Ebay-Xbox Scams Part II

[SuperCyrix]

<< If I sell a picture of a JUMBO JET! Would you think you'd
actually get a Jumbo Jet? If you did, does that make a criminal? >>



If you are selling the Jumbo Jet picture with the intention of fooling some poor sap into thinking that it is a actual Jumbo Jet, then it's wrong and unethical. If you are selling the picture of the Jumbo Jet because there are serious people out there who wants a picture of that jumbo jet, then I suspect you would reimburst whoever mistakingly bid on your picture for Millions of $. There is nothing wrong with that, however, that is hardly the case that is going on in ebay. Nobody is selling boxes, pictures, or whatever because they think people actually want those items, they are selling for the sole purpose of duping some poor sap out of alot of money.

If you put up an auction for a jumbo jet picture and somebody bid millions of $$ on it, I don't know if it's legal or not for you to accept it, but I do know that there would be some legal action taking place once he realizes you sent him a picture after he paid $3,000,000.

 

[tm37]

OK now if someone is willing to bid OR buy something without reading the discription, then THEY are at fault THERE IS NO FRAUD.

NONE, ZERO, NADA, ZIP!

Yes there are some morons out there but the government can't nor should make the laws to protect the lowest common denominator!

It's kinda like the phrase NICELY EQUIPTED that we would have on our new car Ads for Cherokkes when I was selling jeeps. That car had AIR and power brakes/ Steering. HOWEVER most people would think cruise, power windows, tilt steering. Nicely equipted is a very subjective term. There was no fraud there.

These AUCTIONS STATE QUITE CLEARLY THAT THEY DO NOT CONTAIN A XBOX!

How can that be fraud? I run an auction for a picture of an Xbox, You bid enough that you could have bought the Xbox, digtal camera, printer and paper!! As long as the person states this is A PICTURE OF THE XBOX!!!

when you ask the government to step in when clearly someone was just LAZY and did not read the discription (or title for that matter) then you are really saying that you don't want to have to take responsiblity for your actions!

Do i think these people listing these auctions are scam artists? Not really. They may not have the highest morals BUT what they are doing is PERFECTLY LEGAL!

 

[SuperCyrix]

tm37,

I've stated before, I'm not contesting rather or not this is legal. What I'm saying over and over again is that doing something like this is wrong. I can't believe people are defending this. People seriously don't see something wrong with this?

 

[tm37]

<< tm37,

I've stated before, I'm not contesting rather or not this is legal. What I'm saying over and over again is that doing something like this is wrong. I can't believe people are defending this. People seriously don't see something wrong with this? >>



Ok you are correct. There is something wrong with it.

The fact that people will make blind purchases without reading the title is wrong.
The fact that somepeople actually think that if a item is realted to what i want it is illegal.

The pictures are bogus, The people that listed them are trying to make a quick buck on the phenomin that is XBOX. Because you feel you shouldn't have to READ what you are buying is of no fault but the person bidding. I would think people are smart enough to know better but. obviously that isn't the case.

I personally would not list something like that. I may list the box, but not the picture! I would insure that the person buying UNDERSTOOD WHAT THEY WERE BUYING!

The people listing these items are not dishonest just trying to capitalize on a idea that One person made work!

How many people list thing that they buy in hotdeals and sell them for 2-3 times what they payed isn't that dishonest?

If I can produce something for a nickel and sell it for a few hindred bucks EVERY COMPANY IN THE WORLD WOULD DO IT!

 

[SuperCyrix]

<< Because you feel you shouldn't have
to READ what you are buying is of no fault but the person bidding. I would think people are smart enough to know better but. obviously that isn't the case. >>



Ok, so you're saying people who are dumb deserves what they get. Gotcha, I'm just glade you don't run this world.



<< The people listing these items are not dishonest just trying to capitalize on a idea that One person made work! >>



It's dishonest. They're trying to pass off a picture as a $300 item. No bull about there being clear warnings that the item is a picture, the bottom line is the seller put up the auction in hope of somebody bidding on it as an X-box. For that matter, the title is misleading. "X-box picture" can easily be mistaken as an auction of an X-box with pictures of the item. Some of those items have an reserve or starting price of $100, do you seriously think the seller is not trying to pass this off as an X-box? I think what the sellers are trying to do is very clear. They're trying to con other out of their money, that's dishonest.



