Ebonics suggested for district

[jackschmittusa]

link

Incorporating Ebonics into a new school policy that targets black students, the lowest-achieving group in the San Bernardino City Unified School District, may provide students a more well-rounded curriculum, said a local sociologist.

"Ebonics is a different language, it's not slang as many believe,' Texeira said. "For many of these students Ebonics is their language, and it should be considered a foreign language. These students should be taught like other students who speak a foreign language.'

The kindest description that comes to mind about this is that it is pure, unadulterated BS.

Ebonics is not a language that is naturaly occurring, and therefore has no place in the schools. It's been tried before, and it is as foolish now as it was then.

Ebonics is a totally artificial construct serving two functions. It is designed to highlight how different blacks are from others, and as a badge indicating membership in a rebellious group. Yes, I said rebellious. It is rebellion against what is seen to be the "white" social norm. It is a rejection of that norm.

While I am aware that the country has no "official" language (and does not need to certify one either), we do have a common, well defined language that is universally recognised and comprehended throughout the country. It is useful and accepted at all social levels, and in all circumstances people may find themselves in with a need to communicate.

Failure to learn the correct useage of American English will almost certainly result in failure to acheive a happy and productive life in this country. While some in this country have progressed to the point of not instantly judging someone by their dress or general appearance (I remember the days of the hippies lol), almost everyone is quickly judged by the way they speak if the listener finds the speech deficient. Ebonics is not only deficient by most measure, its use connotes defiance as well.

I am also sure that an Ebonics dictionary would be quite short. It would seem quite improbable that one could be eloquintly expressive or scientifically accurate using such an attenuated vocabulary.

Ebonics is used by conscious choice. Far better to point out that it is a choice that will result in negative outcomes rather than assign it false merit.

 

[dahunan]

Gangsta Rap is a form of poetry just like Shakespeare and should be taught to all boys and girls BeeeYOTCH

 

[Starbuck1975]

I heard mention of this on the news the other night, and it left me speechless. Incorporating slang into the classroom is not going to help these students achieve much of anything, and it will only further distance these students from their peers from other parts of the country.

The intent of this policy is to encourage, stimulate or otherwise motivate black teenagers to pay attention in school...let us assume for a moment that this policy achieves this goal, and it results in more black students applying for and attending college...I cannot imagine any respectable university in this country allowing its students to submit essays, projects or other requirements in ebonics.

Similarly, I cannot imagine ebonics within the context of a corporate board room, doctor's office, law firm or any other white collar profession.

Texeira suggested that including Ebonics in the program would be beneficial for students. Ebonics, a dialect of American English that is spoken by many blacks throughout the country, was recognized as a separate language in 1996 by the Oakland school board.

The Oakland school board recognizes ebonics as a seperate language...well then it must be official. :roll:

"I'm afraid that now that we have this the Hispanic community, our largest population, will say, 'We want something for us.' Next we'll have the Asian community and the Jewish community (asking for their own programs). When will it end?'

Exactly...this is nothing less then self imposed segregation...I wonder what Martin Luther King, Jr. would have to say about the very principle of ebonics.

The goal of the district's policy is to improve black students' academic performance by keeping them interested in school. Compared with other racial groups in the district, black students go to college the least and have the most dropouts and suspensions.

Perhaps the school board should be engaging the parents...they are part of the problem to begin with.

 

[charrison]

I guess they want to lowest performing kids to do even worse. IF you want to kids to do well in school raise your expections, not lower them.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: charrison
I guess they want to lowest performing kids to do even worse. IF you want to kids to do well in school raise your expections, not lower them.

Exactly.

Intellectually I have no problem with people having a different culture and language than that of the majority. Only speak Spanish, refuse to learn proper English, whatever, no skin off my back. But the problem is than an inability to communicate with the majority of a country is a huge problem. I'm not sure we can ban that sort of behavior, but at the very least we shouldn't be encouraging it in schools. Teaching students in such a way that they can't really function properly in society is doing them a disservice. It's really no better than not teaching them math, or any other critical skill.

As a side note, it's really amazing how much smoother things go when you learn to effectivly communicate in a society. Even going to England, things go much easier when you stop asking people where the "subway" station is or why you didn't get the "fries" you ordered

 

[Kadarin]

This was a ridiculous idea 10 years ago when it first came up, and it continues to be ridiculous today. Whoever is suggesting this should not only be fired, but should also be whacked over the head with a cast iron frypan.

 

[dmcowen674]

Ebonics and the Bible and hand them a diploma. :thumbsup:

 

[zendari]

What else can you expect from California liberals.

