DVR software for network TV tuner recommendation

[IndyColtsFan]

I purchased the SiliconDust HDHomeRun DUAL tuner (HDHR3-US) from Amazon last night since it was less than $60 on sale. In addition to using it to watch TV from our tablets or PCs, what I'm looking to do is to make it a network DVR. Ideally, I'd like to have it record shows and dump the shows to a folder served by my Plex server so the recordings can be seen on any of my TVs.

To do this, my intention is to run a virtual machine on my Plex Server which will house the media software. This is where I'm looking for recommendations. The main requirement for me is that the media software offer web functionality so that we can pull up a web page to schedule recordings. BeyondTV has this and I can always fall back on that, but it is old and not supported and I'd prefer something more modern. Any suggestions?

By the way, at some point I am going to get the cablecard version of the tuner, but I thought this was a cheap way to get a network tuner for me to experiment with. So I'm hoping any software I select would apply to the cablecard tuner in the future as well (I don't see why it wouldn't, but I thought I'd throw that out there).

 

[destrekor]

Since I've only worked with CableCARD in recent years, I'm not entirely sure just what is all possible with your standard tuner. But I hate to break it to you, doing any kind of centralized recording and sharing system isn't going to be possible with CableCARD.

If your television provider does not set any DRM flags, and it's not required by any particular channel (not sure if channels like AMC require it, or if my cable company sets it), then you do have a wide range of options. But if you record anything that has a copy-once flag, that means you cannot playback that media anywhere else except for the exact device it was recorded too - and in WMC, to boot.

Oh, and btw, for CableCARD support (at least, specifically with support for DRM'd channels), Windows Media Center is the only option. Not even a live-transcoding program, channel-skip tagging program, or any other kind of media interface, will touch a DRM'd WMC file.

For the Dual, you should have a wide range of options, ones I'm not really qualified to speak about because I only have experience with Windows Media Center due to these limitations.
But if you are seriously planning on CableCARD support, you should be aware of the serious limitations you'll encounter.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Thanks for the info on the CableCARD limitations. That really sucks, but at least I should be able to proceed with this tuner. FWIW, I have Bright House (Time Warner cable) so I'm not sure what kind of flags they set.

 

[destrekor]

Thanks for the info on the CableCARD limitations. That really sucks, but at least I should be able to proceed with this tuner. FWIW, I have Bright House (Time Warner cable) so I'm not sure what kind of flags they set.

Something which would be said, however, is that the network tuner ability is still present. What may be difficult to achieve, if not impossible, is setting up a centralized recording system. Centralized storage is very possible, btw, which may still be practical even if not as fully useful as it could be.

Not sure about the Dual, but I have the HDHR Prime, and, while the limitations I described still limit possibilities, I can have multiple network devices with Windows Media Center (WMC Extenders work too, but that is a tricky world too - the rules change depending on OS and WMC Extender device. I don't own any, btw, just relaying knowledge), and so long as I have available tuners (they aren't recording something or being used to watch live tv), I can pull up live TV, or even set up a local recording, on my main desktop. If I record, and it's flagged, it could only be watched on my desktop. If it's not flagged, I should be able to copy or move the recording file and watch it anywhere - never tried but should work.

It's great to be able to have a game on the living room TV, and if I want, I can continue watching it on my computer while I putz around.

 

[jhbball]

What channels are you planning on tuning? Just a FYI, with Comcast, nearly all the QAM channels are flagged as 'encrypted' in WMC (despite being available in HDHomerun Quick View software). If time warner is anything like Comcast, you may have some difficulty viewing the channels you want.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

What channels are you planning on tuning? Just a FYI, with Comcast, nearly all the QAM channels are flagged as 'encrypted' in WMC (despite being available in HDHomerun Quick View software). If time warner is anything like Comcast, you may have some difficulty viewing the channels you want.

Many (most?) channels under channel 100 appear to be clear QAM and aren't encrypted. The TV in my Man Cave is directly connected to the wall (no cable box) and I can see most of these channels with no issues (such as History Channel on Channel 55, the local channels, AMC on Channel 27, etc). So at least currently, I should have access to a sizable chunk of my channels with the network tuner and should be able to use it to record from those. We have a DVR from the cable company that we can use for the other channels above 100.

I'm thinking I may just use BeyondTV as the software or perhaps try NextPVR. I was a BeyondTV user for many years and am pretty familiar with it. Too bad Snapstream doesn't support it anymore.

 

[destrekor]

What channels are you planning on tuning? Just a FYI, with Comcast, nearly all the QAM channels are flagged as 'encrypted' in WMC (despite being available in HDHomerun Quick View software). If time warner is anything like Comcast, you may have some difficulty viewing the channels you want.

Encrypted should be different than DRM.

Basically all channels are encrypted. What you need to remove encryption depends - it could be a basic tuner, could require a CableCARD.

QAM is encryption. Think of encryption here as protecting content over the line, not acting as DRM to prevent copy-rights.

This just requires you to have the appropriate equipment to tune in. Some channels, from there, will have the copy-once flag enabled (or otherwise, is "copy-freely", aka DRM-free). I believe Quick View might be able to always view such channels, as it's not a recorder.
But any application that immediately begins to record (for ability to pause live TV), cannot view channels set to Copy-Once unless it is approved to handle that DRM. Thus far, I do believe Microsoft is the only one who can handle Copy-Once channels delivered by CableCARD... I'm unsure about DRM channels in general, although I'm pretty confident CableCARD is the only solution for content delivery with the Copy-Once flag - I don't think DRM is possible for content delivered over QAM and OTA tuners, which is why CableCARD is the only way to get quite access to most channels.
WMC is the only recording application cable of accessing content marked with Copy-Once. Now, viewers alone (no PVR/DVR capability), should have no problems with that. BTW, some channels basically have the Copy-Once flag set permanently, sometimes that flag is only enabled for particular content on a given channel.