<< How many people list thing that they buy in hotdeals and sell them for 2-3 times what they payed isn't that dishonest? >>



What does this have to do with passing off a box as the actual item? The buyer is getting what he thinks he's getting. He's not being duped. You're seriouly confusing the issue here.

 

[ultimatebob]

I think that I'm going go for some REAL money, and try a sell a BRAND NEW 2002 FORD THUNDERBIRD picture! I should be able to get a quick $30K on that, right?

Besides, you have to give style points to this guy, who's selling an XBOX picture that mysteriously looks like a PlayStation 2:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1300365776

 

[CZroe]

OK, I'm getting serious now. With starting bids ~$50 and Buy it Now prices of ~$350, it definately is meant to make the buyer think that it is something that it is not (Therefore, fraud)
I'm going to FS/FT forum w/ this to let the "Trollhunters" know... Perhaps they can get a *fake* ID & "buy" all the pictures that get over $75 or so for $5,000,000 to protect the buyers. My friends are already sacrificing their own eBay IDs to buy & send pictures of money to the sellers

BTW: You will not be making real money if we see your Thunderbird

 

[cremator]

I just killed my ebay account but I bought 4 because I don't want some kids crying because all they got is a pic. Im going to send a pic of money also. that asshole will pay.

 

[cremator]

I'm also going to act like an idiot and give him negitave feedback. I'm going to say he shipped the real XBox and all I wanted is the pic. Heh. Bye Bye E-Bay account. Oh well. Christmas is around the corner, I remember not getting what I wanted. So I'll save the parents money (as much as I can) and I'll risk loosing my E-Bay account over this punk.

 

[Thegonagle]

I bet Ebay will understand so you don't lose your account, and you can reply to negative feedbacks. Just say he was about to send you a picture of a product, so you sent him a picture of money, tit for tat. You use can my above picture. I deposited all that money yesterday after I took the pic, but in a week or two, I could take pictures of any reasonable amount of money for anyone who asks.

 

[Jzero]

SuperCyrix, if you agree that what these people are doing is not illegal, and we all seem to agree that it's shady and unethical, why is this discussion continuing thus? What they are doing is NOT illegal, but if Ebay feels it's wrong, it's THEIR responsibility to shut it down.



<<

<< Because you feel you shouldn't have
to READ what you are buying is of no fault but the person bidding. I would think people are smart enough to know better but. obviously that isn't the case. >>



Ok, so you're saying people who are dumb deserves what they get. Gotcha, I'm just glade you don't run this world. >>



Our government wastes millions each year to protect IDIOTS. MORONS. COMPLETE DUMBA55ES. Some tart without an ounce of common sense spills coffee all over herself, sues McDonald's, WASTES taxpayer money on the court battle, and then WINS!
We have to have seat belt and helmet laws because people are too stupid to figure out to wear them themselves.
We have to have warning labels on EVERYTHING because people are SO stupid and refuse to take responsibility for their OWN actions, and somehow our court systems have given societal approval to supreme stupidity by upholding their nonsense cases.
Companies have to RECALL baby bath seats b/c the seats could tip over and the child could drown.
NEVER MIND the fact that you shouldn't need Dr. Spock to tell you not to leave an INFANT UNATTENDED IN A BATHTUB, yet these companies have to do this to protect themselves from people who are apparently lacking enough common sense even to be parents!

Idiots who are not "retarded" in any way deserve no special protection from us, the government, or anyone else. The bottom line is that if there weren't people stupid enough to bid on these auctions, they would simply disappear--the scammers would realize no profit will come out of this except to Ebay from their listing fees.
But the idiots exist and preserve the scammers.
As I quoted previously: "A fool and his money are soon parted."



<< It's dishonest. They're trying to pass off a picture as a $300 item. No bull about there being clear warnings that the item is a picture, the bottom line is the seller put up the auction in hope of somebody bidding on it as an X-box. For that matter, the title is misleading. "X-box picture" can easily be mistaken as an auction of an X-box with pictures of the item. Some of those items have an reserve or starting price of $100, do you seriously think the seller is not trying to pass this off as an X-box? I think what the sellers are trying to do is very clear. They're trying to con other out of their money, that's dishonest. >>


Not gonna argue with you on this--it's true.
Still not illegal. Sorry.
As I also said before, I imagine were you to drag the seller to civil court saying he listed the item in bad faith, you'd get your money back pretty damn quick, and probably be able to snag some damages while you're at it. I'm almost tempted to see if someone in NJ is selling one, just for the pleasure of trying it.



