Dwight Howard

[dougp]

Duncan and Nowitzki are pretty classy guys from what I know, so I'd say they are the exception to the rule. However, both are also nearing the end of their careers, they're in a much different position than someone in his prime.

Every year we see plenty of old veterans sign for significantly less money to play on a contender. But has there ever been a superstar player that's in his prime to do it?

Both Dirk and Duncan did it in their prime. Duncan did it to resign Parker and Manu, Dirk did it a few years ago to resign Kidd and go after a few others, IIRC.

 

[Red Storm]

Both Dirk and Duncan did it in their prime. Duncan did it to resign Parker and Manu, Dirk did it a few years ago to resign Kidd and go after a few others, IIRC.

I just checked and Tim & Dirk are among the top 5 highest paid players right now, so they didn't take much of a pay cut at all.

 

[slayer202]

You're right. The Nets(14-29) are on his list, but not the Bulls(35-9). He clearly wants to win a championship.....


"The Orlando Magic would like to seriously engage the Bulls in trade talks for Dwight Howard, but the All-Star center's apparent reluctance to make a long-term commitment to Chicago has all but killed the discussions, league sources told CBSSports.com."



http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/k...t-not-if-the-magic-could-trade-him-to-chicago

Dwight not wanting to go to Chicago does not support any of the incorrect claims you made in your previous post

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Duncan and Nowitzki are pretty classy guys from what I know, so I'd say they are the exception to the rule. However, both are also nearing the end of their careers, they're in a much different position than someone in his prime.

Every year we see plenty of old veterans sign for significantly less money to play on a contender. But has there ever been a superstar player that's in his prime to do it?

Dude Dirk signed that contract 2 years ago. He could of easily signed for more at 32 years old. He could of got a 96.2mil contract and took 80. That's a 16.2mil discount.

 

[Via]

Also, why would they get rid of Deng and his bloated contracted for another, less talented SF for more money?

Deng has been worth every penny of that contract for quite a while now. He's not a legit offensive #2, but he's a piece every championship contender needs, and he's a lockdown defender on top of it.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I just checked and Tim & Dirk are among the top 5 highest paid players right now, so they didn't take much of a pay cut at all.

A 16 million discount isn't enough for Dirk?

 

[dougp]

A 16 million discount isn't enough for Dirk?

Yah, they both shaved off $5mm a year, so more than enough to sign most players. Dirk and Tim are business men, they're not stupid - they know what they're worth and what it'd take. That's far less greedy than most players, especially the 3 in Miami.

 

[Red Storm]

A 16 million discount isn't enough for Dirk?

I'm talking about annual pay, which is the more important number. The salary cap isn't about how much you pay a guy overall, it's about how much you pay each year. Cutting down the number of years has zero effect on a team's ability to sign players in the here and now.

 

[Red Storm]

Yah, they both shaved off $5mm a year, so more than enough to sign most players. Dirk and Tim are business men, they're not stupid - they know what they're worth and what it'd take. That's far less greedy than most players, especially the 3 in Miami.

They shaved off that 5 million because if they didn't they'd be the highest paid players in the league! Is Tim Duncan the best player in the NBA? Not anymore, not by a long shot. Same with Dirk (especially this year, seems like he doesn't care as much now that he's won a title).

Look, I don't like the trio in Miami, but technically speaking they're actually much less greedy than either Duncan or Dirk. Wade, Bosh and James each make between 15 and 16 million. Duncan makes 21M, and Dirk makes 19M.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I'm talking about annual pay, which is the more important number. The salary cap isn't about how much you pay a guy overall, it's about how much you pay each year. Cutting down the number years has zero effect on a team's ability to sign players in the here and now.

Yeah so am I. Dirk could of signed for 24 mil a year since the Mavs had the Bird rights. Just like Orlando can sign Howard to more $$ than anyone else. Dirk took 20 mil a year vs the 24 he could of taken.

 

[slayer202]

What's that theory about how every internet discussion turns into hitler/nazi comparisons?

