[DX12] Fable Legends Beta Benchmarks

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tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,355
642
121
Lets assume you buy the R9 390 at $300 today, you will not be able to get much faster GPU at $300 next year. Only perhaps +10-15% at half the power.
Not sure if I'd be upset. I'd probably upgrade actually. Power consumption is the thing I hate the most about my card. After an hour or 2 of gaming I stop because my room gets hot.

If I could get the dual gpu card at 300 watt tdp... Ya instant buy.
 

thesmokingman

Platinum Member
May 6, 2010
2,307
231
106
Not sure if I'd be upset. I'd probably upgrade actually. Power consumption is the thing I hate the most about my card. After an hour or 2 of gaming I stop because my room gets hot.

If I could get the dual gpu card at 300 watt tdp... Ya instant buy.


You're room getting hot has more to do with cooling than power consumption. Open a window?
 

96Firebird

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 2010
5,712
316
126
You're room getting hot has more to do with cooling than power consumption. Open a window?

Completely wrong.

Almost 100% of a video card's power use is expelled as heat.

A graphics card that uses 150W and runs at 90°C will expel half as much heat energy compared to a 300W card running at 40°C.
 

thesmokingman

Platinum Member
May 6, 2010
2,307
231
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Completely wrong.

Almost 100% of a video card's power use is expelled as heat.

A graphics card that uses 150W and runs at 90°C will expel half as much heat energy compared to a 300W card running at 40°C.

No one is saying the laws of physics are breaking. It doesn't matter if it's 150w or 300w. Sooner or later it will heat up the whole room, depending on size of room especially if its a closed room. Thus open a window, or evacuate the heated air in said room better.


I like that, "Completely Wrong" lol.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,002
3,357
136
What are you basing that on? Usually node changes come with a huge leap in performance historically.

Go back and see how much the HD6950 was released in 2011 and how much the HD7850 was released in 2012.


2011

HD6970 @ $350
HD6950 @ $250

2012

HD7870 @ $350
HD7850 @ $300

HD7870 was just 5-10% faster than HD6970 at lower power consumption at the same price.
 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
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What are you basing that on? Usually node changes come with a huge leap in performance historically.

Usually node changes came with large transistor cost reduction. Not this time.

Plus lower volume and overall higher cost with design, masks etc.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,355
642
121
No one is saying the laws of physics are breaking. It doesn't matter if it's 150w or 300w. Sooner or later it will heat up the whole room, depending on size of room especially if its a closed room. Thus open a window, or evacuate the heated air in said room better.


I like that, "Completely Wrong" lol.
Or buy a card that's more efficient? Which I would do given the scenario just presented to me?

Opening up the window would raise the temperature in my room 20 degrees to above 90. So no thanks.

He said I probably won't see a massive performance leap next gen but would see lower power consumption. So I said I'd still upgrade for that benefit....

Edit: one of the best parts of the 4770k I have is the power consumption. I love Intel and how they've made a high performance "low" power consumption chip. If high end gpus are at 150 watts that's a dream come true. Especially since I want an hedt, mini pc with as much gpu horsepower as possible. I'm excited thinking about it.
 
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thesmokingman

Platinum Member
May 6, 2010
2,307
231
106
You live in a hot climate? That sucks? In a situation like that, yea, it's a best case scenario to capitalize on consumption savings anywhere you can. The flip side to your situation is if you lived in a cold climate where you'd welcome or not care what consumption was since it'd only serve to keep you warmer. That said, I suppose you could get rather close to an ideal case HEDT with a Nano, though that will cost a pretty penny.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,355
642
121
You live in a hot climate? That sucks? In a situation like that, yea, it's a best case scenario to capitalize on consumption savings anywhere you can. The flip side to your situation is if you lived in a cold climate where you'd welcome or not care what consumption was since it'd only serve to keep you warmer. That said, I suppose you could get rather close to an ideal case HEDT with a Nano, though that will cost a pretty penny.
Hence why I was super excited about nano and want them to continue that trend next gen.