<< How many people list thing that they buy in hotdeals and sell them for 2-3 times what they payed isn't that dishonest? >>



What does this have to do with passing off a box as the actual item? The buyer is getting what he thinks he's getting. He's not being duped. You're seriouly confusing the issue here.[/i] >>



Again, what you *THOUGHT* you were getting and what it *SAID* you were getting are vastly different.
If I were able to claim fraud b/c I didn't get what I thought I ordered, I could go to a car dealership, order a low-end car and then call the dealer a fraud b/c I thought it was the high-end that i ordered?

Sorry. No protection for the stupid. Not on my watch, at least. This is Ebay's job to regulate. It's not illegal, it's definitely unethical, but people are dumb enough to fall for it.

 

[yakko]

There was no fraud commited here. The person starting the auction is not shady or unethical. He clearly stated what you were getting if you won. A person is not unethical because you do not pay attention to what you are buying. If that were the case I can think of a couple shady and unethical businesses because I have not been paying attention on every single purchase. The price he set was fair because that is what he wanted for it. If you think it is too much to pay you don't buy it. That is how the world works.


cremator,

What you did is wrong. Your eBay account should be cancelled because of the fraud you are commiting. If you have no intention of paying for the item do not bid on it.

 

[SuperCyrix]

Jzero,


I never made any claim of this being legal or not. As a matter of fact, I've repeatily stated that "I don't know if this is legal or not." If you didn't catch that earlier, will there it is again. In my first post, I used the word "fraud", and I perceive fraud as something dishonest in an attempt to con an individual out of their money. Apparently, there was a legal definition for the word "fraud" so I just dropped the word "fraud"
from then on.

The issue is not about this being legal or not. This is an issue of right or wrong. In this case, what the sellers are doing is wrong. What shocks me is that people defend the action of the seller for the two reasons of

1.) Idiots deserve what is coming to them
2.) There is nothing illegal about it, therefore, there is nothing wrong with what the seller is doing.

In response to 1 in which people claim idiots deserve what is coming to them,

there are several things wrong with this. First of all, the seller's targets are universal and not restricted to idiots. Is it right for a young kid who mowed 6 months of his/her neighbors lawn to be swindled out of his or her money? What about people who can't read or write English that well? Do they deserve to be conned? Now assuming that the bidder is an idiot, do they deserve to be swindled out of their money? You seem to be arguing that we should pay no special attention to protect them, that's fine an dandy if people don't want to spend the time to protect them, but that doesn't mean they should be the subject of a cruel hoax. Again, there's a difference here. You are under no obligation to protect idiots and you don't have to. What you're not realizing is that your unwillingness to protect them doesn't justify the action of the seller. Nobody is asking you to protect them, this is an issue of right or wrong and your willingness to participate does not justify idiot's as deserving targets who has it coming to them. Again, I'm saying that what the seller is doing is wrong and idiots don't deserve what is being done to them. Your unwillingness to protect them is not an issue here, nobody is asking you to protect them.




<< Again, what you *THOUGHT* you were getting and what it *SAID* you were getting are vastly different.
If I were able to claim fraud b/c I didn't get what I thought I ordered, I could go to a car dealership, order a low-end car and then call the
dealer a fraud b/c I thought it was the high-end that i ordered? >>



Again you missed the point. They buyer thought he was getting a Xbox, but he's not. He's getting a picture. You think you are getting a car and you are getting a car. You are disappointed by the performance of your car but you did indeed get a car which is what you thought you got. The ability of the car fail short of your expectation but exaggerating specs is an acceptable business practice. If you want to compare what is happening ebay directly, then instead of getting a car, you would have gotten a bicycle. Do you see the difference here? When somebody buys something from the forsale forum, he's getting exactly what he think he's getting. The hardware might perform short of his expectations but he did get the exact same hardware he thinks he purchased. If he raises the price and sale it to somebody else, that has nothing to do with our situation. It's an entirely different issue.

