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E7200 degradation

error8

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2007
3,204
0
76
Ok, so I have my E7200 bought in May and it was overclocked to 4 ghz at 1,46 V ( bios) since June. Today, while I was playing Dead Space, I had a hard lock and lost the video signal. I said to myself that it was probably a crash because of the drivers or something like that. Played Dead Space again and everything went smooth.

After that, I've opened up one of my projects in Autocad 2009 and bang, in one minute the computer froze again. Restarted it, opened ACAD again and the same thing happened. Now, I knew my 4870 wasn't the issue anymore, since ACAD 2d hardly stresses the videocard for rendering a couple of simple lines. So I said that it has to be related with the ram /cpu.

Ran memtest and it passed it with no problems. So it remain one single test to do: linpack. Did a quick "half a memory" 5 tests stress and it passed only one out of all five. Hmmm,so I reduced my overclock to 3,9 ghz and it still wasn't able to pass more then one test. Now I'm running it at 3,8 ghz with 1,42V and it seems to do 6 out of 6 tests. The problem is that for this frequency, I "only" needed 1,37 V before, to be perfectly stable in linpack.

All this time my cpu was overclocked to 4 ghz, never went over 67 C, so I always had a good 33 degrees until T junction. In my book, that is a good temperature and yet, degradation happened.

So my advice to you, all the E7XXX overclockers, is to keep the voltage bellow 1,4 V, maybe even bellow the 1,36 V, as Intel states, if you want your cpu to live more. What happened to my chip, could be just the beginning and it might go downhill from now on, until it dies. I knew the risks when I kept it on a higher then "usual" voltage, so please do not start flaming me. This thread is meant to be a warning and you might consider it an experiment I did so you don't have to, so don't start with the "I told you so". ;)

!!!!!UPDATED!!!!!!:

Yesterday I got a big bsod in CoH, right before the mission was loading. Had a feeling about it, and ran Linpack and the horror: it passed only one test out of ten. Tried in bios a couple of voltage increases to several components and only by upping the vcore to 1.45 V made the cpu stable again, at 3,9 ghz. So, if this isn't cpu degradation, then I don't know what it is. Temps are just about what they were before, so nothing happened there. I'm going to raise this sucker's voltage until it melts away. I will not go lower then 3,9 ghz, no matter what.:sun:
 

nyker96

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
5,630
2
81
what is the delta to tjmax for you using realtemp? I'm talking about during linkpack at max memory stressing? I have a E7200 running at 3.5@1.35x, seems to reach pretty high temp during linkpack max stress. I keep the delta to tjmax to about 30C. I also have a S1283 clone (Vendetta 2 for cooling, with the included fan for mine).
 

error8

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2007
3,204
0
76
Well in Linpack temps were always higher then in anything else. I had 73 C once, with Linpack, half memory stress test (27 C until T junction) . I have lower temps if I'm using all the ram, opposed to the 1/2 ram or less. I always use RealTemp to measure my temps.
 

the unknown

Senior member
Dec 22, 2007
374
4
81
For linpack that's perfectly fine. There's a few people running chips closer to 20 and 15C to TjMax on load with the volts under Intels spec and they've had their chips for 2 years or so now. Overvolting a chip will kill a chip much faster than temps. If the CPU gets too hot it simply throttles or shuts down. Doesn't do that with volts ;)
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,756
20,329
146
Originally posted by: the unknown
For linpack that's perfectly fine. There's a few people running chips closer to 20 and 15C to TjMax on load with the volts under Intels spec and they've had their chips for 2 years or so now. Overvolting a chip will kill a chip much faster than temps. If the CPU gets too hot it simply throttles or shuts down. Doesn't do that with volts ;)

Yup.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
10,225
126
Are we so sure it's the chip that has degraded? I would be willing to suggest that mobo degredation happens a lot more than chip degredation. Look at the people with Q6600s running them with big overclocks, and eventually wear out the mobo, but the chip will still clock with a fresh mobo.

My friend's E5200 @ 3.75Ghz is running at 1.425v (BIOS), which is 1.4-1.406v actual under load as measured by CPU-Z. I'll keep an eye on it.
 

error8

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2007
3,204
0
76
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Are we so sure it's the chip that has degraded? I would be willing to suggest that mobo degredation happens a lot more than chip degredation. Look at the people with Q6600s running them with big overclocks, and eventually wear out the mobo, but the chip will still clock with a fresh mobo.

