EA planning $70 price point for PS4 games.

[Mopetar]

To all the people saying how developmental costs have gone up much much more are lying.

To prove my point I point to kickstarter. This game Grim Dawn is being developed by some of same guys who did Titan Quest. They only pledged $280,000 not million of dollars like some of you say is needed. This is only one of many examples on kickstarter that prove you don't need 10 or 20 million.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/crateentertainment/grim-dawn

$70 is a joke and I won't be paying that price.

To be fair, in the case of Grim Dawn, the guy says that he got the engine and the dev. tools used to make a previous, similar game. That means that he doesn't need to build all of that from the ground up, which is time consuming.

It's also stated that they have two full-time people and a lot of other part time people who are working other jobs, so the team size is no where near the average for most projects.

If anything, I think the video proves that game development is costly even if you've got a skeleton staff and the game engine and development tools given to you. Furthermore, this isn't exactly what could be called a AAA game.

 

[Craig234]

I remember games costing $60 over 20 years ago that were far simpler.

Just for curiosity, I just checked an example - Ultima VII, list price $80. Oh ya, and Ultima VII part 2, another $80.

I don't find this unreasonable - it's the only alternative that keeps decent games coming instead of all these 'cripple the game and sell DLC' models.

I've always wanted there to be a $200 game that has the content to justify it.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I remember games costing $60 over 20 years ago that were far simpler.

Just for curiosity, I just checked an example - Ultima VII, list price $80. Oh ya, and Ultima VII part 2, another $80.

I don't find this unreasonable - it's the only alternative that keeps decent games coming instead of all these 'cripple the game and sell DLC' models.

I've always wanted there to be a $200 game that has the content to justify it.

NeoGeo games were $200. The system did not do too well.

 

[ImpulsE69]

You're leaving out that no one was buying 3-4 games a month like they do today.

Most people bought 1 or 2 games a year that they really really wanted and rented/traded the rest.

Very few people paid $80 for a PC game back then, even if it was list price, however the market was MUCH MUCH smaller than it is today, by magnitudes. (and I'm sorry but Ultima VII is not a good comparison, it was not simple at all and groundbreaking at the time).

Speaking of which...how did I miss this? Ultima VII: The Black Gate (SNES)

 

[cmdrdredd]

I'm still in agreement that it is too easy to almost copy and paste a game together. I know in terms of coding it's not like that but it seems like many companies don't even try and just throw a few maps or something together and out pops a $60 game.

 

[Soundmanred]

NeoGeo games were $200. The system did not do too well.

It's an (seemingly) obvious outlier as it was an actual arcade machine made for home. No ports, same hardware, same games.
Not sure how you missed that.

I think people play minecraft and say "look how easy it is to make levels and stuff!"

I never had anything to do with building a game engine (thank God), but I always likened it to cars. Using an existing engine to make games was like working on a car, making modifications. Building a game engine is like building a car from raw materials.
I truly don't think people have ANY idea what it takes to make a game and get it out there, especially in the short time frames the public expects.

 

[cmdrdredd]

It's an (seemingly) obvious outlier as it was an actual arcade machine made for home. No ports, same hardware, same games.
Not sure how you missed that.

I think people play minecraft and say "look how easy it is to make levels and stuff!"

I never had anything to do with building a game engine (thank God), but I always likened it to cars. Using an existing engine to make games was like working on a car, making modifications. Building a game engine is like building a car from raw materials.
I truly don't think people have ANY idea what it takes to make a game and get it out there, especially in the short time frames the public expects.

What makes you think I missed it at all? I owned one back in the day too.

I know what goes into a game. One of my friends works in animation. I also know that too many games are copies. Don't know how YOU missed THAT.

 

[Tom]

LOL at people who think production costs have anything to do with retail pricing.

They sell stuff for what the market will bare. Early adopter who drops $400 on a new PS4 is going to drop $70 on a game without flinching.

Everyone else can wait til its on sale for $50. or $30. Or whatever price they think is good.

Of course the danger is by the time the price drops some new game will come out and now their potential customer isn't that interested anymore.

Another thing these high prices tell us. Sony and Microsoft are milking their base more than they are trying to build the market. Probably because hardcore console gaming is kind of a stagnant market.

 

[ultimatebob]

Heh... and people are wondering why console and PC gaming is losing market-share to mobile phone and tablet games that usually cost less than $5 each.