I'd still care about power consumption either way due to power bill but yes I see your point. I'll open my window in December but in Texas, it apparently doesn't get cold. I'm suffering here man I'm from the north east it's still hot. I change clothes for work when I go home to eat lunch because the 2 minute walk to may car leaves me drenched in sweat it's so hot here.

My gaming expenses/tech expenses have just been a little out of control. 5 years + of not gaming or buying tech I guess I'm making up for lost time. I've spent so much on my full gaming setup at this point it's embarrassing to even talk about sometimes lol. I mean my freesync monitor will be the third 1k+ display I've purchased. I'd stop but I love my htpc setup lol. Although most here would hate it haha.

I'm waiting till 2016-2017 so that cases will be out for my new setup now that hedt has small boards. That n1 case looks so cool I want something like that!
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,834
2
26
And I got games using up 6GB of VRAM, I don't see your point.

That the idea that the 970 isn't powerful enough to run games which use all of it is false because it assumes that the only time it needs that much VRAM is at 4k and higher.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Lets assume you buy the R9 390 at $300 today, you will not be able to get much faster GPU at $300 next year. Only perhaps +10% or +15% at half the power.

I don't know about that.

May 2013 = GTX780 $650
November 2013 = R9 290 $400

or

November 2013 = GTX780Ti $699
September 2014 = GTX970 $330 with similar performance, more VRAM, lower power usage, more up-to-date features

Another way to look at it, if GTX970 successor has 1.5X the performance, it ends up faster than the Titan X. Do you honestly think Pascal will offer less than 1.5X the performance/watt increase given it'll have 16nm node shrink + new architecture + HBM?

perfrel_2560.gif


Also, look at the April 2014 R9 295X2. In barely 6 months, that level of performance could be had in $700 GTX970 SLI and in 8 months from launch, R9 295X2 was selling for $600-650. When GTX970/980 came out, GTX780Ti fell from $650-700 to $375-400 on Newegg. Furthermore, next year includes up to December 31, 2016. That's a lot of time for so many new AMD/NV GPUs to launch and price wars.

Even if NV holds back the Big Daddy Pascal and just gives us GTX970/980 successors, the price/performance increase should be dramatic. Go check Newegg right now - most GTX980s are selling for $480+, Fury is selling for $550+. Do you honestly think we won't have a card for $350 as fast as the 980 in 2016 and a card 30% faster than the 980/Fury for $550?

Yes but the mid range ($200-300) doesn't see those benefits for quite a while typically.

Depends on how well the person can time their GPU upgrade. Surely next year cards like GTX970/390 will dip towards the $200 mark and that would represent a 50%+ increase in performance and way more VRAM over the $199 MSRP 960 2GB.

R9 290X cost $549 October 2013. By October 2014 last year when 970 came out, those 290X cards dropped to $300. As I mentioned above, 780Ti's $700 MSRP turned into a $330 GTX970 in just 10 months. In just 2.5 years since $650 780 came out, better performance can be had in a $240 R9 290, $280 R9 390, $280 GTX970.

I am not denying that AMD/NV might charge premiums for the latest SKUs. For example, remember the time when GTX580 cost $500 and it was possible to buy GTX480 for $300? We will always have a situation like that.

Just make a mental note of how much it'll cost to buy $480 GTX980/$550 Fury level of performance by October-December 2016, regardless of what generation/vendor. I bet it's going to be possible for $300-325, or even less.
 
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maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
4,786
4,771
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Isn't this the first time that the new node transistor cost is the same or even a little more expensive than the previous generation? Historical models = ?????
 

antihelten

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,764
274
126
Usually node changes came with large transistor cost reduction.

Isn't this the first time that the new node transistor cost is the same or even a little more expensive than the previous generation? Historical models = ?????

Not really, node changes have historically actually come with fairly large transistor cost increases not decreases. It is only down the line (after 1.5-3 years) that the new node becomes cheaper than the previous node.