 

[MustangSVT]

<< So many idiots, so little time >>




sigh... such a great quote, brings tears to my eyes.. :frown:

 

[jcuadrado]

Some human beings are just downright evil....and those that defend them...are just the same in my book...

WHAT COMES AROUND COMES AROUND 3 FOLD my friends...remember one day when you say "WHY IS THIS HAPPENING TO ME"...it's because of the evil things you forget you did in the past...

my worthless .02.

-jc

 

[Jzero]

<< What shocks me is that people defend the action of the seller for the two reasons of

1.) Idiots deserve what is coming to them
2.) There is nothing illegal about it, therefore, there is nothing wrong with what the seller is doing. >>



I believe only Yakko has said that it's not wrong.



<< Is it right for a young kid who mowed 6 months of his/her neighbors lawn to be swindled out of his or her money? >>


A bid on Ebay represents a legal and binding contract. A kid who lacks the responsibility to participate in an auction should not be participating. If they have to learn this lesson the hard way; so be it.



<< What about people who can't read or write English that well? >>


Then look it up. If you went to a Mexican auction site and put in a $35000p bid on "Pintura de un Microsoft X-Box. Eso es sola una pintura de un Microsoft X-Box!" I'd hope you'd find out what a pintura de un X-Box was before you bought it. I was swindled many times in Mexico because of my lack of command of Spanish. C'est la vie.
That's exactly why I don't bid on auctions that aren't in English.



<< Now assuming that the bidder is an idiot, do they deserve to be swindled out of their money? >>


Yes. See previous references to Benjamin Franklin.



<< Again, I'm saying that what the seller is doing is wrong and idiots don't deserve what is being done to them. >>


And you're half-right. The sellers are jerks. The idiots do deserve what's coming to them. Maybe that'll learn 'em.



<< Again you missed the point. They buyer thought he was getting a Xbox, but he's not. He's getting a picture. You think you are getting a car and you are getting a car. You are disappointed by the performance of your car but you did indeed get a car which is what you thought you got. The ability of the car fail short of your expectation but exaggerating specs is an acceptable business practice. If you want to compare what is happening ebay directly, then instead of getting a car, you would have gotten a bicycle. Do you see the difference here? When somebody buys something from the forsale forum, he's getting exactly what he think he's getting. The hardware might perform short of his expectations but he did get the exact same hardware he thinks he purchased. If he raises the price and sale it to somebody else, that has nothing to do with our situation. It's an entirely different issue. >>



I can't imagine how you can't grasp this. You're talking like the Hooters waitress who won a Toy Yoda and sued b/c she thought she won a Toyota.

The buyer THOUGHT he was getting an X-Box despite OBVIOUS and REPEATED items in the description stating otherwise.
You DON'T walk into a car dealership buying a car CLEARLY stated as one thing and then bitch b/c you got something else.
If you bought a FORD THUNDERBIRD BICYCLE if such a thing existed, YOU would be the idiot for expecting a T-Bird when you got a bike, and YOU would deserve everything coming to you for it.
On the FS/FT forum, if I'm selling a Celeron 300A@450MHz, and it's clearly stated as such, and you buy it thinking you're getting a 450MHz Celeron, it's NOT a misrepresentation, you would be the idiot, and again, you would be deserving of everything that comes to you as a result.

The bottom line:
Read the auction. Read it carefully. If you don't, you suffer the consequences. People are out there to screw you. Understand that and be careful. If you don't, you suffer the consequences.

 

[SuperCyrix]

<< I can't imagine how you can't grasp this >>



I can't imagine how you can't grasp this. You can't seem to make a samilar comparison here.



<< If you bought a FORD THUNDERBIRD BICYCLE if such a thing existed, YOU would be the idiot for expecting a T-Bird when you got a bike, and YOU would deserve everything coming to you for it. >>



If you want to make a comparison, then do it right. I'm not calling YOU and idiot, but for the sake of argument, I'm going to mimic the exact situtation happening on Ebay and place Ford as the greedy con-artist and make YOU the idiot. Again, I'm not insulting you but this is the little story I made up in my mind and placed myself in the shoe of the idiot when I first debated this issue in my mind.