 

[TheSlamma]

Sweet so EA is going to have $70 games that no one wants.

This is like $70 veggie burgers.

 

[tedrodai]

Good god some people are ignorant. Do you honestly believe that the compensation for the people you hate amounts to anything more than a cent or two per unit?

Hmm...and how many employees does the next cent or two cover? One or two cents per unit is a comparatively huge percentage to compensate 1 person with the amount of sales they have.

But you're right that it's not so much their salaries as simply their business model (their decisions) that drive the unit cost.

 

[poohbear]

personally i've never paid 59.99 for any game, i refuse to, i just wait till they drop in price then buy em. I sure as hell aint paying $69 for a game, that's utter nonsense. I know its expensive to make games, but lets be honest, its the top 10% of execs that are taking this money, the avg developer isn't seeing a raise in his salary.

 

[poohbear]

The video game(software) industry(especially the console game market) is in decline.


Nov 2011 was up 15% over Nov 2010
Nov 2012 was 11% off Nov 2011
Dec 2011 was 21% off Dec 2010
Dec 2012 was 22% off Dec 2011

Jan 2011 was 5% off Jan 2010.
Jan 2012 was 39% off of Jan 2011.
Jan 2013 was 19% off of Jan 2012.

The last 14 or 15 months have all seen year over year declines. Total sales of 2012 were down 23% from 2011. But the declines start over two years ago.

Its mostly because of Sony, MS, and Nintendo waiting longer to release next gen consoles, but the disaster that is the Wii U doesn't paint a rosy picture for 2013. PS4 and XboxNxt aren't going to make a sizable impact in 2013. And its to be determined if they are going to sell well at their expected price points.

don't u think the global recession has a lot to do with that? u completely overlooked that and blamed the video game companies. epic fail.

 

[Nintendesert]

I've seen people mention older game prices a bit, but they keep forgetting one major part of old game prices: the game medium. Cartridges were significantly more expensive to produce than optical media, and that was even more so if your game required more storage, which typically occurred with RPGs.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Who cares what the manufacturing costs are? Do you care when you go to the store and buy something? No.

The only thing that matters is that the consumer has historically been willing to pay the higher prices. F2P and DLC on the PC side has also shown that consumers are willing to pay much much more than box copy prices over the life of the game as long as you bleed the consumer slowly.

Consumers are what allow EA/Activision/Blizzard to do these sorts of things. So hopefully people are no longer willing to pay 69.99 for a game and vote with their wallets. That's the only thing that will adjust EA's stance on this. Manufacturing or development costs don't play into this at all.

 

[BrightCandle]

The introduction of always on DRM and microtransactions only detract from a games value. Its ironic that despite the advances of the last 20 years the publishers have been progressively been pursuing ways to reduce the value of the products sold despite the rising costs of making them. But EA does what it does and either market forces will force the price down or they won't and the price hike will happen.

I think its odd that game prices haven't moved far in a decade, because the value of the money used to buy them has effectively halved in the same period.

 

[ImpulsE69]

The introduction of always on DRM and microtransactions only detract from a games value. Its ironic that despite the advances of the last 20 years the publishers have been progressively been pursuing ways to reduce the value of the products sold despite the rising costs of making them. But EA does what it does and either market forces will force the price down or they won't and the price hike will happen.

I think its odd that game prices haven't moved far in a decade, because the value of the money used to buy them has effectively halved in the same period.

It's not odd at all. Same thing with covers to bars to see bands, movies, even concert tickets (except for old big names coming back). People have a breaking point as to how much they will shell out for a limited time purchase (entertainment). Again, as I keep saying, it's entertainment, not an investment. If you are shelling out as much as a car payment for something that lasts 6-10 hours of mediocrity, then it is not perceived as a value.

This is why in the long run, microtransactions will work for the average consumer. If a game is good enough to suck you in, you will pay the money, and it will add up fast because most people don't do that math in their head (much like how places price things at $X.95. It's a mental thing.

We are being microtransactioned in almost every aspect of life with all the hidden fees, taxes, etc we pay on top of advertised price.

 

[Deltaechoe]

I was hearing that sony was going to cap software prices at 60 dollars

 

[Doppel]

don't u think the global recession has a lot to do with that? u completely overlooked that and blamed the video game companies. epic fail.

I doubt it. I'm sure others have run the numbers, but how are movies and other forms of media entertainment doing? I think they're doing well.