We need a similar theory about how every NBA thread turns into a Dirk/Dallas discussion

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

What's that theory about how every internet discussion turns into hitler/nazi comparisons?

We need a similar theory about how every NBA thread turns into a Dirk/Dallas discussion

lol. That's probably my fault. Sorry I love Mavs basketball.

 

[dougp]

They shaved off that 5 million because if they didn't they'd be the highest paid players in the league! Is Tim Duncan the best player in the NBA? Not anymore, not by a long shot. Same with Dirk (especially this year, seems like he doesn't care as much now that he's won a title).

Look, I don't like the trio in Miami, but technically speaking they're actually much less greedy than either Duncan or Dirk. Wade, Bosh and James each make between 15 and 16 million. Duncan makes 21M, and Dirk makes 19M.

I'm sorry, but if you can't see how Duncan and Dirk shaving and modifying their salaries when they did was seen as non-greedy, then you have blinders on. Duncan's last contract was signed 5 years ago - it expires this summer. This was in 2007, when he was still considered the best PF in the game, and just earned his 4th ring and 3rd Finals MVP trophy. He could have walked all over the Spurs and asked for a max contract, but he didn't.

 

[Red Storm]

Yeah so am I. Dirk could of signed for 24 mil a year since the Mavs had the Bird rights. Just like Orlando can sign Howard to more $$ than anyone else. Dirk took 20 mil a year vs the 24 he could of taken.

You said 16 million, which is clearly not about his annual pay, but the total amount.

He could have demanded 24 and the Mavs would likely accept out of loyalty, but that would make him overpaid and both he and the Mavs know it.

 

[Red Storm]

I'm sorry, but if you can't see how Duncan and Dirk shaving and modifying their salaries when they did was seen as non-greedy, then you have blinders on. Duncan's last contract was signed 5 years ago - it expires this summer. This was in 2007, when he was still considered the best PF in the game, and just earned his 4th ring and 3rd Finals MVP trophy. He could have walked all over the Spurs and asked for a max contract, but he didn't.

You specifically said the Miami trio are more greedy than them, and I just wanted to refute that cause the numbers disagree with you.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

You said 16 million, which is clearly not about his annual pay, but the total amount.

He could have demanded 24 and the Mavs would likely accept out of loyalty, but that would make him overpaid and both he and the Mavs know it.

Sorry dude you're wrong. Dirk earned every bit of that entire contract in one year last year. To call the run he had last year epic would be an understatement. You'll remember the run Dirk had for the rest of your life and you're not even a mavs fan. Whatever else Dirk gives the mavs after last year is icing on the cake.

 

[dougp]

You specifically said the Miami trio are more greedy than them, and I just wanted to refute that cause the numbers disagree with you.

They are greedy - the 3 of them take up $48mm when the salary cap hovers around $52mm-54mm. $6mm at max to sign the rest of the bench - that's stupid, and why they won't be championship winners (my opinion at least.) If they'd all restructure to give up $2-3mm, the players they could sign would be sick.

 

[Red Storm]

They are greedy - the 3 of them take up $48mm when the salary cap hovers around $52mm-54mm. $6mm at max to sign the rest of the bench - that's stupid, and why they won't be championship winners (my opinion at least.) If they'd all restructure to give up $2-3mm, the players they could sign would be sick.

Duncan's contract is 21 million this year. Lebron, Wade, and Bosh make 5-6 million less, despite being better players (now that Duncan is older). Ergo, Lebron and Wade have not been more greedy than Duncan.

Anyway, trying to get back on topic... what do you guys think will happen with Dwight come trade deadline? Seeing the latest rumors, I think he stays the rest of this year and ORL does a sign and trade in the offseason.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Don't the Magic have to trade him?

The fans will never say this, but he's doing this worse than LeBron did. Tell them you are leaving, or tell them you are staying - you only owe them that much.

