E5-2687W v3 alternative for multiple use

dexter101

Junior Member
Aug 1, 2015
1
0
0
Hi,

I am in the process of building a dual xeon system for audio production so high frequency clock is important. However, I will also be using the pc for intensive java calculations where core count will be important.

The obvious option is the 2687W v3, however I think the cost is excessive and would like to consider alternatives that would offer a "similar performance".

http://www.intel.co.uk/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/xeon-e5-brief.pdf

My options:
E5-2687W v3 around $2000X2= $4000
E5-2667 v3 (8 core), around $1950X2= $3900
E5-2660 v3 (10 core), around $1360X2= $2720

I am currently leaning towards the E5-2660 v3.

Any recommendations or advice is much appreciated.
 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
It depends how high clocks you need for your audio. And if turbo clocks can fit within that threadcount.
 

Burpo

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2013
4,223
473
126
You still believe that FUD? Nowhere does intel say it's illegal to sell them. They just say they don't sell them.

Can I get Intel ES processors from Intel?
Due to the pre-production nature of Intel ES Processors, they are generally only loaned by Intel to Intel's Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs), Original Device Manufacturers (ODMs), and Independent Software Vendors (ISVs) for pre-production test and evaluation work under specific contractual terms and conditions that assure the protection of Intel's assets and confidential information.

Intel ES Processors are not made available to the general public by Intel.

Contact your vendor or place of purchase if you have received an Intel ES Processor in place of a production processor.

If you have additional questions or concerns, please contact Intel Customer Support, using one of the methods below:

http://www.intel.com/support/processors/sb/CS-030747.htm
 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
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Its illegal and people get prosecuted for it.

These processors often include additional features that production processors do not include for customer pre-production evaluation and test purposes. The following conditions apply to Intel ES Processors:
•Intel ES Processors are the sole property of Intel.
•Intel ES Processors are Intel Confidential.
•Intel ES Processors are provided by Intel under nondisclosure and/or special loan agreement terms with restrictions on the recipient's handling and use.
•Intel ES Processors are not for sale or re-sale.
•Intel ES Processors may not have passed commercial regulatory requirements.
•ES Processors are not covered under Intel warranty and are generally not supported by Intel

Example:
http://www.neowin.net/news/suspects-arrested-for-selling-sample-intel-cpus-on-ebay
 
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Burpo

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2013
4,223
473
126
I posted an Intel link.. Ebay would not allow any ES auctions if that were true.

from your 3 1/2 yr old link..

"The story does not state which of the OEM makers the suspects in this case worked for."

I'm sure if someone's stealing hundreds of cpu's from HP etc. & they can prove where the cpu's came from, then yeah, that's an arrestable offence. People selling server pulls from HP etc. that HP sold off to recyclers, then nope..
 
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cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
106
Hi,

I am in the process of building a dual xeon system for audio production so high frequency clock is important. However, I will also be using the pc for intensive java calculations where core count will be important.

The obvious option is the 2687W v3, however I think the cost is excessive and would like to consider alternatives that would offer a "similar performance".

http://www.intel.co.uk/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/xeon-e5-brief.pdf

My options:
E5-2687W v3 around $2000X2= $4000
E5-2667 v3 (8 core), around $1950X2= $3900
E5-2660 v3 (10 core), around $1360X2= $2720

I am currently leaning towards the E5-2660 v3.

Any recommendations or advice is much appreciated.

Do you already own the workstation?

The reason I am asking is because you mention leaning towards the E5-2660 v3 which has the lowest clocks.

If you were more sensitive on price you could always step down to a Sandy Bridge Workstation (HP Z620/Z820, Lenovo D30, etc.) and get two E5-2670s for around $800 (~$400 each) shipped on ebay. Make sure to get matching steppings. These processors have the same clocks are your dual E5-2660 v3, but sacrifices 4 cores total (16C/32T vs 20C/40T) and some IPC.