 

[beyoku]

Is there anyone in this thread that thinks Creole is NOT a language? Is there anyone in this forum that thinks Patois or Creole is THE SAME as French? I too thought the idea was very stupid in 1997....but i researched instead of just spouting my mouth off. Some of these words are so mainstream we ALL use them today....and since english is a "bastard language" some words were brought in from other languages. Some of the terms we all used in today come from african terms. examples from what i know:

English term : Whats up?
African term from Egypt : Ho-tsep (Hot-tsep)
English - Motherf*cker
African term from Tanzania - Mu-faka (Moo-Fauka)
Sounds similar? Both sound similar phonetic wise, and have similar meanings in relation to english words. I DARE you to click the link.:roll:

Ebonics -- (African American Vernacular English) AVE has its roots in the trans-Atlantic African slave trade. Distinctive patterns of language usage among African slaves and, later, African Americans arose out of the need for multicultural populations of African captives to communicate among themselves, and with their captors, in a hostile and alien environment. Crammed together in holding pens on the West African coast and chained together during the Middle Passage, these captives, many of them already multi-lingual speakers of dialects of Wolof, Twi, Hausa, Yoruba, Dogon, Akan, Kimbundu, Bambara and other languages, developed pidgins ? simplified mixtures of two or more languages. Over time in the Americas, some of these pidgins became fully developed creole languages. Significant numbers of African Americans still speak some of these creole languages, notably Gullah on the Sea Islands of South Carolina and Georgia.

Try learning something.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: zendari
What else can you expect from California liberals.

Do you blame "liberals" for everything you dont agree with? Stupid kid.

On Topic. This is simply stupid, and im a liberal.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: zendari
What else can you expect from California liberals.

Do you blame "liberals" for everything you dont agree with? Stupid kid.

On Topic. This is simply stupid, and im a liberal.

He/She is not talking about Liberals, they're talking about California Liberals.
Sad to say they make most other liberals look like fvcking psycopaths.

I do not believe ebonics is a real language, its a slang coming from traditional American English. (For those of you who havent been to the UK, we do speak and write a slightly different language.)

But I do agree that these kids are screwed up enough to warrent remedial english until they can graduate with the same standards as regular kids.
I dont think we need any special interest groups in the world of remedial education.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: beyoku
Is there anyone in this thread that thinks Creole is NOT a language? Is there anyone in this forum that thinks Patois or Creole is THE SAME as French? I too thought the idea was very stupid in 1997....but i researched instead of just spouting my mouth off. Some of these words are so mainstream we ALL use them today....and since english is a "bastard language" some words were brought in from other languages. Some of the terms we all used in today come from african terms. examples from what i know:

English term : Whats up?
African term from Egypt : Ho-tsep (Hot-tsep)
English - Motherf*cker
African term from Tanzania - Mu-faka (Moo-Fauka)
Sounds similar? Both sound similar phonetic wise, and have similar meanings in relation to english words. I DARE you to click the link.:roll:

Ebonics -- (African American Vernacular English) AVE has its roots in the trans-Atlantic African slave trade. Distinctive patterns of language usage among African slaves and, later, African Americans arose out of the need for multicultural populations of African captives to communicate among themselves, and with their captors, in a hostile and alien environment. Crammed together in holding pens on the West African coast and chained together during the Middle Passage, these captives, many of them already multi-lingual speakers of dialects of Wolof, Twi, Hausa, Yoruba, Dogon, Akan, Kimbundu, Bambara and other languages, developed pidgins ? simplified mixtures of two or more languages. Over time in the Americas, some of these pidgins became fully developed creole languages. Significant numbers of African Americans still speak some of these creole languages, notably Gullah on the Sea Islands of South Carolina and Georgia.

Try learning something.

Do schools teach in Creole?

 

[Moonbeam]

Don't forget that to the insane the sane look crazy.

 

[beyoku]

Do schools teach in Creole?




Not that i know of. I really didnt make any suggestions or give comment to the OP. I posted regarding "Ebonics" in general. To read the definition and not grant it ANY legitimacy is the issue that i wanted to address.

OTOH - I would NOT support changing school policy to incorporate ebonics. BUT i would support TEACHERS to take it upon THEMSELVES to speak in a manner that ALL students could understand. This should be used at the teachers discretion and not flaged across entire schools. Most students know how to speak "Proper English" but when that kid is with his peers he will speak what he knows. If you check the link or read the words that i BOLDED you should be able to at least understand the "why and how" this could be spoken at home as well. This is NOT really something that is written, its more spoken, i can speak in "Ebonics" but i wouldnt write a post in a forum, my book, a letter, or a resume using those terms and phrases. Teachers should do whatever helps the kids to learn.

