Early Vega RX performance doesn't quite deliver upon AMD's hype

[Puffnstuff]

Over at Gamers Meld they bring up some interesting facts concerning the soon to be released vega rx gpu's. They don't quite stack up to non reference 1080's and can't even begin to touch a 1080 ti not to mention their power draw is much higher than the NVidia offerings. We won't know for certain until the cards are released into the hands of real people but this is disappointing especially after the hype. If they are not priced below the NVidia offerings it will be a hard sell and I certainly won't be interested in one.

 

[Krteq]

There is still something fishy about Vega 10 gaming performance.

On one side:
- Over 13 TFLOPs of theoretical peak perf.
- Performance in Pro workolads is on par with full-fat GP102 (P6000)
- Architectural enhancements
- Die size
- Power consumption
- Preliminary price

On other side:
- current gaming performance of non-gaming Vega FE card is around GP104 (GTX 1080) levels

 

[Elixer]

If they are not priced below the NVidia offerings it will be a hard sell and I certainly won't be interested in one.

That is what I believe everyone is waiting for...the price.

Pretty much everything else don't matter we basically know it is faster than a 1070, so it could eat up 400W, yet, if it was $400, it would be a...err... hot seller.

 

[Puffnstuff]

That is what I believe everyone is waiting for...the price.

Pretty much everything else don't matter we basically know it is faster than a 1070, so it could eat up 400W, yet, if it was $400, it would be a...err... hot seller.

They could offer it with an easy bake oven so it could do double duty as a children's kitchen appliance.

 

[zuzu]

Over at Gamers Meld they bring up some interesting facts concerning the soon to be released vega rx gpu's. They don't quite stack up to non reference 1080's and can't even begin to touch a 1080 ti not to mention their power draw is much higher than the NVidia offerings. We won't know for certain until the cards are released into the hands of real people but this is disappointing especially after the hype. If they are not priced below the NVidia offerings it will be a hard sell and I certainly won't be interested in one.

i think it's fe vega used in these tests ...
amd wont give rx vega for tests before event
i stil lhope it wil lsquash all pascal gpus ,and force nvidia to make real new super fast dx12/vulcan gpu

 

[Puffnstuff]

i think it's fe vega used in these tests ...
amd wont give rx vega for tests before event
i stil lhope it wil lsquash all pascal gpus ,and force nvidia to make real new super fast dx12/vulcan gpu

Nope its actually rx vega which AMD themselves provided to one outlet for testing. No frame rates were shown but they did disclose that the NVidia part was a 1080 ti. Vega is doing exactly what the partner leakers said needing lots of power and running hot to deliver its performance.

 

[zuzu]

did u ever have 1080ti in pc ?
i have one and normal temp are 72-75c game go over 80 ,and watt's pc draw 140ish watt with card 430 in game 440-450w
i test that cause nvidia reviews say 200w tdp ,so i think my card is broken(ppl tell me that nvidia use low tdp like intel)
so temp power is nothing ,,,we want that rx smash all nvidia got ,so we can get better volta )

 

[Shmee]

Guys, this forum is not for discussion of Nvidia things. Keep it AMD or have it in general VC&G area.

 

[3DVagabond]

Over at Gamers Meld they bring up some interesting facts concerning the soon to be released vega rx gpu's. They don't quite stack up to non reference 1080's and can't even begin to touch a 1080 ti not to mention their power draw is much higher than the NVidia offerings. We won't know for certain until the cards are released into the hands of real people but this is disappointing especially after the hype. If they are not priced below the NVidia offerings it will be a hard sell and I certainly won't be interested in one.

Shouldn't you list the promises they didn't deliver on?

 

[Centauri]

Shouldn't you list the promises they didn't deliver on?

Same request.

When did AMD ever say anything contradictory about Vega with regard to performance level and power envelopes? Because while it probably isn't going to be the GPU many hoped it would be, it sure looks like it's gonna be in line with the expectation AMD has been setting for months.

 

[tential]

I recall AMD saying this was going to be a 4K 60 FPS card. Since we know that is actually possible, I was expecting it to be quite close. With the performance as low as supposedly rumored, it is worrisome to see AMD completely reneg on such a performance promise that they never had to offer in the first place.