My friend's E5200 @ 3.75Ghz is running at 1.425v (BIOS), which is 1.4-1.406v actual under load as measured by CPU-Z. I'll keep an eye on it.

Yeah, the mobo can degrade too, probably. But thinking that an oc'ed E7200 doesn't draw nearly as much as an oc'ed Q6600, I highly doubt the mobo might be "guilty". Plus, I had it replaced during august, since a reset corrupted her bios. So the mobo is very fresh. :p
 

Gillbot

Lifer
Jan 11, 2001
28,830
17
81
Check your ram and mobo. I have heard quite a few cpu "degrading" stories that turned out to be other hardware.
 

error8

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2007
3,204
0
76
I already tried out higher voltages for NB and SB, so that could rule out a mobo degradation!? I've also increased my ram voltage and ran memtest. So, is there something else I have to do?
 

Gillbot

Lifer
Jan 11, 2001
28,830
17
81
Short of checking that chip in another system that can run at a speed similar to your other setup, probably not. Also, increasing your NB/SB voltage won't necessarily rule out degradation of the mobo.
 

error8

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2007
3,204
0
76
It would be a lot of a hassle to try the chip inside another system and I don't think I'll be doing that, since I don't have a second LGA 775 mobo around here. My mobo had voltages kept fairly low all the time ,only Vcore was up in the sky. So, since I had it only from August and didn't exceed the normal limits with the NB/SB/VTT voltages, I'm inclined to think that she has nothing to do with this. Although, running the Vcore to 1,46V can stress out electrical components on the mobo, so.... One thing is clear though: keeping the cpu voltage too high can harm your system. :p
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,756
20,329
146
Pick up a 21xx series or a celeron to test the board with. Chances are it's the CPU considering the extra voltage you put into it.
 

Gillbot

Lifer
Jan 11, 2001
28,830
17
81
I've read many of the stories about VTT and going over 1.4V core. Personally, I've run the crap out of many and when my overclocks have fallen, it has ALWAYS been another component. I'm not saying that it is NOT your CPU, I'm just saying to fully investigate it before you quickly blame the chip and believe internet tales.
 

Denithor

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
6,298
23
81
A post on the AT main site from one of the senior writers is now considered "internet tales" around here?

Wow. :Q
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,270
16,120
136
Almost every CPU I have, I have had to "down" my overclock over time. My E8400 I just had to lower to 3.96. And I don't user over 1.4 vcore on any of them.
 

Gillbot

Lifer
Jan 11, 2001
28,830
17
81
Originally posted by: Denithor
A post on the AT main site from one of the senior writers is now considered "internet tales" around here?

Wow. :Q

No, but there have been many discussions about degradation of 45nm CPU's all over MANY forums.
 

rogue1979

Diamond Member
Mar 14, 2001
3,062
0
0
This sounds like a repeat of "P4 sudden death syndrome".

Back in the day, it took many overclockers by surprise.

I believe the final consensus was over 1.6v was a real problem.
That was a 90nm cpu.

Now two die shrinks later we wanna believe a 45nm cpu can take 1.4v safely?

I'm still running a Conroe 65nm cpu and I won't go over 1.4v. Yep, I can overclock it further at 1.5v, but I know that is putting it at risk. Yeah, lot's of people have been running it at higher volts, but it still isn't safe in my humble opinion.

If Intel says 1.36v for a 45nm cpu, that is probably the max safe limit, anything more is a serious risk. I'm about to upgrade to a E5200 and 1.3v is gonna be the limit for me.

There could be several possible explanations for the OP's instability, but I believe it is cpu degradation problem from too much voltage.
 

nevbie

Member
Jan 10, 2004
150
5
76
sounds like you want a new CPU.. I'm sure that when I upgrade to Q9550, I will have the equal fun with undervolting&overclocking as you have with overvolting&overclocking, but without degradation thoughts.
 

error8

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2007
3,204
0
76
Yeah, I really want a new one. Had my eyes on the Q9400, which isn't a beast, but it overclocks nice and it's a good chip overall, but I'm lacking cash at the moment. So, I'll just melt this one out. :) Sounds smart, isn't it?
 

error8

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2007
3,204
0
76
Originally posted by: Gillbot
I've still never seen a CPU degrade and I push my chips pretty far.

Me neither. I only heard about E8400 degrading ( maybe ), but never on an E7200. I don't know what else to think. This is the only logical explanation I can find, since only when I increase v core, I manage to get it back stable, any other setting doesn't.