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Early Warning Signs of Fascism: A point by point discussion.

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JSt0rm said:
OMG he is married to a child of immigrants!! His story is unique. Nobody in my family are immigrants and Im sure no liberals have tru™ immigrant blood.
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Evidently you're incapable of being able to discuss immigration policy on the merits. Hopefully your 'immigrant family members' are here legally so you don't need to explain your position on this matter as they're being deported. Since my in-laws did it legally I don't have that same concern and they've since naturalized.
 
JSt0rm said:
OMG he is married to a child of immigrants!! His story is unique. Nobody in my family are immigrants and Im sure no liberals have tru™ immigrant blood.
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My family immigrated in September, 1620 (grandma has a certificate!). Good thing we weren't and aren't of Glenn's ilk; otherwise his family and in-laws never would have been let into my country!
 
glenn1 said:
LOL, if you're talking about HR15 then why even bother when it basically made the whole issue moot by giving legal status to most illegals here currently? You're missing the entire point that I want folks like Trump in jail for breaking the fucking law. Hell, with the approach you're touting why not just put up signs on our borders and at each point of entry saying "if you immigrate via legal means then you're an idiot." The solution to illegal immigration is (1) to greatly raise legal immigration quotas to reduce demand for illegal immigration, and (2) apply extremely severe penalties to both employer and employee if you don't immigrate via legal channels. For the 11MM here or whatever if you're going to let them stay then you need to extract a very large fine (like a year's wages large) and prevent citizenship for 3-4 times the length of time you were here illegally plus like I said actual jail time for the assholes that employed illegals as the modern day plantation owners.
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No, I'm talking about the senate bill from 2013, that had any legalization only after the boarder was secured and it still required illegals to go to the back of the line.

Also, the whole point of a business is to remove individual liability.
 
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zinfamous said:
My family immigrated in September, 1620 (grandma has a certificate!). Good thing we weren't and aren't of Glenn's ilk; otherwise his family and in-laws never would have been let into my country!
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You do realize that it's OK to simply say you favor open borders and not enforcing our immigration laws. That's much simpler and honest than this song and dance you're engaged in.
 
glenn1 said:
You do realize that it's OK to simply say you favor open borders and not enforcing our immigration laws. That's much simpler and honest than this song and dance you're engaged in.
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What song and dance?

What if I told you there are people in Southern California of Spanish lineage that have been here longer then your wasp ass?
 
brycejones said:
Felix won't give an honest answer he is just here to troll he owned up to that months ago. Engent alone is a victory for him.
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You keep repeating the same lie with no proof. I have been tolerant and forgiving up to this point. The only one who is trolling is you repeating that lie.

Put up or shut up.
 
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tornadog said:
If the H1B program is eliminated, what do you suggest happens to the millions on the program. Would you suggest that they be send back to their countries? Would US return the money they paid to the US in terms of Social Security, Taxes, etc? Once they are out of the country, non-compete clauses dont apply, so they are free to take their skills and knowledge to foreign companies. What happens to the debt they owe in terms of mortgage, car loans, credit cards. Are they going to be written off?
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If they are here they can stay. But at some point you have to say enough!
 
JSt0rm said:
What song and dance?

What if I told you there are people in Southern California of Spanish lineage that have been here longer then your wasp ass?
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Yes and I'm sure they displaced Neanderthals a few eons before that. That still has nothing to do with how and whether we will choose (or choose not) to enforce our current immigration laws and deal with people who are illegal immigrants in the U.S. in 2017.
 
Thebobo said:
A little story on Fascism

How To Spot Fascism Before It’s Too Late
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Okay, for sake of argument we'll simply stipulate Trump is a fascist. Considering he was just elected by a democratic vote and won under the rules of the contest in place at the time what is your alternative? Do we abandon democracy since it gave us the wrong fascist result? Do those who voted against him reprise the Obama years and refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of his office? At some point this line of thinking is going to lead to actions worse than the fascist disease that we're ostensibly trying to cure. Calling Trump a fascist over and over is working no better now than calling Obama a Kenyan did for the last 8 years prior to that. Continuing to beat the "he's a fascist" drum has a decent probability of creating the Backfire Effect as well. Y'all need to have more faith in the institutions of American democracy, in 4 years the dude will be gone. Less if he continues being a fvckup and resigns before then.
 
JSt0rm said:
You mistook my lack of giving a shit about you as inability to argue. Whatever the fuck the ability to argue is. This makes you even more retarded in my eyes if you think arguing is an ability.