The truth is nobody knows what is behind these numbers as they are likely a combination of factors, I'd say the top two are consoles facing competition from elsewhere and also the aging hardware. Although I want to believe the last one, though, when was the last time you thought "Man, I'd buy this game, but if only it were on a next-gen, so until then screw it.".

 

[smackababy]

I doubt it. I'm sure others have run the numbers, but how are movies and other forms of media entertainment doing? I think they're doing well.

Are they doing well? The price of movie tickets have gone up considerably. The record industry has imploded. Gaming companies are bleeding money. The successful ones are either HUGE corporations or have other ventures propping them up. You think Valve would still be around without Steam constantly keeping their books out of the red? The gaming industry isn't as healthy as people seem to want to believe.

Always bitching about EA buying up all these small companies and "ruining" them. Funny that being bought up is a two way street. These small companies sell because they realized that is a hell of a better chance at job security than hoping kickstarter pays your employees. Even the mammoth Blizzard, with a money printing machine (WoW) sold to Activision. If you think that doesn't say something about the industry, you're a moron or have your head in the sand.

People comparing kickstarter budget games and saying you don't need a big budget needs to look at CoD. A big budget game that has sold more copies than ANY KICKSTARTER GAME EVER.

 

[KaOTiK]

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Who cares what the manufacturing costs are? Do you care when you go to the store and buy something? No.

The only thing that matters is that the consumer has historically been willing to pay the higher prices. F2P and DLC on the PC side has also shown that consumers are willing to pay much much more than box copy prices over the life of the game as long as you bleed the consumer slowly.

Consumers are what allow EA/Activision/Blizzard to do these sorts of things. So hopefully people are no longer willing to pay 69.99 for a game and vote with their wallets. That's the only thing that will adjust EA's stance on this. Manufacturing or development costs don't play into this at all.

Cartridge cost was a factor back then and was a limiting factor for lots of games because they didn't want to become to large because it was going to cost more. On top of the license cost to the console companies, the publishers also had to buy the carts from the console manufactures as well. The medium was part of games cost back then. One of the big things that was pushed as a big positive going to CD's (CD's had a negativity to them due to load times). Sega CD games MSRP was $49.99 back then while we would routinely see cartridge games for $70 in that same time period.

 

[Craig234]

personally i've never paid 59.99 for any game, i refuse to, i just wait till they drop in price then buy em. I sure as hell aint paying $69 for a game, that's utter nonsense. I know its expensive to make games, but lets be honest, its the top 10% of execs that are taking this money, the avg developer isn't seeing a raise in his salary.

Who can hire devs?

It's about competition and making money.

Unfortunately, like in many things, what's profitable isn't always good for consumers.

Game publishers typically depend on a number of sales at list price to remain profitable. If everyone waited for a sale, they'd go out of business or make lower budget titles.

There are games 'worth' $69 to many people. It doesn't mean the execs are getting rich, look at THQ with some $60 good games, out of business.

Some MMO's and 'free to pay' games can make hundreds of dollars - so they get made.

If more consumers spent $60 on 'full' games you play as much as you want with no other charges, more of those would get made.

People seem more willing to spend more a little at a time than a lot (but less total) once.

 

[dagamer34]

What always disturbed me is the $60/year people spend on Madden which quickly turns into a $3 game within a year. And if you wanna play online, you have to buy a new game EVERY YEAR. And that thing sells 3 million copies. Mind boggling.

 

[Craig234]

What always disturbed me is the $60/year people spend on Madden which quickly turns into a $3 game within a year. And if you wanna play online, you have to buy a new game EVERY YEAR. And that thing sells 3 million copies. Mind boggling.

On top of that, sometimes the sports games get better reviews for earlier years.

Then again, for my opinion, spectator sports are a huge waste of money.

 

[TheSlamma]

People seem more willing to spend more a little at a time than a lot (but less total) once.

According to console game sales they are not though

 

[BoberFett]

Hmm...and how many employees does the next cent or two cover? One or two cents per unit is a comparatively huge percentage to compensate 1 person with the amount of sales they have.

But you're right that it's not so much their salaries as simply their business model (their decisions) that drive the unit cost.

Don't get me wrong, there are probably quite a few over-compensated CxOs. But it's hardly the driving force behind product pricing in this country, much as some people would have you believe that if only if it weren't for the greedy execs, everything would cost half as much as it does right now.