When i taught 9th graders at an alternative high school i once used a known petty drug dealer in the class to describe the process of the rise and fall of stock. On one hand you had - "droughts" "double ups" "floods" - / othe hand - "Bull, bear," "tape painting" "sell offs" "rally" IPO's etc. Within 10 minutes - These kids had a basic concept of HOW the stock market works. I have worked as a broker and it has taken hours to explain basic concepts to middle income adults!

Does this means that i condone the kid being a drug dealer? NO, does this mean that we should incorporate drug examples into the school system? - NO, what it showed was people in THAT class could i dentify with the concept of a bag of weed VS. a "Widget" is this a good thing? I dont know, but they DID learn about the market in 10 Minutes, AND i probably used "Ebonics" LOL.

 

[Stas]

Those who speak Ebonics simply don't know English. And they are not going to learn it until they want something more than welfare, until they want to achieve something that will make them respectable (NOT 20' golden rims and a ball of weed). Being successful is not just a white thing. They need somebody to show them that hating white people does not do them any good, and, therefore, being an engineer, a professor or a scientist does not automatically make them traitors of their race. Instead of doing that, America-hating liberals are teaching them how not to be a successful and contributing part of the society. I am speechless.

 

[Starbuck1975]

and since english is a "bastard language" some words were brought in from other languages. Some of the terms we all used in today come from african terms. examples from what i know:

Latin is the basis for many European languages, and even the basis for many english words, but it is a dead language in that no one speaks it. Similarly, most languages have derivations in the form of dialects, that have cultural or regional dynamics. My family speaks a dialect of Italian, specific to the poor rural farming villages that my grandparents immigrated from...if one of my family members were to speak this dialect in Rome or Milan, the more educated urban class would essentially dismiss them as the Italian equivalent of uneducated rednecks. Ebonics may be a dialect, but it is grounded on the illiterate application of the English language.

Ebonics -- (African American Vernacular English) AVE has its roots in the trans-Atlantic African slave trade. Distinctive patterns of language usage among African slaves and, later, African Americans arose out of the need for multicultural populations of African captives to communicate among themselves, and with their captors, in a hostile and alien environment.

Ebonics is an excuse to recognize and otherwise allow the use of illiterate street slang in the classroom and nothing more...the language that these kids are emulating, which they are picking up from the streets, has absolutely no relation to the Creole dialect...while some have attempted to ground ebonics in African culture, thereby giving it some semblance of credibility, it is utter nonsense.

Poor grammar, a lack of adult role models, high crime communities and a culture of denial does not a language make.

 

[Warthog912]

Originally posted by: beyoku
Do schools teach in Creole?




Not that i know of. I really didnt make any suggestions or give comment to the OP. I posted regarding "Ebonics" in general. To read the definition and not grant it ANY legitimacy is the issue that i wanted to address.

OTOH - I would NOT support changing school policy to incorporate ebonics. BUT i would support TEACHERS to take it upon THEMSELVES to speak in a manner that ALL students could understand. This should be used at the teachers discretion and not flaged across entire schools. Most students know how to speak "Proper English" but when that kid is with his peers he will speak what he knows. If you check the link or read the words that i BOLDED you should be able to at least understand the "why and how" this could be spoken at home as well. This is NOT really something that is written, its more spoken, i can speak in "Ebonics" but i wouldnt write a post in a forum, my book, a letter, or a resume using those terms and phrases. Teachers should do whatever helps the kids to learn.

When i taught 9th graders at an alternative high school i once used a known petty drug dealer in the class to describe the process of the rise and fall of stock. On one hand you had - "droughts" "double ups" "floods" - / othe hand - "Bull, bear," "tape painting" "sell offs" "rally" IPO's etc. Within 10 minutes - These kids had a basic concept of HOW the stock market works. I have worked as a broker and it has taken hours to explain basic concepts to middle income adults!

Does this means that i condone the kid being a drug dealer? NO, does this mean that we should incorporate drug examples into the school system? - NO, what it showed was people in THAT class could i dentify with the concept of a bag of weed VS. a "Widget" is this a good thing? I dont know, but they DID learn about the market in 10 Minutes, AND i probably used "Ebonics" LOL.

interesting post, interesting topic.

While I don't believe Ebonics should be taught in school, I do believe it could be used to "bridge" communication between certain communities which refuse to accept "English" without modifications. Interesting read above, and you learn something everyday.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: zendari
What else can you expect from California liberals.

Do you blame "liberals" for everything you dont agree with? Stupid kid.

On Topic. This is simply stupid, and im a liberal.

Not everything, and not on all liberals. But this is the state that brings us Barbara Boxer and UC Berkeley.

 

[Praetorian7]

I'm sure this will be super productive; especially when these students take some form of standardized testing and don't see answers such as "Don't be pushing me into no jive".