Debating is an ability. Communication is an ability. Arguing? You fucking dumb.
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I see living under a "fascist" has overtaxed your small brains beyond their capacity and you're just lashing out now like a feral animal. Try not to hurt yourself over the next 4 years.

BTW if you had an intelligence greater than what you do, then you'd know that an argument is means of using statements to persuade someone of something or to present reasons for accepting a conclusion. It's an actual term used for thousands of years and not just what you're doing by sitting around on an internet forum and flinging poop like a chimp at the zoo.
 
glenn1 said:
I see living under a "fascist" has overtaxed your small brains beyond their capacity and you're just lashing out now like a feral animal. Try not to hurt yourself over the next 4 years.

BTW if you had an intelligence greater than what you do, then you'd know that an argument is means of using statements to persuade someone of something or to present reasons for accepting a conclusion. It's an actual term used for thousands of years and not just what you're doing by sitting around on an internet forum and flinging poop like a chimp at the zoo.
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I'm going with the second meaning. I know you angry btw 😉

ar·gue
ˈärɡyo͞o/
verb
gerund or present participle: arguing
  1. 1.
    give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view.
    "defense attorneys argue that the police lacked “probable cause” to arrest the driver"
    synonyms: contend, assert, maintain, insist, hold, claim, reason, allege; More

  2. 2.
    exchange or express diverging or opposite views, typically in a heated or angry way.
    "don't argue with me"
    synonyms: quarrel, disagree, squabble, bicker, fight, wrangle, dispute, feud, have words, cross swords, lock horns, be at each other's throats;
    informalspat
    "the children are always arguing"


 
JSt0rm said:
I'm going with the second meaning. I know you angry btw 😉

ar·gue
ˈärɡyo͞o/
verb
gerund or present participle: arguing
  1. 1.
    give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view.
    "defense attorneys argue that the police lacked “probable cause” to arrest the driver"
    synonyms: contend, assert, maintain, insist, hold, claim, reason, allege; More

  2. 2.
    exchange or express diverging or opposite views, typically in a heated or angry way.
    "don't argue with me"
    synonyms: quarrel, disagree, squabble, bicker, fight, wrangle, dispute, feud, have words, cross swords, lock horns, be at each other's throats;
    informalspat
    "the children are always arguing"

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Whether I'm angry or not just going around saying "not a fascist but number 1 with fascists" isn't even a good way of doing the second definition much less the first. You might as well say "and his momma is fat too" at the end of it.
 
glenn1 said:
Whether I'm angry or not just going around saying "not a fascist but number 1 with fascists" isn't even a good way of doing the second definition much less the first. You might as well say "and his momma is fat too" at the end of it.
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you are my victim.
 
Vic said:
A slightly off topic anecdote: I was skimming FB earlier and saw an puff piece about a restaurant from my local newspaper. And because meat was the restaurant's primary attraction, some of the Pacific NW's finest vegan SWJ's had shown up in the comments section to make sure that everyone knew their opinion with regards to a carnivorous lifestyle. And I struck by how exactly their arguments were like the 'pro-life' crowd. I mean exactly. Just swap a couple of words. It was interesting.
Because the reality is that the extremists on the left and right are more alike to each other than they are to the majority of us who sanely sit somewhere near the middle trapped between these emotional crazies and forced to pick a side (which usually ends up happening by default).
But when BlueMax says that leftists are fascists, he's only wrong because he sees everyone to the left of himself as 'leftists' who are all the same as those militant vegans want to make it illegal to eat meat.
Which is ridiculous, because I love bacon.
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That's a fair point, and something of which we're all guilty to some degree.
 
FelixDeCat said:
3460908-backfire.gif
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lol Not in their minds.
 
desura said:
I should also add that authoritarianism is about protecting something that is precious and holy. So segregationist authoritarians in the South thought that they were protecting the virtue of white women, and if you look at it from that angle, their actions flow from there.

Contemporary Left-authoritarians think that they're protecting LGBT people, who are kind of the new priests of that movement. They also like to imagine themselves standing up for historically disadvantaged minorities.
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I think a simpler answer is simply that people like power, and the more power they accrue, the more they want.
 
glenn1 said:
Okay, for sake of argument we'll simply stipulate Trump is a fascist. Considering he was just elected by a democratic vote and won under the rules of the contest in place at the time what is your alternative? Do we abandon democracy since it gave us the wrong fascist result? Do those who voted against him reprise the Obama years and refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of his office? At some point this line of thinking is going to lead to actions worse than the fascist disease that we're ostensibly trying to cure. Calling Trump a fascist over and over is working no better now than calling Obama a Kenyan did for the last 8 years prior to that. Continuing to beat the "he's a fascist" drum has a decent probability of creating the Backfire Effect as well. Y'all need to have more faith in the institutions of American democracy, in 4 years the dude will be gone. Less if he continues being a fvckup and resigns before then.
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The institutions only remain if we defend them. When Nixon sacked the head of the Watergate investigation, the outrage was widespread. Now it's along partisan lines because Republicans will defend anything.

