Ebay problem

[Muse]

I posted a thread in this forum almost two months ago concerning a problem I had on eBay: Thread titled EBay problem [Edited to go to the right thread on 6/27/06 ! ]

People suggested how I might deal with this. Some posters said I really am obligated to leave less than positive feedback if I'm getting screwed by a seller. So, in that spirit, I went to eBay today and left feedback for this seller for the 8 items I purchased on 4/2/06, none of which turned out to be as represented.

These were 8 DVD's, 6 of them represented as "Mint" and 2 of them represented as "New."

The "New" ones turned out to be obviously used. The "Mint" ones were in every case less than mint. In the listings the seller said the DVD's and cases were "mint." The ones not represented as new all had partially torn off rental labels on the case, and I had to meticulously remove the remains with naphtha, my fingernails, tissue, etc.

3 of the DVD's had scratch patterns on the read side suggesting usage of a DVD cleaning device. Two of them wouldn't play or play properly in my DVD deck or either of my PC DVD readers.

I left neutral feedback for the 4 disks that had labels on the cases and left negative feedback for the 4 that:

1. were not new but supposed to be new (2 of them).
2. were scratched all over and unplayable in my players (2 of them).

I immediately got an email from the seller saying I'm a so and so for not doing as he said and returning the bad DVD's. He never said anything of the sort. In fact, he ignored my last 2 emails asking him what he was willing to do and he didn't return either of my phone calls. I immediately answered his emails telling him he'd ignored my last two emails and all my phone calls, telling him he shouldn't lie. He'd obviously already left me 8 negative feedbacks - one for each item, saying the following:

"Sellers Beware! Poor communicator-False Accusations-Attacks feedback-Stay clear!"

Now, I figure a seller is not entitled to just crap on me with negative feedback because I just left him negative (or neutral) feedback. He also sent me 4 emails that are official eBay offerings or mutual feedback retractions. Those emails say the feedback will remain (those slanders) but they won't count against my feedback score if I agree to the mutual retractions. That still stinks, of course.

What are my options here?

 

[Muse]

I just did an online chat session with eBay support. The guy sent me to a page where I can basically apply for a feedback dispute resolution where the guy's feedback can be erased, I gather. I don't think I should accept the seller's mutual feedback withdrawal offer. It's little short of blackmail.

 

[dbk]

Depends on how much you value your feedback...

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: ornament
Depends on how much you value your feedback...

I do value it. It was 100%, all positive, around 60 items.

I think it's nasty if you have to be afraid to leave even the most slimey sellers nothing but positive feedback because you have to fear them crapping all over you by leaving you negative feedback.

 

[John]

If only eBay worked as efficiently as Heatware.......

IMHO work thru the dispute resolution and try to get them removed from your record.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: John
If only eBay worked as efficiently as Heatware.......

IMHO work thru the dispute resolution and try to get them removed from your record.

Thanks. That's exactly what I'm going to do. I just did an online chat at Ebay and the support guy sent me to the page. I'm getting tired tonight, but tomorrow morning I'll check out that page and initiate an application to have that feedback expunged.

 

[TwinkleToes77]

1 negative wont matter... something similiar happened to me.. and i left a neutral feedback for the seller and they retaliated and left a negative feedback saying basically to beware of me and im a scammer.. its the only negative i have to this day and its never effected any of my other purchases.

 

[KarenMarie]

Leave factual and calm responses to his feedback.

Anyone reading what happened will see it was not your fault and that the feedback was retalitory.

 

[Muse]

The seller is obviously going to offer to replace DVD's at this point and ask for retractions. I really don't want to send disks back to him at this point. He ignored me the whole time until I left the negative and neutral feedbacks. Meantime, I got one of the unplayable disks to play in my DVD player by putting it in boiling water as suggested by threads at DVDTalk. It freezes 15 seconds into the final credits, but I can live with that. One DVD still doesn't play, but I figure I can bring it to Hollywood Video and maybe they will run it through their machine and it will play.

I don't want to deal with this sleeze-ball any more. He blew it already with me, but I know he shouldn't be allowed to slander me in retaliation for something he really brought on himself.

 

[PurdueRy]

Link to feedback?

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Leave factual and calm responses to his feedback.

Anyone reading what happened will see it was not your fault and that the feedback was retalitory.

I already left the feedback. It's factual. I figure people who see the negative things he said about me won't see what I said about him unless they do a lot of poking around, possibly. And who will do that?

