Ebay Advice about a dispute

[DAWeinG]

I posted this description in my auction. However when you list certain items on ebay, they have default description and pictures for some items so you don't have to go through the hassle of typing in the specifications and such. The winning bidder of the auction claims that I have deceived them by taking out the lens and the memory card. The memory card problem is not an issue since nowhere in the listing does it mention a memory card and also I don't believe Canon bundles these high-end cameras with memory cards. The box does not state that the camera comes with the memory card. However the buyer pointed out that in my description, or rather ebay's default description, it gives some lens specifications (I highlighted it in bold). He points out that this is the type of lens it comes with. However this was not a kit, just the body. Any advice? Here is his original email:

"OK Buddy, You have some explaining to do. It is now 9:00 p.m. on Thursday and UPS just delivered the camera I purchased from you for my wife. She opened it in front of our whole family while we were having our Christmas and the entire lense and memory card were missing. Your description clearly describes the lense specifications and no where in your ad do you state that this camera is a body only and unoperational. I have done business on e-bay for around 10 years and have never encountered deception such as this. I have sent my son to Walmart this evening at 9:30 p.m. to try and find the missing parts and will expect the cost to be refunded to paypal immediatly upon my determination of the cost of missing parts. I expect a call within the next 2 days or I will be taking this matter to the next level."


This is the auction description:

This is an auction for a BRAND NEW, NEVER OPENED, NEVER USED, CANON EOS DIGITAL REBEL XT BLACK BODY Camera with original box, manuals, instructions, and CDs. This item is guaranteed to ship by Christmas. Shipping and handling will be $20 shipped and insured by UPS Ground. I can ship UPS Next Day upon request for an additional $20. I accept paypal, moneyo rders, and checks.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Dec-12-05 at 14:49:32 PST, seller added the following information:

Comes with a Canon 1 year warranty


Additional Information about Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT 8 Megapixel
Portions of this page Copyright 1997 - 2005 CNET Channel. All rights reserved.

Product Description
For convenience, ease of use and no-compromise SLR performance, look no further than the EOS Digital Rebel XT. Featuring Canon's Digital Trinity - an 8.0 Megapixel CMOS sensor, Canon's own DIGIC II Image Processor and compatibility with over 50 EF Lenses-the new Digital Rebel XT has an all new lightweight and compact body, improved performance across the board and the easiest operation in its class, simplifying complex tasks and ensuring the perfect shot every time. With intuitive simplicity, powerful performance and unprecedented affordability, the Rebel XT is the EOS digital camera for everyone.


Details
Dimensions (WxDxH): 12.7 cm x 6.4 cm x 9.4 cm
Weight: 485 g
Additional Features: histogram display



Lens Features
Optical Sensor Type: CMOS
Optical Sensor Size: 14.8 x 22.2mm
Maximum Focal Length: 55 mm, 85 mm
Minimum Focal Length: 17 mm, 18 mm
Display: LCD display - TFT active matrix - 1.8" - color



Flash Features
Flash Type: Pop-up flash
Red Eye Reduction: Yes


Link to auction

 

[KarenMarie]

link to auction.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
link to auction.

Request granted I suppose it would have been easier just to link the auction in the first place. See OP.

 

[daveymark]

Either refund his money entirely upon return of the camera (you pay shipping) or reimburse him for the lens

next time pay attention to your listings

edit: If I were the seller, I might explain the situation, then offer a full refund or something like half reimbursement towards the lens, or I would send him the lens if I could find it for a cheapp enough price. If you refund/return, don't forget to dispute the auction and state you both agreed not to complete the transaction so you get your FVF back

 

[KarenMarie]

ok..i just looked at the auction. i wanted to see exactly what the buyer was looking at.

you need to apologize to the buyer and tell him that you will refund his money on receipt of the returned camera. or let him buy the parts and give him a partial refund.

 

[Leper Messiah]

this is def. on you my friend.

 

[mugs]

Yeah... obviously you didn't intentionally mislead him, but it would appear to me that the camera comes with a lens. He's right, you're wrong.

 

[DAWeinG]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Can anyone link me to the exact lens that the description is referring to? I'm an SLR noob and I'm having a hard time googling it. Thanks.