It just doesn't seem like AMD has their act together with GPUs since Hawaii. HBM seems to have not delivered for AMD in the way they expected either. That's the problem when you pioneer new tech all the time. You're subject to any issues that may arise

 

[3DVagabond]

I recall AMD saying this was going to be a 4K 60 FPS card. Since we know that is actually possible, I was expecting it to be quite close. With the performance as low as supposedly rumored, it is worrisome to see AMD completely reneg on such a performance promise that they never had to offer in the first place.

It just doesn't seem like AMD has their act together with GPUs since Hawaii. HBM seems to have not delivered for AMD in the way they expected either. That's the problem when you pioneer new tech all the time. You're subject to any issues that may arise

I remember Hawaii being ripped to shreds just like Vega. After all the negative stealth marketing and underhanded review tactics die down though and a few years later we figure out how good it really was. Same with Tahiti before it. (Speaking of Tahiti remember the slower but smoother nVidia campaign? How many of the people, reviewers etc..., who were all over that are saying that Vega and even Ryzen possibly offering smoother performance is irrelevant. They all want FPS numbers.) You think this is bad with all the continuous bashing on the internet, wait until the paid for reviews start.

 

[tential]

I remember Hawaii being ripped to shreds just like Vega. After all the negative stealth marketing and underhanded review tactics die down though and a few years later we figure out how good it really was. Same with Tahiti before it. (Speaking of Tahiti remember the slower but smoother nVidia campaign? How many of the people, reviewers etc..., who were all over that are saying that Vega and even Ryzen possibly offering smoother performance is irrelevant. They all want FPS numbers.) You think this is bad with all the continuous bashing on the internet, wait until the paid for reviews start.

Or it's truly not that fast of a card....
Hawaii was good, Fiji was just barely OK, and Vega just is lackluster for gaming.
AMD is delivering very tiny performance improvements generation after generation.
34% Performance increase at 4k.

 

[SolMiester]

Looks like we can finally put to bed the lets wait for Fury, Vega mantra...AMD has yet to deliver on its hype for the last 4 years.

 

[beginner99]

I remember Hawaii being ripped to shreds just like Vega

Not that bad but it still offered best performance at release for a very good price to counter high power use. RX Vega is 1 year late, priced the same as competition (eg not cheaper) and still has the same power issues. hawaii at least was on time and priced very well.

I mean RX vega is on a new process, uses 3.5 billion more transistors yet has same performance at same clocks as Fiji and same power issues. Add to that an obvious memory bottleneck. I bet memory OC especially on the 56 version will work wonders. But i have a feeling RX 56 will have all the duds (hbm and gpu).

 

[exquisitechar]

I remember Hawaii being ripped to shreds just like Vega.

Hawaii was actually good. The numbers in AMD's own marketing slides make Vega look awful. It isn't the same at all.

Depending on the exact performance Vega 56 could still be an attractive product, though.

 

[Qwertilot]

Hawaii was quite good inherently but a strange/rather frustrating launch. Clocked rather too far for its own good and shipped with reference coolers that just couldn't cope.

Vega seems to have the drawbacks without the compensation.

 

[3DVagabond]

I never said Hawaii wan't good. Quite the opposite. I agree that it was a great GPU. Aged very well, too. BUT it was ripped to shreds when it was released. Remember all the sites buying retail models and claiming that they weren't as good as the review samples? The disassembly highlighting the poorly applied TIM. Reviewers doing everything from holding their hand over the blower to exaggerate any throttling to actually running them in a heated (up to 40°C) case. People wonder why AMD punished some reviewers. lol

 

[unseenmorbidity]

They never really said anything, so they couldn't have broken promises.

 

[Puffnstuff]

They never really said anything, so they couldn't have broken promises.

Raja himself stood right up at their presentation and stated that Vega looked good, really good compared to the 1080 yet they will not post frame rates nor will they allow people to clearly see which system is which during comparison testing. If you've got a great product you put it out in the open for all to see.