And I think you'll find that Trump was elected by an undemocratic vote, considering how the popular vote shook out despite voter suppression efforts. We let Scalia and co. gut the Voting Rights Act, and all of a sudden we've got a rash of new laws limiting access to the vote. Sometimes it's even as funny as NC removing days of early voting specifically to depress black voters' turnout, which doesn't pass the court's muster, then counties (including the one I have to survive in) deciding that they want to remove the exact same days, but because they didn't do the work of figuring out which ones to remove, they got to do it just fine.

So no. The answer is to embrace democracy because abandoning it in favor of partisan gain gave us a fascist result.
 
glenn1 said:
Okay, for sake of argument we'll simply stipulate Trump is a fascist. Considering he was just elected by a democratic vote and won under the rules of the contest in place at the time what is your alternative? Do we abandon democracy since it gave us the wrong fascist result? Do those who voted against him reprise the Obama years and refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of his office? At some point this line of thinking is going to lead to actions worse than the fascist disease that we're ostensibly trying to cure. Calling Trump a fascist over and over is working no better now than calling Obama a Kenyan did for the last 8 years prior to that. Continuing to beat the "he's a fascist" drum has a decent probability of creating the Backfire Effect as well. Y'all need to have more faith in the institutions of American democracy, in 4 years the dude will be gone. Less if he continues being a fvckup and resigns before then.
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First, all Fascist dictators from Hitler to Mussolini to Putin were elected. Moot point.

What must happen is that we maintain our checks and balances. Refuse to give more power to the executive branch. Hold the majority party responsible.

Oh, and not fall for any "Reichstag Fire" events.

I do hope you're right. My hope is that balance is restored after the midterm elections. However, at the pace of growing instability and crazy coming out of the White House after just 100 days, even 2 years seems like it may be too late.

Most here know me. Most here know I'm not prone to hyperbole and I usually side with the right as much as the left. However, after 30 years of right-wing media cult conditioning, it's just too damn ripe for a fascist takeover. They have no idea what an actual fact is and have been conditioned to believe everyone else is lying to them. First the religious right started taking control and now the white supremacists have a open seat at the table. The GOP is a caricature of itself.
 
As I am watching the far right today, I am reminded of this thread.

As far back as 2012 I began waking up to the fact that the right had chosen propaganda and conspiracy theories over facts and policy debates. Not just the fringe, mind you, but these thigs were being mainstreamed.

Since 2015 I have been noticing many of the far right cults of personality have been grooming their followers for fascism. To support fascist dictators over the free world.

And... Here we are. The far right is full team Putin. And they are using batshit insane conspiracy bullshit to justify it. And MANY current elected right-wing officials are on board

There is a serious crisis in America. I have been warning about it for 6 years now. The right IS grooming its followers for full on totalitarianism in the name of a religious/racial/political ethno-state that matches their ""idea" of "freedom" at the expense of everyone else. And they are groomed to believe they cannot achieve that without a strong man who takes control.

The amount of people in the US and west supporting a totalitarian dictator over the rest of the free world is STUNNING. That it sits over 10% is frightening.

I have also noticed a pushback to this among the right. Which side will win?
 
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Amused said:
As I am watching the far right today, I am reminded of this thread.

As far back as 2012 I began waking up to the fact that the right had chosen propaganda and conspiracy theories over facts and policy debates. Not just the fringe, mind you, but these thigs were being mainstreamed.

Since 2015 I have been noticing many of the far right cults of personality have been grooming their followers for fascism. To support fascist dictators over the free world.

And... Here we are. The far right is full team Putin. And they are using batshit insane conspiracy bullshit to justify it. And MANY current elected right-wing officials are on board

There is a serious crisis in America. I have been warning about it for 6 years now. The right IS grooming its followers for full on totalitarianism in the name of a religious/racial/political ethno-state that matches their ""idea" of "freedom" at the expense of everyone else. And they are groomed to believe they cannot achieve that without a strong man who takes control.

The amount of people in the US and west supporting a totalitarian dictator over the rest of the free world is STUNNING. That it sits over 10% is frightening.

I have also noticed a pushback to this among the right. Which side will win?
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A great WaPo interview on this very subject:

 
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