EA kills Maxis.

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VulgarDisplay

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2009
6,193
2
76
victims-of-ea.png

The funny thing about this image. The studios that were shut down hadn't made a decent game in YEARS, and the ones that aren't shut down are continually putting out Triple AAA titles that are some of the best games on the market.

Is it EA that's the cause of the success of Battlefield BC1, BC2, BF3, BF4, Dragon Age Origins and Inquisition, Mass Effect 2 and 3?

The common thread is that those studios stopped making good games and were closed. You're payed to perform and if you don't perform you seek new employment. The video game industry is survival of the fittest.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
While some truth, a similar amount of truth is that many of these studios didn't start having badly received products, or lack of product output until after that becoming part of EA.
 

Morbus

Senior member
Apr 10, 2009
998
0
0
They've killed plenty of companies, Bioware just aren't the same since SWTOR.
You mean Star Wars: Knights of The Old Republic?

Yeah, they haven't been Bioware since then, you're right. But it's not all EA's fault on that front.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
Chasing the "social" garbage killed Maxis. The latest Simcity was light on substance and high on buzz words.
 

BSim500

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,480
216
106
Is it EA that's the cause of the success of Battlefield BC1, BC2, BF3, BF4, Dragon Age Origins and Inquisition, Mass Effect 2 and 3?
Hardly. The reason DAO was so good is that EA acquired Bioware too late in the development cycle to nerf anything of significance. You can almost hear "the meeting" now if DAO had been EA controlled from the start : "We're not happy with the tactics page. It's overly complex especially for casual gamers. Remove it and put in a fake tactical overhead camera that close to useless in many areas. Also take out the 40x slot quickbar, it's too complicated and unfair on console owners and you can't click on it with a controller. There are too few cutscenes and no "press X to win" button-mashing QTE's. Our target audience loves those. 70 spells are too complicated, you need to nerf that down to 17. And although many people prefer 60-70hr quality RPG's over 100-200hr "obvious bland filler" laden grind-fests, our marketing department disagrees and has the final say. Oh, and add multi-player within the same budget / time limitation - you can save time by not play-testing the PC version with a mouse / keyboard. And double the amount of DRM. And remove..." :biggrin:

DAO was the last decent RPG Bioware put out that wasn't "casualized" by EA. And that includes its sequels. ME2 was considerably dumbed down and less RPG-like vs original (no inventory, inferior journal system, tedious hacking & scanning mini-games, messed up mouse input, weaker skills & gunplay), etc. ME3's ending was completely broken because of EA's insistence on the importance of multi-player in single-player franchises (and how it screwed up Effective Military Strength rating by nerfing Readiness Rating multiplier to 50% thus guaranteeing a bad ending unless you grinded multi-player until their "bright idea" was patched out). Most of the other war-centric multi-player FPS's are pretty much exactly the same game resold over & over with 10% mechanics tweaks and increasingly iffy netcode per iteration. This doesn't make them "bad" games to those who enjoy them, but seriously, it wasn't EA that "rescued" the franchises from the earlier games. The bulk of their modern sales come not from the quality of the game, but franchise over-hype and oversized marketing budgets, little different to Ubisoft's stream of "hot messes" last year.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
I spent 5 years working at EA Maxis-Emeryville.
Today was my last day - along with all my co-workers.
Lots of lives and families affected today.
Our friendships and successes and struggles will be ours.

Haters are going to hate.

I've been in the video game industry since 1992.
Maxis-Emeryville pushed me harder than I've been pushed.
I worked with the smartest, cleverest, artist-ist people I've ever worked with.
Absolutely supreme talent.

I'll miss them.

_DSC9781.jpg

Sorry to hear that.

Best wishes on finding a new position in the industry. Hopefully you can find a great position with a great company. I don't want to sugar-coat it, but it an exciting time in the industry so hopefully there is a great opportunity out there for you. :)
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
If you guys think EA is bad when they purchase a company, I can't imagine what you think companies run solely by developers would be. You guys remember 3DRealms? Heard of Valve? What was the last game we got from them?
 

EDUSAN

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2012
1,358
0
0
I remember valve, every game they do is great

The thing is.... what do you prefer?