Another alternative for Sandy Bridge would be two E5-2680. This should be ~$1000 and under shipped for both processors and the clocks are higher @ 2.7 Ghz/3.5 Ghz turbo (16C/32T total for two processors).
 
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Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
1,354
226
106
You may want to consider the alternate OEM version of the E5-2699 - the E5-2696.
Same performance, less power usage, less cost on Ebay ($2000 or less), and NOT an ES, but a legit production version.
 

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,387
465
126
Even non engineering samples go pretty cheap on ebay. You can get 10 core or 12 core Xeons for like half the price of a retail 5960X.
 

Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
1,354
226
106

Max Turbo mode is 3.6ghz for the E5-2696 v3, same as the E5-2699 v3, but TDP is 130w.

That site is not the most dependable.
They list my E5-2696 v2s max turbo as 3.3ghz, when they are 3.5ghz. :rolleyes:

Also they don't mention that -

E5-2697 v2 Turbo mode
3000 MHz (6 or more cores)
3100 MHz (5 cores)
3200 MHz (4 cores)
3300 MHz (3 cores)
3400 MHz (2 cores)
3500 MHz (1 core)

E5-2696 v2 Turbo mode
3100 MHz (5 or more cores)
3200 MHz (4 cores)
3300 MHz (3 cores)
3400 MHz (2 cores)
3500 MHz (1 core)

I would expect the E5-2696 v3 and E5-2699 v3 to have similar (but 3.6ghz max) performance and the same type difference in turbo steps.

For the last 2 E5 Xeon releases the 2696 model has come out slightly after the main release of "the top of the line" E5, and has shown tweaked performance for both core and power usage.
They have been released to OEMs and not retail, like "the top of the line" units.
They are essentially "cherry-picked" units for all practical purposes.

When you can find tests/benchmarks comparing 2696 units vs "top of the line" units, you find they always equal and normally beat the "top of the line" processors. :whiste:

My 2696 v2s can be locked into turbo mode (3.1-3.5ghz), locked in normal mode (1.2 -2.5ghz) or just allowed to "do their own thing" and "speed step" as needed (any freq, between 1.2ghz and 3.5ghz in .1ghz steps), so I would expect the v3s be able to operate the same. ;)
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
2,417
75
91
My 2696 v2s can be locked into turbo mode (3.1-3.5ghz), locked in normal mode (1.2 -2.5ghz) or just allowed to "do their own thing" and "speed step" as needed (any freq, between 1.2ghz and 3.5ghz in .1ghz steps), so I would expect the v3s be able to operate the same. ;)

Is that "locked into turbo mode", part of ALL the OEM/Retail, officially launched E5 parts. Or is that ONLY for ES versions ?
 

Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
1,354
226
106
Is that "locked into turbo mode", part of ALL the OEM/Retail, officially launched E5 parts. Or is that ONLY for ES versions ?

E5-2696 v2s and v3s are not ES versions, they have only been released with production s-spec and part numbers. o_O

And yes, you should be able to do it with any E5 (and possibly E3s and E7s, but I haven't tested) :cool:

This works on my Gigabyte GA-7PESH3 w/2x E52696 v2s, so it should work on any board designed for Xeons.

In Windows 7/Server2008 r2 and Windows 8.1/Server 2012 r2, you can force turbo mode by setting the minimum and maximum processor state in power options. ( I never checked Windows 8/Server 2012, but it should work there also)
My E5-2696 v2s run @1.2ghz - 3.5ghz

1) Min processor state @ 30% and max processor state @ 100% = 1.2-3.5 ghz (full speed step range)

2) Min processor state @ 30% and max processor state @ 99% = 1.2-2.5 ghz (non-turbo mode)

3) Min processor state @ 100% and max processor state @ 100% = 3.1-3.5 ghz (turbo mode)

Note-
In examples 1 and 2, to allow your lowest speed, set the percentage (slightly lower) as the multiplier of max turbo speed (i.e. above, 3.5ghz x 30% = 1.05ghz, to enable the 1.2ghz minimum speed my processors can run at)
This % can be raised to set a higher minimum speed.