The (alleged) difference this time around is that the new nodes might never transition to a level where they are cheaper than the previous node.
 

ocre

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2008
1,594
7
81
Hence why I was super excited about nano and want them to continue that trend next gen.

I'd still care about power consumption either way due to power bill but yes I see your point. I'll open my window in December but in Texas, it apparently doesn't get cold. I'm suffering here man I'm from the north east it's still hot. I change clothes for work when I go home to eat lunch because the 2 minute walk to may car leaves me drenched in sweat it's so hot here.

My gaming expenses/tech expenses have just been a little out of control. 5 years + of not gaming or buying tech I guess I'm making up for lost time. I've spent so much on my full gaming setup at this point it's embarrassing to even talk about sometimes lol. I mean my freesync monitor will be the third 1k+ display I've purchased. I'd stop but I love my htpc setup lol. Although most here would hate it haha.

I'm waiting till 2016-2017 so that cases will be out for my new setup now that hedt has small boards. That n1 case looks so cool I want something like that!

If you stick around, you will get accustom to the heat. Just try to spend a lot of time out doors from the end of winter on thru spring and into the summer. The summers will still be hot but you will adapt.

As for you PC expenditures.....
Why would you be embarrassed? It is your money and your life. There is nothing wrong with spending your own money on things you enjoy. That is what it is all about and it doesnt matter if there are others who dont get it. Its your hobby and it brings you joy. Unless you are maxing out credit cards, burying yourself in mountains of debt with an obsessive spending addiction- you have no reason for shame.

Your hobby is actually great compared to some. Its not dangerous or at odds with any law. There are people out there hooked on really reckless past times. See, we all have interest and we all need outlets. If you worked worked worked and never had no time or money for the things you enjoy and love to do.......what life is that?
 

Gikaseixas

Platinum Member
Jul 1, 2004
2,836
218
106
As for you PC expenditures.....
Why would you be embarrassed? It is your money and your life. There is nothing wrong with spending your own money on things you enjoy. That is what it is all about and it doesnt matter if there are others who dont get it. Its your hobby and it brings you joy. Unless you are maxing out credit cards, burying yourself in mountains of debt with an obsessive spending addiction- you have no reason for shame.

Your hobby is actually great compared to some. Its not dangerous or at odds with any law. There are people out there hooked on really reckless past times. See, we all have interest and we all need outlets. If you worked worked worked and never had no time or money for the things you enjoy and love to do.......what life is that?

Fully agree
Plus I spend way more on other hobbies (Hi fidelity amps, speakers, cables, receivers, source outputs, etc) and do get that guilty feeling sometimes but when I think about it, ocre is right :)
 

littleg

Senior member
Jul 9, 2015
355
38
91
I'd still care about power consumption either way due to power bill but yes I see your point. I'll open my window in December but in Texas, it apparently doesn't get cold. I'm suffering here man I'm from the north east it's still hot. I change clothes for work when I go home to eat lunch because the 2 minute walk to may car leaves me drenched in sweat it's so hot here.

I'm from the cold north of Britain and living in Guangzhou, China, I feel your pain man. :D

I got used to having 3 showers a day now.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,002
3,357
136
I don't know about that.

May 2013 = GTX780 $650
November 2013 = R9 290 $400

or

November 2013 = GTX780Ti $699
September 2014 = GTX970 $330 with similar performance, more VRAM, lower power usage, more up-to-date features

Same 28nm process, next year GPUs will be made from the more expensive 16nm FF.

Another way to look at it, if GTX970 successor has 1.5X the performance, it ends up faster than the Titan X. Do you honestly think Pascal will offer less than 1.5X the performance/watt increase given it'll have 16nm node shrink + new architecture + HBM?

Like 2012 between GTX580 vs GTX680, GTX970/980 successor will step up to GTX980Ti/Titan X.



Even if NV holds back the Big Daddy Pascal and just gives us GTX970/980 successors, the price/performance increase should be dramatic. Go check Newegg right now - most GTX980s are selling for $480+, Fury is selling for $550+. Do you honestly think we won't have a card for $350 as fast as the 980 in 2016 and a card 30% faster than the 980/Fury for $550?