If Ford offers YOU an Ford Thunderbird via email for $5,000 and then latter on at the bottom of the email it says this is a bicycle, but everything else about the email seems to suggest that it's a car. It's got numerous pictures of the car dotted all over the email. The title of the email says For Sale Ford Thunderbird. And lets assume for awhile that YOU are an idiot that has never in YOUR life heard about the bicycle and didn't catch the bicycle part at the bottom of the email because you were sold by the title and all the pictures.



<< Just like the auction here with the misleading title and xbox pictures >>





Let's say that Ford emailed YOU because they knew YOU are an idiot and they can sneak that bicycle part right by YOU and get YOU to pay $5,000 for a $100 bicycle. YOU having never heard of a Thunderbid Bicycle decided this was too good of a deal to pass up and paid Ford $5,000.



<< Just like the auction, FORD has target you because they knew you are an idiot. In the auction, the seller is obviously targeting idiots. >>



You proceed to paypal Ford $5,000 and discover a few days latter a Thunderbird Bicyle has arrived at your door.



<< In the ebay auction, the bidders never thought that anyone would post a picture of an XBOX for sale and missed the product discription because they were sold by the title and pictures. Like the Ebay auction, You never thought Ford sold a bicycle also called an Thunderbird and was sold by the email title and all the fancy pictures in the email. >>



Again, I'm not calling you an idiot, this is just my attempt to place me or anyone else reading it in the place of the bidder. I'm not going to debate any further with you on rather or not idiots deserve to be taken for everything they've got. I'm just asking you to read the story, lower your IQ for awhile and place yourself in the spot of the idiot. Ethics can not be taught or forced down anyones throat. I believe ethics comes from a person's life experience and based on what he experiences he will deem what is right and wrong.

 

[SuperCyrix]

Just one last thing before I let this die



<< Then look it up. If you went to a Mexican auction site and put in a $35000p bid on "Pintura de un Microsoft X-Box. Eso es sola una pintura de un Microsoft X-Box!" I'd hope
you'd find out what a pintura de un X-Box was before you bought it. I was swindled many times in Mexico because of my lack of command of Spanish. C'est la vie.
That's exactly why I don't bid on auctions that aren't in English. >>



Like I said earlier, standards of ethics comes from personal experience.
In your case you, it seems you deem that you deserved to be swindled out of your money in Mexico the first time around. Would you still feel the same if you were taken for 100X more money in Mexico?

 

[yakko]

<< Just one last thing before I let this die



<< Then look it up. If you went to a Mexican auction site and put in a $35000p bid on "Pintura de un Microsoft X-Box. Eso es sola una pintura de un Microsoft X-Box!" I'd hope
you'd find out what a pintura de un X-Box was before you bought it. I was swindled many times in Mexico because of my lack of command of Spanish. C'est la vie.
That's exactly why I don't bid on auctions that aren't in English. >>



Like I said earlier, standards of ethics comes from personal experience.
In your case you, it seems you deem that you deserved to be swindled out of your money in Mexico the first time around. Would you still feel the same if you were taken for 100X more money in Mexico? >>

He was not swindled though. He failed to find out what he was bidding on. If you fail to read or do not understand what the description is then it is your fault for not getting what you expect. It is not the sellers fault if he was clear on what you were getting.

 

[Jzero]

<< If you want to make a comparison, then do it right. I'm not calling YOU and idiot, but for the sake of argument, I'm going to mimic the exact situtation happening on Ebay and place Ford as the greedy con-artist and make YOU the idiot. Again, I'm not insulting you but this is the little story I made up in my mind and placed myself in the shoe of the idiot when I first debated this issue in my mind. >>


Agreed and I'm glad you realize I wasn't calling you an idiot either, it was a theoretical "you" not directly "you."

Anyway...how is it that my analogy is wrong while yours isn't? I don't think you're being very fair. If we're going to compare apples to oranges, so be it, but I think a theoretical auction for "FORD THUNDERBIRD bicycle" is far closer than a direct e-mail with some fine-print at the bottom. While that's doubly-shady, you should still read the fine print. Always. My mother always taught me "If it's too good to be true, it probably is. Always look for the catch."
This is also not a mail sent directly to one idiot or another. The auction is there and the idiots come voluntarily. However, I get Spam mails on a daily basis asking me to "SIGN UP NOW AND GET A FREE TOOLKIT!" and the fine print says by signing up I'm signing up for some subscription and agree to be billed for it. No different. If you're a sucker, prepare to be screwed. If I'm a sucker, yes, I deserve it.