In example 2, you can lock the processor at any speed between 1.2ghz and 2.5ghz by raising the min %

In example 3, you can only lock the processor in turbo mode, not to a specific speed.

When idle my 2696 v2s locked in turbo mode, default to a single core @3.5ghz and register a 20w per processor draw, so locking into turbo mode doesn't really increase the power bill or run up temps :D
 

SOFTengCOMPelec

Platinum Member
May 9, 2013
2,417
75
91
E5-2696 v2s and v3s are not ES versions, they have only been released with production s-spec and part numbers. o_O

And yes, you should be able to do it with any E5 (and possibly E3s and E7s, but I haven't tested) :cool:

This works on my Gigabyte GA-7PESH3 w/2x E52696 v2s, so it should work on any board designed for Xeons.

In Windows 7/Server2008 r2 and Windows 8.1/Server 2012 r2, you can force turbo mode by setting the minimum and maximum processor state in power options. ( I never checked Windows 8/Server 2012, but it should work there also)
My E5-2696 v2s run @1.2ghz - 3.5ghz

1) Min processor state @ 30% and max processor state @ 100% = 1.2-3.5 ghz (full speed step range)

2) Min processor state @ 30% and max processor state @ 99% = 1.2-2.5 ghz (non-turbo mode)

3) Min processor state @ 100% and max processor state @ 100% = 3.1-3.5 ghz (turbo mode)

Note-
In examples 1 and 2, to allow your lowest speed, set the percentage (slightly lower) as the multiplier of max turbo speed (i.e. above, 3.5ghz x 30% = 1.05ghz, to enable the 1.2ghz minimum speed my processors can run at)
This % can be raised to set a higher minimum speed.

In example 2, you can lock the processor at any speed between 1.2ghz and 2.5ghz by raising the min %

In example 3, you can only lock the processor in turbo mode, not to a specific speed.

When idle my 2696 v2s locked in turbo mode, default to a single core @3.5ghz and register a 20w per processor draw, so locking into turbo mode doesn't really increase the power bill or run up temps :D

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I wanted to make sure it was NOT an ES, which I would very strongly avoid, because it is strongly rumored that Intel employee(s), stole them directly from Intel, and then sold them (e.g. On ebay). I also worry that an early test release, may have malfunctions (bugs) in it, for certain instruction combinations, etc. The documentation for which would NOT usually be available to the general public.

On reading your posts, I've realized I'd got mixed up.

I thought you meant, that the FULL turbo speed (i.e. single core turbo speed max, available on ALL cores), could be achieved on ALL cores, giving a sort of partial over-clocking (which I don't really like, either, but wanted to know what options are available, as these cpus are VERY expensive).

Nevertheless, even with the approximately 3 speed bins (300 MHz), speed up, full (100%) turbo mode locking gives, is still VERY nice. There are so many cores (on the better parts), these days, that it really adds up, for software which fully utilizes such capabilities.

You have put my mind at rest (that it was NOT an ES part, PHEW!). As those could have been partially/fully unlocked and/or different to the final release parts.

The number of cores, is beginning to get silly (sounding), with it going up by (very approximately) 10%, each generation.

Skylake-EP is probably going to be 18++, and AMD Zen *Might* be 32 cores. But even an AMD Zen at 16 cores, would be interesting if it is a reasonable price, and the IPC rate is competitive.

What I mean is that Skylake-EP might have around 22 cores, even though the standard I7's are still only 4 cores. We did not have such HUGE core count number differences (between top (e.g. I7's) and top Xeons), a long time ago.

tl;dr
The "locked turbo" mode, sounds very interesting, on the ##-EP cpus, as it makes them better value for money, and more processing power for the system.
I previously thought that the "base clock" speed, was the "HARD LIMIT", when ALL cores are running. With no legitimate way of increasing it, as any form of over-clocking, is disabled.