 

[doze]

Dam dude you got a good price for that camera on ebay, but you could have listed it a bit better although the description says camera body you didn't specify no lens included so it could go either way. But the guy should have emailed you to make sure it comes with the lens if he was spending that much $$$. As far as the memory card goes he's just trying to get something free out of you. If you wanna be nice you can offer to pay for half of a lens price otherwise you'll probably get negative feedback.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: DAWeinG
I posted this description in my auction. However when you list certain items on ebay, they have default description and pictures for some items so you don't have to go through the hassle of typing in the specifications and such. The winning bidder of the auction claims that I have deceived them by taking out the lens and the memory card. The memory card problem is not an issue since nowhere in the listing does it mention a memory card and also I don't believe Canon bundles these high-end cameras with memory cards. The box does not state that the camera comes with the memory card. However the buyer pointed out that in my description, or rather ebay's default description, it gives some lens specifications (I highlighted it in bold). He points out that this is the type of lens it comes with. However this was not a kit, just the body. Any advice? Here is his original email:

"OK Buddy, You have some explaining to do. It is now 9:00 p.m. on Thursday and UPS just delivered the camera I purchased from you for my wife. She opened it in front of our whole family while we were having our Christmas and the entire lense and memory card were missing. Your description clearly describes the lense specifications and no where in your ad do you state that this camera is a body only and unoperational. I have done business on e-bay for around 10 years and have never encountered deception such as this. I have sent my son to Walmart this evening at 9:30 p.m. to try and find the missing parts and will expect the cost to be refunded to paypal immediatly upon my determination of the cost of missing parts. I expect a call within the next 2 days or I will be taking this matter to the next level."


This is the auction description:

This is an auction for a BRAND NEW, NEVER OPENED, NEVER USED, CANON EOS DIGITAL REBEL XT BLACK BODY Camera with original box, manuals, instructions, and CDs. This item is guaranteed to ship by Christmas. Shipping and handling will be $20 shipped and insured by UPS Ground. I can ship UPS Next Day upon request for an additional $20. I accept paypal, moneyo rders, and checks.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Dec-12-05 at 14:49:32 PST, seller added the following information:

Comes with a Canon 1 year warranty


Additional Information about Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT 8 Megapixel
Portions of this page Copyright 1997 - 2005 CNET Channel. All rights reserved.

Product Description
For convenience, ease of use and no-compromise SLR performance, look no further than the EOS Digital Rebel XT. Featuring Canon's Digital Trinity - an 8.0 Megapixel CMOS sensor, Canon's own DIGIC II Image Processor and compatibility with over 50 EF Lenses-the new Digital Rebel XT has an all new lightweight and compact body, improved performance across the board and the easiest operation in its class, simplifying complex tasks and ensuring the perfect shot every time. With intuitive simplicity, powerful performance and unprecedented affordability, the Rebel XT is the EOS digital camera for everyone.


Details
Dimensions (WxDxH): 12.7 cm x 6.4 cm x 9.4 cm
Weight: 485 g
Additional Features: histogram display



Lens Features
Optical Sensor Type: CMOS
Optical Sensor Size: 14.8 x 22.2mm
Maximum Focal Length: 55 mm, 85 mm
Minimum Focal Length: 17 mm, 18 mm
Display: LCD display - TFT active matrix - 1.8" - color



Flash Features
Flash Type: Pop-up flash
Red Eye Reduction: Yes


Link to auction

Anyone advertising "dSLR body' is only offering the body of the camera. This is not a new thing, i mean SLRs have been around for years.

As far as the Lens thing, nowhere in there does it mention anything about a lens. The specs are for the sensor in the camera not the kit lens (18-55mm 3.5 5.6 yade yada).

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: doze
Dam dude you got a good price for that camera on ebay, but you could have listed it a bit better although the description says camera body you didn't specify no lens included so it could go either way. But the guy should have emailed you to make sure it comes with the lens if he was spending that much $$$. As far as the memory card goes he's just trying to get something free out of you. If you wanna be nice you can offer to pay for half of a lens price otherwise you'll probably get negative feedback.

Everyone always says the buyer should have e-mailed... it's easy to say that after the fact, when a problem has occurred. It's not always forseeable ahead of time though.

Regarding the memory card, I don't see anything in the auction about a memory card, so if the camera doesn't normally come with one, hold your ground on that.