100 companies doing 100 mediocre games per year
or
100 companies doing 25 excelent games per year

i rather have the 2nd option. i dont even have enough time to play 100 mediocre games per year
 

Owls

Senior member
Feb 22, 2006
735
0
76
To be fair Mythic Entertainment was already in shambles because of their poor leadership and vision with Dark Age of Camelot. They had an amazing game ahead of its time and pissed it all away.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
I spent 5 years working at EA Maxis-Emeryville.
Today was my last day - along with all my co-workers.
Lots of lives and families affected today.
Our friendships and successes and struggles will be ours.

Haters are going to hate.

I've been in the video game industry since 1992.
Maxis-Emeryville pushed me harder than I've been pushed.
I worked with the smartest, cleverest, artist-ist people I've ever worked with.
Absolutely supreme talent.

I'll miss them.

_DSC9781.jpg

Sorry to hear that. That right monitor in your Eyefinity setup needs one hell of a bevel compensation though. ;) Just kidding. I hope you land on your feet somewhere else good, if you haven't already. Sounds like some employees are being shuffled to Redwood Shores so they would not necessarily need to move residences.
 
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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
If you guys think EA is bad when they purchase a company, I can't imagine what you think companies run solely by developers would be. You guys remember 3DRealms? Heard of Valve? What was the last game we got from them?

Portal 2. And Valve is far from just a developer, their main business is Steam and their game dev division has become the tail and not the dog of the business.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
The funny thing about this image. The studios that were shut down hadn't made a decent game in YEARS, and the ones that aren't shut down are continually putting out Triple AAA titles that are some of the best games on the market.

Is it EA that's the cause of the success of Battlefield BC1, BC2, BF3, BF4, Dragon Age Origins and Inquisition, Mass Effect 2 and 3?

The common thread is that those studios stopped making good games and were closed. You're payed to perform and if you don't perform you seek new employment. The video game industry is survival of the fittest.

Consider very carefully the fact that you purposefully excluded DA2, and that's the counter to your argument.

Consider how absolutely broken BF4 was/is, and that the devs had to literally fight to delay Hardline, and that's also a counter.

It's not simply the fact that the dev house stopped performing. You're ignoring why the dev houses stopped performing.

I think CS:GO and DOTA 2 (official launch) are newer than Portal 2. Both of which are designed around cosmetic micro-transactions.
 

motsm

Golden Member
Jan 20, 2010
1,822
2
76
Blaming Bioware's mediocrity on EA is a bit off base. Has no one watched as nearly every single old guard PC developer attempts mainstream success by churning out broad audience AAA's? It would have happened regardless, the industry just isn't what it was in the 90's. This should be made pretty clear by projects like Pillars of Eternity being relegated to Kickstarter funding, if Bioware was still trying to make games like that, they would be in the same boat.
 
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exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
If you guys think EA is bad when they purchase a company, I can't imagine what you think companies run solely by developers would be. You guys remember 3DRealms? Heard of Valve? What was the last game we got from them?

It actually can work work really well, that's essentially what almost every Kickstarter campaign has been. The budget raised was strictly for development and product creation, rather than marketing and corp. overhead.

I am not saying the corporate entity doesn't have any value-add, but there needs to be a balance between leadership/fiscal responsibility and creativity. Go too much in one direction and you that opens you up for issues, but not always.

Look at Andrew Wilson (CEO at EA) and I would not consider him a game 'insider' at all. He worked on EA Sports and Origin content delivery, both which have poor track records. EA Sports itself has released OK, but little innovation or risk-taking there. Of course, its a revenue-driver, so guess why he rose through the ranks? ;)
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
It actually can work work really well, that's essentially what almost every Kickstarter campaign has been. The budget raised was strictly for development and product creation, rather than marketing and corp. overhead.
Name a company started on Kickstarter that has successfully released multiple games, not even to mention those which are above mediocre?

Even the successful Kickstarters are jokes. Pebble SmartWatch? Yeah, made a ton of money the first time. Rather than being a normal business and getting some real investors or loans (or using any profits they made) to create their new product, they go straight back to KickStarter for more "investment".

I am not saying the corporate entity doesn't have any value-add, but there needs to be a balance between leadership/fiscal responsibility and creativity. Go too much in one direction and you that opens you up for issues, but not always.
They add immense value, most just don't see it. Kickstarter in general is a terrible model for consumers. Giving, not investing or loaning, but donating, money to someone in hopes they make a product, without any real incentive or insight into how the money will be spent is such a terrible business model for one side: the person doing the giving.