The whole subject of ebonics is ridiculous.

Ebonics = street slang

 

[slimrhcp]

Originally posted by: Praetorian7
I'm sure this will be super productive; especially when these students take some form of standardized testing and don't see answers such as "Don't be pushing me into no jive".

The whole subject of ebonics is ridiculous.

Ebonics = street slang

I concur, yo.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

It's not another language. It's a corruption of proper English. Nothing more, nothing less. To include it in a classroom is to legitimize it and further isolate those who use it from the mainstream of society. In addition, by not emphasizing proper English in the classroom, students who are already one strike down in life will find it that much harder to succeed once they graduate into real life.

Spanglish and Engrish at least have proper footing in other languages. Ebonics is just a made up, apoligist lie.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
It's not another language. It's a corruption of proper English. Nothing more, nothing less. To include it in a classroom is to legitimize it and further isolate those who use it from the mainstream of society. In addition, by not emphasizing proper English in the classroom, students who are already one strike down in life will find it that much harder to succeed once they graduate into real life.

Spanglish and Engrish at least have proper footing in other languages. Ebonics is just a made up, apoligist lie.

OMFG, did you at least read the link? - More examples.

* bogus is derived from Hausa boko, meaning deceit or fraud.
* cat is the suffix -kat from Wolof, which denotes a person.
* dig comes from Wolof deg or dega, meaning "to understand/appreciate".
* hip is derived from Wolof hepi, meaning "to be aware of what is going on".
* beloved patriot may come from Wolof honq, meaning red or pink.

How can you say the examples - "bogus, cat, dig, hip, and beloved patriot," - Used how they are USED TODAY are NOT rooted in the African language that the example shows?
What you fail to understand (or dont want to understand) is that SOME of what you call "Slang" is and was used by Africans, and Africans Americans for 100's of years and come from AFRICAN words. What is so hard to understand about this.??
"Croissant" and "Frankfurter" - are NOT english words.

"""How is it that virtually every OTHER ethnic group in America has speech and language patterns traceable to their homelands BUT black folks? White rejection of and contempt for AAVE is so tied up with white rejection of and contempt for black people that many of them are unable or unwilling to see the truth about either -- in defiance of all logic and proof to the contrary"""

 

[RedCOMET]

If ebonics is a language and people speak thats fine. If the a student is in a school were english is taught, then mayb the student needs to take a ESL (English as a Second Language) class to catch up on proper english and then be put back into the regular class rotations.

kids that speak spanish/german/ chinese/ turkish(??) still need to learn english in the school district they attend to get the eduaction that said district provides.

IF parents want there kids to learn ebonics, home school them or send them off to a private school ( or charter school) that uses ebonics to teach the kid. Althought i doubt some of the parents who children primarily speak ebonocs can afford those option. And if they could, the kids would be disadvantaged b/c people won't know what they be talkin' aboot.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
It's not another language. It's a corruption of proper English. Nothing more, nothing less. To include it in a classroom is to legitimize it and further isolate those who use it from the mainstream of society. In addition, by not emphasizing proper English in the classroom, students who are already one strike down in life will find it that much harder to succeed once they graduate into real life.

Spanglish and Engrish at least have proper footing in other languages. Ebonics is just a made up, apoligist lie.

OMFG, did you at least read the link? - More examples.

* bogus is derived from Hausa boko, meaning deceit or fraud.
* cat is the suffix -kat from Wolof, which denotes a person.
* dig comes from Wolof deg or dega, meaning "to understand/appreciate".
* hip is derived from Wolof hepi, meaning "to be aware of what is going on".
* beloved patriot may come from Wolof honq, meaning red or pink.

How can you say the examples - "bogus, cat, dig, hip, and beloved patriot," - Used how they are USED TODAY are NOT rooted in the African language that the example shows?
What you fail to understand (or dont want to understand) is that SOME of what you call "Slang" is and was used by Africans, and Africans Americans for 100's of years and come from AFRICAN words. What is so hard to understand about this.??
"Croissant" and "Frankfurter" - are NOT english words.

"""How is it that virtually every OTHER ethnic group in America has speech and language patterns traceable to their homelands BUT black folks? White rejection of and contempt for AAVE is so tied up with white rejection of and contempt for black people that many of them are unable or unwilling to see the truth about either -- in defiance of all logic and proof to the contrary"""

Except those words have been replaced....

* bogus ----> bullshvt
* cat ----> The "N" word
* dig ----> Word!
* hip ----> Straight
* beloved patriot ----> Crack'ass Cracker

 

[jackschmittusa]

Even if you can actually trace a few words to African origin (and not just sounding alike), it does not make Ebonics a legitimate language. It is wholly artificial.