Here's the feedback I left:

Neutral Says "Mint", listing said disk/case mint, but case had partial rental sticker.

Negative Scratched & UNPLAYABLE. Seller doesn't return calls or emails.

Negative DVD listed as "New" (see title above) but it was very obviously used

Negative Scratched & UNPLAYABLE. Seller doesn't return calls or emails.

Neutral Scratched, had only partially removed rental sticker on case.

Neutral Says "Mint", listing said disk/case mint, but case had partial rental sticker.

Neutral Says "Mint", listing said disk/case mint, but case had partial rental sticker.

Negative DVD listed as "New" (see title above) but it was very obviously used

 

[Muse]

Here's what I left for him:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...ms=25&page=2&frompage=-1&iid=-1&de=off

Here's what he left for me:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=wattsup%21

My ebay handle is:
wattsup!

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TwinkleToes77
1 negative wont matter... something similiar happened to me.. and i left a neutral feedback for the seller and they retaliated and left a negative feedback saying basically to beware of me and im a scammer.. its the only negative i have to this day and its never effected any of my other purchases.

One is a lot less than 8, and that's what he left me. Possibly, you can get that piece of negative feedback you got expunged -- if it hasn't been "too long," I don't know. Ebay policies can be complex and their way of dealing with stuff can be somewhat daunting, is my experience.


Thanks for all your responses. It's nice to have some moral support!

 

[PurdueRy]

Dude that's crap, he even claims in his retalitory marks that they were advertised as rentals...which they weren't. Definitely follow through with ebay and get them to remove the false claims!

 

[bctbct]

Most people that read your feedback will realize that you are giving the real story. Dont worry about it. I would try to get his removed, but I would not do a mutual feedback removal out of principle.


In th future you might want to try using paypal CC. Sellers know that if they scam you, they will lose. I wont buy from people that dont accept it.

 

[Trikat]

I doubt you will get those negative feedback removed. eBay is extremely slack in their customer service and really hates to get their hands dirty with anything. They gave me the run around for the negative I received. There are too many cases where it is extremely easy to see who is right and who is wrong, but eBay still refuses to budge.

I'm pretty tempted to message the eBay seller and see what the deal is with him selling rental dvds listed as mint and even NEW!

If you can't get those negs removed I suggest you report this guy to the BBB or some govenment agency and see what happens. Too bad that he will probably just change his name and start selling again if he gets shut down.

Also I saw he might be lying. As you have said he ignored your emails. Well i'm guessing he also ignored some other buyer's emails, but denies it:

AVOID AT ALL COSTS! No reply despite multiple attempts to contact seller.
Buyer bradb ( 85) Jun-25-06 01:28 9134519568
Reply by pipemandvd: All emails responded to-maybe you should check SPAM folder more closely Jun-25-06 03:08

I'm pretty sure that message sent through eBay will not be put in the spam folder. If it is the email provider is stupid or the user set his filters wrong. Regardless all messages sent via eBay will be in the eBay inbox.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: bctbct
Most people that read your feedback will realize that you are giving the real story. Dont worry about it. I would try to get his removed, but I would not do a mutual feedback removal out of principle.


In th future you might want to try using paypal CC. Sellers know that if they scam you, they will lose. I wont buy from people that dont accept it.

The fact is that all his listings said (in the middle section) that he accepted Paypal, and that was my expectation. I only found out after all the auctions had ended that he'd tacked on a line at the end of each posting saying that he would not accept Paypal:

"I know that paypal is mentioned as being accepted above. However, due to paypal's verification process which can take a week or more, paypal will not be accepted for this transaction. Thanks..."

It was strange. He said that there was some kind of snafu regarding Paypal, but I couldn't get the gist of it. It may well be that he'd had runins with Paypal and they'd blackballed him. I had no choice at that point but to either send him a money order or personal check, and I did the latter. Although the auctions all ended 04/02/06, I didn't get the box until 05/10/06. I was OK with that, I wasn't in a hurry as long as the DVD's were OK, but they were not.

Normally, I prefer to pay through Paypal. First preference is by credit card and if the seller isn't set up to accept that, I'll pay him through Paypal drawing on my checking account.

I agree, that in this circumstance a mutual withdrawal is BS, and I'll pursue having his feedback removed.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy
Dude that's crap, he even claims in his retalitory marks that they were advertised as rentals...which they weren't. Definitely follow through with ebay and get them to remove the false claims!