 

[saahmed]

I think he should just return the item and you give him a full refund. Also, the kit that comes with the lens, camera, and I think 32mb card is $999 at my store if that helps, but probably more expensive at places like Best Buy. So, if you cover his cost of those parts it might be quite expensive.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: saahmed
I think he should just return the item and you give him a full refund. Also, the kit that comes with the lens, camera, and I think 32mb card is $999 at my store if that helps, but probably more expensive at places like Best Buy. So, if you cover his cost of those parts it might be quite expensive.

word, don't give him refunds because you'd lose money. Have him ship it back and refund his $$$. You can always relist and get 750 back. Kit lets is ~100 bucks

 

[mugs]

Funny how he claims he's done business on eBay for 10 years but his feedback history only goes back 4 1/2 years and he didn't register until 1999

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: doze
Dam dude you got a good price for that camera on ebay, but you could have listed it a bit better although the description says camera body you didn't specify no lens included so it could go either way. But the guy should have emailed you to make sure it comes with the lens if he was spending that much $$$. As far as the memory card goes he's just trying to get something free out of you. If you wanna be nice you can offer to pay for half of a lens price otherwise you'll probably get negative feedback.

Everyone always says the buyer should have e-mailed... it's easy to say that after the fact, when a problem has occurred. It's not always forseeable ahead of time though.

Regarding the memory card, I don't see anything in the auction about a memory card, so if the camera doesn't normally come with one, hold your ground on that.

The thing is, he wants me to pay for the lens that was supposedly advertised. Right now, I can't find a lens with that specification in the description. I honestly thought that the lens description was just ranges that the camera was compatible with. But anyways if I can't find the lens that supposedly came with it, then how can I refund the price of the lens? It is obvious that the buyer and the seller are SLR noobs unfortunately.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: DAWeinG
The thing is, he wants me to pay for the lens that was supposedly advertised. Right now, I can't find a lens with that specification in the description. I honestly thought that the lens description was just ranges that the camera was compatible with. But anyways if I can't find the lens that supposedly came with it, then how can I refund the price of the lens? It is obvious that the buyer and the seller are SLR noobs unfortunately.

It looks like that description is for a range of different kits. If you google the part manufacturer's part numbers, you get different kits with different lenses. i.e. 0209B006 has a 17-85mm lens. In that case you'd delete the 18mm and 55mm from the lens specs I guess.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: saahmed
I think he should just return the item and you give him a full refund. Also, the kit that comes with the lens, camera, and I think 32mb card is $999 at my store if that helps, but probably more expensive at places like Best Buy. So, if you cover his cost of those parts it might be quite expensive.

Hmm the thing is, the box doesn't specify having a lens or memory card. Other than that, I don't believe or at least I haven't seen a bundled kit lens with the Rebel XT. I have seen the kit lens with the Canon EOS 20D because I bought it for myself. That also did not come with a memory card. Right now I need to see if Canon has a bundled kit for the Rebel XT so I can find out what lens it comes with. But either google is failing me or my googling skills are rusty.

 

[myusername]

You goofed, AND the guy is scamming you. Your title should have been clearer (i.e. "BODY ONLY"), and you should have made mention in the description that the pictures were for illustrative purposes, but the lens was not included.

By the same token, any ebayer who had been there for 10 years would have asked before blowing his money on an auction titled (and in description) "camera BODY", so it's quite possible he made the purchase with the intent of scamming you for "a little extra". It is unreasonable to expect you to pay WalMarts prices on the lens, and there is no reason you should be expected to include memory at any price.

How did his final bid compare with average ebay bids on that camera body?

 

[lykaon78]

Refund his money if he returns the camera at his cost. Then dispute the auction as described above.

It seems to me that you didn't specifically say the lense was included and the memory card is definitely not mentioned.

 

[doze]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: doze
Dam dude you got a good price for that camera on ebay, but you could have listed it a bit better although the description says camera body you didn't specify no lens included so it could go either way. But the guy should have emailed you to make sure it comes with the lens if he was spending that much $$$. As far as the memory card goes he's just trying to get something free out of you. If you wanna be nice you can offer to pay for half of a lens price otherwise you'll probably get negative feedback.

Everyone always says the buyer should have e-mailed... it's easy to say that after the fact, when a problem has occurred. It's not always forseeable ahead of time though.