LeBron did the EXACT same thing with Cleveland. Identical. He led them to believe they could re-sign him, and then he left in free agency. I'm not faulting LeBron for his decision; I was thrilled that he didn't stay with the Cavs, who I consider one of the worst franchises in professional sports. But he did kind of dick them around for months before he bailed; exactly like Dwight's doing with all this "I want to finish the season in Orlando" talk. If I'm the Magic, I don't trust Howard at all on this and I certainly don't lose him for nothing. I mean, shit, their offer sheet right now is "Dwight, please stay, we'll let you make all the decisions for us on coach/GM/everything else!" If I'm Dwight Howard, that's a team telling me that they have nothing to offer me and I'm bolting. Orlando should realize that.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

They are greedy - the 3 of them take up $48mm when the salary cap hovers around $52mm-54mm. $6mm at max to sign the rest of the bench - that's stupid, and why they won't be championship winners (my opinion at least.) If they'd all restructure to give up $2-3mm, the players they could sign would be sick.

Each one of them took 4-5 million less than a max contract so they could all sign together, and now they're arguably the best team in the league. How exactly is that indicative of greed? Wade and James intentionally took less than Bosh because they have more lucrative endorsement deals than he does even though they clearly deserve to be better paid than him... That's not greed, that's three guys coming together and saying "How can we structure our contracts so we can win?" And it's working.

 

[Red Storm]

LeBron did the EXACT same thing with Cleveland. Identical. He led them to believe they could re-sign him, and then he left in free agency. I'm not faulting LeBron for his decision; I was thrilled that he didn't stay with the Cavs, who I consider one of the worst franchises in professional sports. But he did kind of dick them around for months before he bailed; exactly like Dwight's doing with all this "I want to finish the season in Orlando" talk. If I'm the Magic, I don't trust Howard at all on this and I certainly don't lose him for nothing. I mean, shit, their offer sheet right now is "Dwight, please stay, we'll let you make all the decisions for us on coach/GM/everything else!" If I'm Dwight Howard, that's a team telling me that they have nothing to offer me and I'm bolting. Orlando should realize that.

Yeah, "The Decision" was quite possibly the worst way to go about doing that.

They just don't make superstars like they used to, although Durant and Rose are two beacons of hope.

 

[Via]

Does the NBA factor in the lack of state income tax in Florida?

I know they factor in Canadian dollars (the Raptors have to pay in US dollars).

 

[slayer202]

LeBron did the EXACT same thing with Cleveland. Identical. He led them to believe they could re-sign him, and then he left in free agency. I'm not faulting LeBron for his decision; I was thrilled that he didn't stay with the Cavs, who I consider one of the worst franchises in professional sports. But he did kind of dick them around for months before he bailed; exactly like Dwight's doing with all this "I want to finish the season in Orlando" talk. If I'm the Magic, I don't trust Howard at all on this and I certainly don't lose him for nothing. I mean, shit, their offer sheet right now is "Dwight, please stay, we'll let you make all the decisions for us on coach/GM/everything else!" If I'm Dwight Howard, that's a team telling me that they have nothing to offer me and I'm bolting. Orlando should realize that.

How are people still comparing Dwight to Lebron? It's not even close

Dwight asked for a trade before this season. He didn't get it. Now he plans on leaving after this year so his new team doesn't need to give up pieces in a trade. It is widely reported that he is going to be gone. Lebron was completely different and lots of people were confident he was going to stay in Cleveland

 

[Red Storm]

How are people still comparing Dwight to Lebron? It's not even close

Dwight asked for a trade before this season. He didn't get it. Now he plans on leaving after this year so his new team doesn't need to give up pieces in a trade. It is widely reported that he is going to be gone. Lebron was completely different and lots of people were confident he was going to stay in Cleveland

The problem with leaving via free agency is that you can only sign for a team that has the cap space, which generally means a team that is not contending to win a title. Seems like Dallas will have the cap room this summer though, so it will be interesting to see what Dwight decides. Going to Brooklyn/New Jersey seems idiotic, that team isn't a contender even with Howard and Williams and the whole Jay-Z thing gets talked up way too much. He owns 1% more of the team than I do.

 

[Schfifty Five]

As a huge Mavs fan, I feel like I'm owed a superstar team, after being forced to go through such a horrible season thus far.