If you are not mentally handicapped in some way or are a child, and you are gullible enough to be taken by titles, pictures and shiny objects, then you are a target market and you are eligible to suffer the consequences.
What are we arguing about here? It's not illegal. It's not right. Those who fell for it, however, got what they deserved. If they didn't learn a valuable lesson this time (a steal at $400), then they deserve to get screwed again.



<< In your case you, it seems you deem that you deserved to be swindled out of your money in Mexico the first time around. Would you still feel the same if you were taken for 100X more money in Mexico? >>



Absolutely, 100%. The garden-variety Mexican street vendor in tourist traps like Tijuana and Cancun will swindle you every chance they get. As with an auction, the price is not set in stone. The vendor is willing to take a reasonable price for his item, but if you're dumb enough to pay many times that price, he's not going to say no, and he's not going to give you a peseta back when you find what you just bought around the corner for 10% of the cost. It's not like the guy STOLE my money, I told him I'd give him xxx for his item, grossly overestimating the cost and he said "si." My fault, not his, and I only have myself to blame for things like that.

If you enter any type of transaction, if you don't know every detail, and you don't know the true face value and you're unwilling to do more than read the title and look at the pictures, that's your fault. Life's a dog sometimes.

 

[cremator]

I'm not comitting fraud. He is. Even though he stated. I don't care what you say,if you condone him you a selfcentered person.

 

[Jzero]

<< I'm not comitting fraud. He is. Even though he stated. I don't care what you say,if you condone him you a selfcentered person. >>



LOL. Tell that to a judge if it ever gets that far. I respect that you're being a vigilante and attempting to help prevent unscrupulous behavior, but at least understand that what you're doing crosses the legal boundary into fraud territory. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[kranky]

Jzero wrote: << If you enter any type of transaction, if you don't know every detail, and you don't know the true face value and you're unwilling to do more than read the title and look at the pictures, that's your fault. Life's a dog sometimes. >>

In the Jzero view of the world, it would take two months to make a deal on FS/FT.

FS: Windows XP, retail version

Interested people better remember to ask these questions...
Is it the official Microsoft retail version?
Is it the version that is sold in the US?
Is there any restriction on upgrading?
Was it ever registered?
Is it the English version?
Is it on a CD?
Does the CD have any scratches?
Was the CD ever in a fire?
Is the CD in one piece?
Is the CD recorded in the standard ISO format that would play on a standard CD-ROM drive?
Is there any writing on the CD that would affect the ability to read from it?
Does the CD come with all the files that are included in the version I could buy at a major retailer?

Now I do the deal, only to find out that the CD has a bullet hole through it. Oops, forgot to ask about that, so I guess I'm the dummy.

 

[Jzero]

Don't be ridiculous, Kranky. Just know that if you have a question, ask it BEFORE you bid on it, and if you don't like some aspect of the deal, don't bid expecting the seller to accommodate you after-the-fact. Read the description. The seller's only bound to include what's described.

Let's take a case in point.
I just ordered a Sun external SCSI CD-ROM off Ebay.
All the auction says is it's a Sun Ext SCSI CD-ROM, it powers on, it ejects, it comes with a caddy, and that it's being sold as-is.

That's it. I have no right to expect it to include a power cord, SCSI cable, owner's manual, Ultra5000, nothing.
You get what it says you get. If you think what it says should include something ELSE, you better ask first and bid later.

 

[cremator]

My plan worked.
Dear James Michael Phillips (mike_p@charter.net),


The auction for which you were a participating bidder:

1299991093 - BRAND NEW XBOX picture FREE SHIPPING!!

has been determined to be in violation of eBay's listing policies. As a
result, neither you or the seller are required to complete this transaction.


You can review our listing policies at the following URL:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-list.html


If you have questions about this matter, you may contact eBay by replying
to this email (ended@ebay.com). Be sure to include our original email
correspondence with your inquiry.


Regards,
Nigil (ended@ebay.com)
eBay



I got 4 of these since I won 4. Im just glad I saved someone money.