Regarding the memory card, I don't see anything in the auction about a memory card, so if the camera doesn't normally come with one, hold your ground on that.

I would email to make sure I was getting the right thing before I dropped $750 on ebay for a xmas present especially if I was married and it was for the wife

 

[KarenMarie]

gthe *ONLY* out that you have here, is that you did not authorize the buyer to spend money and you did not agree to pay for the parts not in thr package. This is where you have to make a decision...

you can just let it go, realise your mistake and give the buyer a partial refund... or you can tell the buyer that you did not ok him spending any money and that the best you will do is refund his money after he returns the camera. i suppose this will depend on whether or not his reimbursment demands are excessive. chances are, right now... the best you can hope for is a neutral feedback... probably a negative.

as far as the buyer asking for confirmation that the lens was there... well, i dont think so. it was in the auction. you chose to use the default description and need to take responsibility for what it says. if the default description says it is there, then you need to make sure you BOLDLY state if it is not. the very last line in the default description says:

The seller, dng_uci, assumes full responsibility for the content of this listing and the item offered.

if you think the seller is being a prick, then you can just tell him to send the camera back and you will give him a full refund, since you did not tell him to spend money on what was missing. take your neg and move on.

that is... IF he does not reverse payment.

 

[myusername]

Originally posted by: saahmed
I think he should just return the item and you give him a full refund. Also, the kit that comes with the lens, camera, and I think 32mb card is $999 at my store if that helps, but probably more expensive at places like Best Buy. So, if you cover his cost of those parts it might be quite expensive.

However, this guy is talking about opening a NIB camera body, buying a lens and memory at walmart and using the camera, thus degrading its value.

If he were an honest buyer, he would have opened it, found the "missing" items, and not touched it until he resolved with the seller. Using the camera, imo, is tantamount to acceptance of the product as is.

Quite frankly, the buyer is a schmuck, and I would be worried about getting the camera back in saleable condition.

The listing was poor, I agree, but it's clear that the seller will have to be very careful in how he handles this.

If payapl was used, the seller is probably ******

If paypal wasn't used, the best course of action is to verify that the final auction price was not out of line for the item, tell the buyer to pound sand, and suck up the negtive

 

[vegetation]

If you wanna be nice you can offer to pay for half of a lens price otherwise you'll probably get negative feedback.

You can let him keep the camera at your cost and he'll still give you a negative in return. Don't do something just because you fear bad feedback is going to hit you.

 

[iamtrout]

You definitely screwed up with the description. The description says the optical zoom is 3x, which any buyer would assume means the 18-55mm kit lens. If you're going to sell such an expensive product you MUST PAY ATTENTION to your auction description. I've sold 8 brand new XT's on eBay and I made damn sure that everything was 100% accurate and easy to understand. As far as what you can do, the price he paid was for the camera kit. If he manages to get the kit lens for $70 you should be able to refund him $70 and not take too much of a loss. As for the memory card, the buyer is sorely mistaken. I wouldn't take any sh!t from him for not including a memory card. Just refund him $70 for the kit lens he buys, and apologize for having such a bad item description. It'll be a huge pain in the ass for both you and him if you tell him to ship it back, plus he'll be angry that he's not getting his camera for Christmas.

 

[saahmed]

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: saahmed
I think he should just return the item and you give him a full refund. Also, the kit that comes with the lens, camera, and I think 32mb card is $999 at my store if that helps, but probably more expensive at places like Best Buy. So, if you cover his cost of those parts it might be quite expensive.

Hmm the thing is, the box doesn't specify having a lens or memory card. Other than that, I don't believe or at least I haven't seen a bundled kit lens with the Rebel XT. I have seen the kit lens with the Canon EOS 20D because I bought it for myself. That also did not come with a memory card. Right now I need to see if Canon has a bundled kit for the Rebel XT so I can find out what lens it comes with. But either google is failing me or my googling skills are rusty.

At the store I work at I am sure we have a kit for a digital Canon SLR, and I am pretty sure it is the XT, but I may be mistaken, it might be the EOS. I'll check tommorrow and let you know if you still havent resolved the issue.

Also, with the zoom lenses, the range, say 18mm-55mm, is the zoom range. Lenses are sold in different ranges. Just couldnt tell if you knew that.