded qoute above.) Starbuck1975 if you would have read some of the link it would have showed a lot. The few examples were only 10% of what is on the page, the rest is exactly what you are talking about when describing the "essence of language".

Although I have met many whose reading lvls were sub-standard, I have only met one person in my life that could NOT read. And that was in 1999, he was a guy dressed in punk gear, i filled out a check for him. I cant really comment much on iliteracy.

EDIT: I dont know if you have met or spoken with any African people but the english that they use is VERY similar to what we would call ebonics. Africans that havent ever been to the United States. The way they construct english sentences with african sentence structure is exaclty the way it is done in the US. Can you take a guess why that would be?? Have you ever spoken to a chinese person that did not use plurals? Do you understand why?

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
It's not another language. It's a corruption of proper English. Nothing more, nothing less. To include it in a classroom is to legitimize it and further isolate those who use it from the mainstream of society. In addition, by not emphasizing proper English in the classroom, students who are already one strike down in life will find it that much harder to succeed once they graduate into real life.

Spanglish and Engrish at least have proper footing in other languages. Ebonics is just a made up, apoligist lie.

OMFG, did you at least read the link? - More examples.

* bogus is derived from Hausa boko, meaning deceit or fraud.
* cat is the suffix -kat from Wolof, which denotes a person.
* dig comes from Wolof deg or dega, meaning "to understand/appreciate".
* hip is derived from Wolof hepi, meaning "to be aware of what is going on".
* beloved patriot may come from Wolof honq, meaning red or pink.

How can you say the examples - "bogus, cat, dig, hip, and beloved patriot," - Used how they are USED TODAY are NOT rooted in the African language that the example shows?
What you fail to understand (or dont want to understand) is that SOME of what you call "Slang" is and was used by Africans, and Africans Americans for 100's of years and come from AFRICAN words. What is so hard to understand about this.??


derogatory slang word for "white person," 1967, black slang, of unknown origin, perhaps from late 19c. hunky "East-Central European immigrant," a colloquial shortening of Hungarian. beloved patriot in the sense of "factory hand" is attested from 1946.


"Croissant" and "Frankfurter" - are NOT english words.

"""How is it that virtually every OTHER ethnic group in America has speech and language patterns traceable to their homelands BUT black folks? White rejection of and contempt for AAVE is so tied up with white rejection of and contempt for black people that many of them are unable or unwilling to see the truth about either -- in defiance of all logic and proof to the contrary"""

what part of "NOT A FVCKING LANGUAGE" you didn't you understand? I can understand ebonics... hell i can talk in ebonics, which means it's still english. Theres absolutely zero value in teaching that to kids.

Cuze den we mi't swell learn dem keeds to talk dewn south too :roll


"counterfeit money," 1839, Amer.Eng., apparently from a slang word applied in Ohio in 1827 to a counterfeiter's apparatus. Some trace this to tantrabobus, a late 18c. colloquial Vermont word for any odd-looking object, which may be connected to tantarabobs, recorded as a Devonshire name for the devil. Others trace it to the same source as bogey.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: phantom309

Originally posted by: Zebo
Is'nt gonna help thier resume one bit, that's fo shizzle.

This is really what it gets down to. Whether Ebonics is a real dialect of English or not (and I think it is) is a moot point. In school kids should learn the skills they'll need to be successful in the world - and the ability to speak clear, standard English is incredibly important. The racial aspect of it doesn't matter much - do a job interview with an accounting firm while speaking in Alabama trailertrash drawl and you won't get hired either.

This issue is about corporate culture, not black or white culture.

Yup..but with all that said.. I believe in freedom number one.. Meaning thier school district can spend their money however thier voters/board members decide... After all schools are way watered down today than from when I went and 50 yrs ago many of todays college grads would have a had time..ebonics not going to break an already broken system. As a matter a fact I say hurry it's demise, then people will wise up, vote for vouchers and I won't have to pay as much for my kids school.

 

[Praetorian7]

I say again: EBONICS IS NOT A LANGUAGE!!!

ebonics = a catchall excuse for illiteracy

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: zendari
What else can you expect from California liberals.

Do you blame "liberals" for everything you dont agree with? Stupid kid.

On Topic. This is simply stupid, and im a liberal.

Not everything, and not on all liberals. But this is the state that brings us Barbara Boxer and UC Berkeley.

All the ignorant California bashing, so sad. But that's fine, I liked living there. Probably because the stereotype mostly keeps people like you away.

As a side note, Berkeley may be famously liberal, but if you are interested in the medical or computer fields, you'd have a hard time finding a better school. You don't see Bob Jones University developing one of the best server operating systems in the world, now do you?

 

[Zebo]

Prolly got rejected from Cal and still has a chip on his shoulder.

 

[Cerb]

Hey guys, guess what American English is?
It's a corruption of proper English!

Just because something is not the standard form of the language does not make it not a language.

OTOH, teaching anything but American English in our schools is absurd, much like the Creole example.

For myself, if I wrote, "ye'a'ight," "ain't," or "y'all," in an essay, I'd not do so well, and rightfully so. Because I use such speech in common conversation does not mean it should be at all involved in formal communication.

 

[jackschmittusa]

Any place where it might be acceptable to use Ebonics in a conversation will not be a place where sentence structure, selection of modifier words and nouns, or verb conjugation will be gauged for accuracy anyway. What is there to teach?