Look at Andrew Wilson (CEO at EA) and I would not consider him a game 'insider' at all. He worked on EA Sports and Origin content delivery, both which have poor track records. EA Sports itself has released OK, but little innovation or risk-taking there. Of course, its a revenue-driver, so guess why he rose through the ranks? ;)
What exactly bad has happened with Origin? It had features before Steam (selecting where you install the games, for example) and has given me fewer problems than Steam. Granted, I don't have many Steam problems to begin with.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
I really don't understand corporate buyouts and such, so I am sure this will sound like a dumb question.

But - when companies decide they need to sell, don't they have any choice as to who they will sell to? Does it have to be EA? Is there no one else in the industry that's buying?


Beggars can't be choosers. If a game company has to sell off then it is usually in a very bad financial position where it has to pay off its creditors and make its investors happy. Which means the primary owners of a business selling off have to put out a good faith effort in finding the highest bidder willing to offer the highest price in a buyout because of legal fiduciary requirements. I.e. consumers/gamers come distant second to the legal obligations of making sure those who are owed money or have heavily invested in a company are left without complaints in a selloff.

EA being a very huge company that rakes in billions every year means they will always be able to offer a hefty buy out option if they really want to own a business that is selling off. Sometimes though EA just might be the only player in town with the pockets deep enough to take a risk and buyout a gaming company trying to sell off before declaring bankruptcy and shutting its doors down for good.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Name a company started on Kickstarter that has successfully released multiple games, not even to mention those which are above mediocre?

Even the successful Kickstarters are jokes. Pebble SmartWatch? Yeah, made a ton of money the first time. Rather than being a normal business and getting some real investors or loans (or using any profits they made) to create their new product, they go straight back to KickStarter for more "investment".


They add immense value, most just don't see it. Kickstarter in general is a terrible model for consumers. Giving, not investing or loaning, but donating, money to someone in hopes they make a product, without any real incentive or insight into how the money will be spent is such a terrible business model for one side: the person doing the giving.


What exactly bad has happened with Origin? It had features before Steam (selecting where you install the games, for example) and has given me fewer problems than Steam. Granted, I don't have many Steam problems to begin with.

I have no side in this debate but in regards to kickstarter....

This is a very good reason why kickstarter is pretty much an awful vehicle for anyone who is a consumer. The risk level (someone taking your money and disappearing) is significantly higher with a kickstarter fundraiser because donors don't do anywhere near the due diligence of an investor/lender when it comes to ensuring that a developer will stick around to finish and deliver a complete product. There are several examples of developers on kickstarter who have either taken the money and disappeared or who have delivered a piece of crap on arrival product and then disappeared with false promises.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
I have no side in this debate but in regards to kickstarter....

This is a very good reason why kickstarter is pretty much an awful vehicle for anyone who is a consumer. The risk level (someone taking your money and disappearing) is significantly higher with a kickstarter fundraiser because donors don't do anywhere near the due diligence of an investor/lender when it comes to ensuring that a developer will stick around to finish and deliver a complete product. There are several examples of developers on kickstarter who have either taken the money and disappeared or who have delivered a piece of crap on arrival product and then disappeared with false promises.

Yet the success rate and quality of games, in general, has been excellent. Wasteland 2, SolForge, and Shadowrun were all great. Project Eternity is out this month and Star Citizen later this year. Those games all were MASSIVELY less expensive vs. corporate developed titles and better quality IMHO.

Show some real examples other than some anecdotal evidence to the contrary...KS has been a great medium and I trust myself and enthusiasts more than some financial analyst who claims to be a game expert. Sorry. :)

To make matter worse, the whole dev-publisher model is unsustainable and parasitic. Hopefully companies like Activision, Ubisoft and EA fold and we get back to more small/medium-sized companies that are actually passionate about making games.
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
81
I've only funded one kickstarter and that was Dreamfall Chapters. Difference is that this was an existing game company funding a sequel rather than a complete new thing. The Chapters are coming out slow, but they are doing it (IMO) true to the original games and so I got what I risked for.