Imagine Ford telling everyone that their new Mustang was faster than a Camaro but wouldn't let anyone time 0-60, 60-0, quarter mile, skid pad results or see any data concerning its performance. People would be up in arms over such an act which is why they allow reputable outlets to put the product through its paces and report on it once their NDA is lifted. Getting back to Ford they've just upped the ante on the Mustang with sub 4 second 0-60 times on the 2018 model so they put their money where their mouth was.

If Vega was all that AMD would place their cards on the table with no trickery and prove it. With the heat this card produces they should've named it Supernova instead of Vega.

 

[unseenmorbidity]

Raja himself stood right up at their presentation and stated that Vega looked good, really good compared to the 1080 yet they will not post frame rates nor will they allow people to clearly see which system is which during comparison testing. If you've got a great product you put it out in the open for all to see.

Imagine Ford telling everyone that their new Mustang was faster than a Camaro but wouldn't let anyone time 0-60, 60-0, quarter mile, skid pad results or see any data concerning its performance. People would be up in arms over such an act which is why they allow reputable outlets to put the product through its paces and report on it once their NDA is lifted. Getting back to Ford they've just upped the ante on the Mustang with sub 4 second 0-60 times on the 2018 model so they put their money where their mouth was.

If Vega was all that AMD would place their cards on the table with no trickery and prove it. With the heat this card produces they should've named it Supernova instead of Vega.

You said it yourself. if they had anything to show off, then they would have shouted it from the rooftops. They did the exact opposite, which tells you they had a dud.

Saying something looks good is totally subjective and meaningless.

Every time they were cornered about vega they spoke in vague terms like that. And every time there was a demo, they didn't show any numbers. There silence should have told you everything you needed to know.

That's why I found 2 1080s on sale for about $900. I don't really even miss freesync. IMO adaptive sync is heavily overrated.

 

[Puffnstuff]

As consumers we all really needed some tangible competition to appear to realign the market in our favor. With that said my old 780 ti is right on the edge of its abilities playing world of warships at 3440 x 1400 so I can wait a little longer before committing to anything.

 

[IRobot23]

Or it's truly not that fast of a card....
Hawaii was good, Fiji was just barely OK, and Vega just is lackluster for gaming.
AMD is delivering very tiny performance improvements generation after generation.
34% Performance increase at 4k.

Man, what is going on...
AMD promises higher clock higher IPC.... and we do get higher clock, but lower IPC. How is it possible if Polaris is like 7-8% faster clock per clock? RX 470 vs R9 380X.
https://www.computerbase.de/2016-08/amd-radeon-polaris-architektur-performance/

techreport need to make same for VEGA FE
http://techreport.com/review/30328/amd-radeon-rx-480-graphics-card-reviewed/5

 

[Blockheadfan]

What promises were these? I see this a lot, people take unsubstantiated rumors and the most wishful of "enthusiasts" predictions and suddenly AMD is breaking promises and not delivering? You're taking them to task for saying something as vague as the product was "looking good" vs the competition? What would you expect them to say?

Also the car analogy doesn't work for me at all, you're saying something testable like a 0-60 time is equivalent to some completely subjective comment like "looking good". They could mean looking good price vs performance or looking good when you consider Freesync or whatever marketing they come up with.

I'm not trying to imply this generation is or will be a big success but saying they've failed to deliver on promises seem pretty thin on proof to me.

 

[IRobot23]

What promises were these? I see this a lot, people take unsubstantiated rumors and the most wishful of "enthusiasts" predictions and suddenly AMD is breaking promises and not delivering? You're taking them to task for saying something as vague as the product was "looking good" vs the competition? What would you expect them to say?

Also the car analogy doesn't work for me at all, you're saying something testable like a 0-60 time is equivalent to some completely subjective comment like "looking good". They could mean looking good price vs performance or looking good when you consider Freesync or whatever marketing they come up with.

I'm not trying to imply this generation is or will be a big success but saying they've failed to deliver on promises seem pretty thin on proof to me.

VEGA is ~482mm^2 yet it only competes to competitors 312mm^2, while polaris is 232mm^2 and it is little faster than competitors 200mm^2.