2016

Im expecting a GP204 (Pascal) to be 15-30% faster than GM200 (GTX980Ti) at half the power BUT AT THE SAME Price of $750.
 

desprado

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2013
1,645
0
0
Same 28nm process, next year GPUs will be made from the more expensive 16nm FF.



Like 2012 between GTX580 vs GTX680, GTX970/980 successor will step up to GTX980Ti/Titan X.





2016

Im expecting a GP204 (Pascal) to be 15-30% faster than GM200 (GTX980Ti) at half the power BUT AT THE SAME Price of $750.
I can grantee that it will be more than 40% faster but of course expensive.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
I'm from the cold north of Britain and living in Guangzhou, China, I feel your pain man. :D

I got used to having 3 showers a day now.

Dubai 3am - 35C, 6am - 37C, 9am - 36C, 3pm - 38C, 9pm - 38C, 12am (night) - 36C, start over. Chance of precipitation over the next 30 days - less than 5%.

But what makes it unbearably is the humidity. In Central Asia, 38C-40C feels like heaven compared to 38-40C in UAE. :awe:

Same 28nm process, next year GPUs will be made from the more expensive 16nm FF.

Ya, but perf/watt should skyrocket 50-100%. That means a GPU priced at $200 that replaces a 960, $350 that replaces a 970 and $550 that replaces the Fury/980 would smash those cards in performance. Do you think NV will just bump the performance only 15-30% for each segment in 2016? In other words 960 successor just 15-30% faster for $200, 970 successor just 15-30% faster for $330?

Like 2012 between GTX580 vs GTX680, GTX970/980 successor will step up to GTX980Ti/Titan X.

You are forgetting that 680 was 35-40% faster than the 580 and as well forgetting that the level of performance of the 580 dropped to far lower pricing levels. For instance, HD7850 OC traded blows with 580 OC and the former cost just $250 and had 2GB of VRAM vs. 1.5GB on the $450 580. Also, those faster GPUs will eventually start dropping in price. From now until December 2016 is a long time. Don't forget that existing cards will have sales too as they are EOL. R9 390 has already dropped to $280-290, R9 390X can be had for $370-380 and these cards were released just this year.

2016

Im expecting a GP204 (Pascal) to be 15-30% faster than GM200 (GTX980Ti) at half the power BUT AT THE SAME Price of $750.

980Ti came out at $650, not $750 though.

Even if that were true, there is a disproportionate premium for the fastest cards, which leaves room for lower-tier version of GP204 to be priced at a far more reasonable $400-450 level. Furthermore, if GP204 beats GM200 by 15-30%, that's A LOT faster than Fury X which means Fury X will need to drop massively from $650 to $400 or lower to make sense. So no matter how we slice it, by December 2016 the increase in price/performance should be significant from where we are sitting today.
 
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3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
Isn't that why Nvidia requested they turn it off, because it blew hardcore on their hardware?

IE an GCN application of AS is bad for NV hardware since they aren't using hardware for the switching.

Yet, if there is AS in the Fable benchmarks, it didn't crush NV like it did in AOTS.

Again, I'm not saying that Maxwell2 has a better implementation. For all we know it is bare minimums to fit the requirements and claim support. But because it blows doesn't mean it isn't supported.

First off it isn't GCN's implementation. It;s by the book. MSFT DX12 book. People need to quit trying to make it sound like it's anything except an nVidia hardware issue.

2nd, I'm just asking a simple question. Is async compute up and working on any nVidia DX12 cards? Either through software/drivers or on hardware? Special rendering path? Anyway, anyhow?
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
Go back and see how much the HD6950 was released in 2011 and how much the HD7850 was released in 2012.


2011

HD6970 @ $350
HD6950 @ $250

2012

HD7870 @ $350
HD7850 @ $300

HD7870 was just 5-10% faster than HD6970 at lower power consumption at the same price.

That was pre Titan where we had GPU prices double in one generation.