If DICE could have kickstarted for funding to continue true Battlefield games, I'd have contributed. I'd say the same about Bioware but I'm reasonably pleased by Dragon Age.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
Curious Mike - sorry to hear man! I had no idea you even worked in the industry. What was your role?

As you have survived the industry for so long, I suspect you have proven your mettle to more than one company, and you should have zero problems finding a new home. Here's to hoping you don't have to move to get a new job with an excellent studio, unless of course you want to move, then I say find the best studio and knock on their door! :)

Good luck! And I hope everything works out for you soon.


Portal 2. And Valve is far from just a developer, their main business is Steam and their game dev division has become the tail and not the dog of the business.

Valve is a major exception, however, Valve's business focus on the storefront and related activities (SteamOS et all) is more akin to the publisher-side of Valve. Valve still has internal development teams that do not have anything to do with that aspect of Valve. They have, for instance, been working on Source 2. I suspect they may have been tasked a little to help port Source engine and their own in-house productions to Linux and OpenGL, but otherwise they do have their own projects.

But Valve, as a developer-publisher operation that has existed as a single corporation for the life of the company, is a super rare exception to how they conduct business. They didn't buy the dev studio and start flexing their muscle, they did then and do know what they want to do.

They have the opportunity to take their time and make us Half Life 3 on Source 2 at the pace they require to make what will ultimately be one of the best FPS games of the century, so I don't mind this one bit. :awe:

I have a suspicion that HL3 was partly in the works but perhaps was shelved or scrapped to begin work on a new engine instead of stretching the lifespan of the original Source Engine.

Blaming Bioware's mediocrity on EA is a bit off base. Has no one watched as nearly every single old guard PC developer attempts mainstream success by churning out broad audience AAA's? It would have happened regardless, the industry just isn't what it was in the 90's. This should be made pretty clear by projects like Pillars of Eternity being relegated to Kickstarter funding, if Bioware was still trying to make games like that, they would be in the same boat.

You are missing the root cause of why these "old guard" developers have begun pumping out mediocre games designed to attract a larger audience: this is what EA as a major publisher gets to push, because EA needs big hits that sell to millions so that they can continue making money, and more money whenever possible. That's the world of shareholder-controlled publishers.

It is the reason why Battlefield 4 launched a complete mess, and still isn't what BF3 was, which, while many complain was also a terrible game far removed from BF2, BF3 was simply a spectacle and well-done.
What happened with BF4, at least regarding bugs, is a similar situation as to what happened with the Halo XBONE re-release: hard release date, game must ship then, no ifs ands or buts. "Don't worry", they say, "you can patch it later."

Ugh.

The developers who, with the right publishers, have the opportunity to say, "nope, we're not ready. Delayed" are the ones that can continue to pump out amazing games even if they are designed for a larger audience.

GTA V for PC has been delayed a few times, likewise for The Witcher 3. Both should be great to play on day one, minus perhaps the odd bugs. Games are far more complicated and bugs can hide in so many areas unlike the pre-patch era, and then, I don't think anyone ever had set launch dates until they were pretty much wrapping things up.

BF3 was even a little sloppy in some ways at launch, at least for multi-monitor support and GPUs that were newer at time of launch, but they were addressed quickly. That game too had a set launch date that never budged.

Fact is, the big publishers exert their influence and demand games released on time. This has hurt the industry a lot, as I'm sure you'd agree. Games that require patches on Day 1 to even function properly (or worse, large features remain broken for months after release), that hurts all of us. They threaten funding, because these big games that attempt to please a large audience and be "the next big thing" cost a ton of money and the developer studios themselves can rarely finance that in-house. $50mil dollar games (not counting advertising) aren't a rarity anymore, and studios need publisher support. When publishers pull the plug, games can be left to wither away. As has happened numerous times.

It's a rare studio that can remain a self-publisher, or even a rare publisher that has a few studios that they let work autonomously without much pressure.
 
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motsm

Golden Member
Jan 20, 2010
1,822
2
76
You are missing the root cause of why these "old guard" developers have begun pumping out mediocre games designed to attract a larger audience: this is what EA as a major publisher gets to push, because EA needs big hits that sell to millions so that they can continue making money, and more money whenever possible. That's the world of shareholder-controlled publishers.
Of course it is, but that in no way contradicts what I said. Bioware would still be making the same mass appeal milk toast whether or not they got involved with EA, because that's the entire industry now.