Exactly. He claims that his DVD's were advertised as rentals, but there was nothing about that in his listings. I could have guessed that they were, but he didn't say they were anywhere. Anyway, when he says they are "Mint" in disk and case and especially when he says they are "New" I have a right to expectations. His postings said:

"The case and the disc are in mint condition."

Honestly, I only posted feedback for the guy because I thought it was my duty to do so. I had no expectations that it would do me any good. Now I have another hassle to deal with, but I figure I have to stick to principles. I'll pursue the eBay grievance process and hope to have his feedback removed.

 

[Muse]

The seller sent me another email claiming that he responded to my last email of 05/31/06 on the next day, 06/01/06. He says he asked me to send him the two scratched disks that would not play and that he would replace them.

I did not get that email. I just searched through the bulk folder of my ISP (over 1100 junk emails) and his wasn't in there. I had to check that to make sure.

He tells me that I should have sent him another email after my 5/31 email before posting bad feedback, that he commonly does not check his phone messages and his answering machine states that he prefers email as a means of communication with buyers. I did hear that in the message (3 times, since I left 3 messages), however his listings say:

"I am committed on giving quality products coupled with fast shipping. You can bid with confidence. If you have any questions and want to talk with me directly, please email me and I will forward to you my phone number so that you can contact me."

I took that to mean he would call me back, which he did not and he hadn't answered my no-nonesense email of 5/31.

His last email (last night) says he will replace bad disks but now only on the condition that I agree to a mutual retraction of feedback. My response follows.

:As I indicated in my last email, I will still accept a return, but now, there
:is the additional requirement that you complete the mutual feedback
:withdrawls that I have sent. Once those are complete, we can pick up where we left off
:with you sending in the discs for return.
:
:Let me know...

My feedback was factual and honest. Yours was not. I will pursue having your illegitimate feedback removed with eBay.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Muse
The seller sent me another email claiming that he responded to my last email of 05/31/06 on the next day, 06/01/06. He says he asked me to send him the two scratched disks that would not play and that he would replace them.

I did not get that email. I just searched through the bulk folder of my ISP (over 1100 junk emails) and his wasn't in there. I had to check that to make sure.

He tells me that I should have sent him another email after my 5/31 email before posting bad feedback, that he commonly does not check his phone messages and his answering machine states that he prefers email as a means of communication with buyers. I did hear that in the message (3 times, since I left 3 messages), however his listings say:

"I am committed on giving quality products coupled with fast shipping. You can bid with confidence. If you have any questions and want to talk with me directly, please email me and I will forward to you my phone number so that you can contact me."

I took that to mean he would call me back, which he did not and he hadn't answered my no-nonesense email of 5/31.

His last email (last night) says he will replace bad disks but now only on the condition that I agree to a mutual retraction of feedback. My response follows.

:As I indicated in my last email, I will still accept a return, but now, there
:is the additional requirement that you complete the mutual feedback
:withdrawls that I have sent. Once those are complete, we can pick up where we left off
:with you sending in the discs for return.
:
:Let me know...

My feedback was factual and honest. Yours was not. I will pursue having your illegitimate feedback removed with eBay.

Good for you man. If I was buying from you I could tell you are a trustworthy seller even with the blatently obvious bad feedback from him

 

[bctbct]

Hold your ground, I have given bad feedback to scammers and it sucks but I would rather stop tham from scamming the next guy. :thumbsup:

 

[DrPizza]

This reinforces my belief that feedback is almost meaningless... It's only people like you who give it some meaning. Try to imagine how many other people may have gone through the exact same problem with this person (which is probably why he can't accept paypal now) but who decided to retract their feedback because they didn't want the retaliatory negative feedback.

 

[DrPizza]

btw, good luck with holding your ground. Too bad you can't simply sue for slander (or can you??)
Any of the local law students want to comment?

It'd be awesome if someone (a real lawyer) would simply send a letter to the guy threatening a suit if he didn't remove his retailatory negative feedback. (Super awesome if they did it pro bono)

 

[foghorn67]

I figure people have reasons for not accepting Paypal, I avoid those people.

 

[chowderhead]

negative feedback for a buyer account is pretty harmless except for the ego thing. Really, it doesn't matter because you are still free to bid/bin and buy things. I personally wouldn't give in ... take that feedback as a badge of honor and reply to them as honestly as you want.
It looks like you decoupled this account from your selling account which is good. If you haven't decoupled your account and plan to start selling things in the future, I would advise you start a new seller account to prevent retalitory feedback from affecting your sales.
Good luck.