 

[Binky]

You can do some of this with Win7 media center to record and an extender at every TV (xbox360 or ceton). I'm not sure why you'd want to use plex for this, but maybe I'm missing something.

The web based programming may not be needed with this setup, since you can change recording schedules at any of the TV's through the extender.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

You can do some of this with Win7 media center to record and an extender at every TV (xbox360 or ceton). I'm not sure why you'd want to use plex for this, but maybe I'm missing something.

Rokus, via their Plex channel, would be used to play the recorded videos back around the house. At one time, I had a WMC server and it had BeyondTV on it. BeyondTV would record the files into a folder published by WMC so that they could be watched anywhere with media extenders, as BeyondTV spanked WMC up one side and down the other on features.

The web based programming may not be needed with this setup, since you can change recording schedules at any of the TV's through the extender.

I've standardized on Plex and Roku. I personally don't like the Windows Media Center ecosystem and think Windows Media Extenders are too expensive and kludgy. I have 2 Xboxes and used them for extenders for awhile and just didn't like them. My philosophy has been to migrate towards putting the power and resources on the backend and eliminating individual HTPCs and expensive WMC extenders. As a result, I have Rokus at every TV and a monster server on the backend running lots of VMs and storage. HTPCs are just needlessly complicated, power hogs, and after having one for many years (since 2003 or 2004), I decided a couple of years ago to get rid of them.

I have seen discussions about a possible WMC channel for Plex or the Roku, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[destrekor]

Rokus, via their Plex channel, would be used to play the recorded videos back around the house. At one time, I had a WMC server and it had BeyondTV on it. BeyondTV would record the files into a folder published by WMC so that they could be watched anywhere with media extenders, as BeyondTV spanked WMC up one side and down the other on features.

I've standardized on Plex and Roku. I personally don't like the Windows Media Center ecosystem and think Windows Media Extenders are too expensive and kludgy. I have 2 Xboxes and used them for extenders for awhile and just didn't like them. My philosophy has been to migrate towards putting the power and resources on the backend and eliminating individual HTPCs and expensive WMC extenders. As a result, I have Rokus at every TV and a monster server on the backend running lots of VMs and storage. HTPCs are just needlessly complicated, power hogs, and after having one for many years (since 2003 or 2004), I decided a couple of years ago to get rid of them.

I have seen discussions about a possible WMC channel for Plex or the Roku, but I'm not holding my breath.

When you're doing it for multiple TVs, then yeah, actual full HTPCs at every TV would be a huge waste. Thin-client systems with a server make it awesome.
The server route would be the same as an HTPC route on a solo TV setup - or at least solo for TVs that aren't already connected to computers.

When I upgraded from my 32" 720p LCD to the 50" Panny plasma in the living room, I put the LCD on top of my desk/hutch in my bedroom, and connected it to my main desktop. Not very efficient/comfortable when I'm at my desk, but laying back in bed? And just having, say, a game on while trying to multi-task? Nice.
Half the time, I usually just open up Media Center and drag it to one of the 23" monitors. Odd limitation I've had, in true full screen, you can't leave it and move the mouse focus to another monitor. Some full-screen apps like most games do that, some, like flash video, don't require focus. Minor gripe, easy to resize window to almost full screen and not care.


I fear you won't be able to entirely get what you want, not without some fancy hackery (even then... I dunno), if you ever go the CableCARD route.
If you do figure something out, PLEASE SHARE! That will be something I'd love to utilize too in the future.

 

[notposting]

QAM is just the transmission method cable uses here. It can be encrypted optionally, and most cable providers will be encrypting all channels soon. Comcast is phasing it in nationwide (they just hit here in the Detroit area). This will render things like the old HDHomerun essentially useless (except for OTA/ATSC, obviously). They want a (rental) box on every outlet. No more pay for the fancy digital box in living room and just have a couple regular outlets in bedrooms or kitchen. Nope. YOU WILL PAY, MINION!

 

[destrekor]

QAM is just the transmission method cable uses here. It can be encrypted optionally, and most cable providers will be encrypting all channels soon. Comcast is phasing it in nationwide (they just hit here in the Detroit area). This will render things like the old HDHomerun essentially useless (except for OTA/ATSC, obviously). They want a (rental) box on every outlet. No more pay for the fancy digital box in living room and just have a couple regular outlets in bedrooms or kitchen. Nope. YOU WILL PAY, MINION!

The FCC has been getting a little feisty as of late. The interim president was making many moves while she had the chance, very positive steps in the regulation of media in various areas of technology. And the new president seems to be sharing the same immediacy, whereas the FCC used to be very slow and, well, ineffective.. nah, they were previously completely incompetent at any pro-consumer regulations.

Things are looking bright - there may be hope yet that some serious cable regulations and deregulations are on the horizon. They had previously met and discussed, several times, these kinds of topics, but nothing ever came of them. As Cable hunkers down for control - easily, since technology is adapted at high rate these dates - over media and IP services of all sorts, the FCC has the history of acknowledging it when timely. Hopefully, as the FCC refocuses efforts after whatever priority work they have now, they'll see an opportunity.
I previously had no hope, but I'm actually thinking there's a chance of some highly-demanded changes in a few arenas in which most of us on this forum have interests.

 

[Dirigible]

I use the hdhomerun prime. Comcast channels I get are copy freely. Windows does the dvr work. Dvr computer sleeps when not in use, wakes up to record, moves the recording to the home server when complete, then goes back to sleep.

I have three tvs in the house. All have htpcs, one of which is the dvr computer. I watch recordings in either windows media center or xbmc, whichever I have open.

It works well for me. The htpcs also function as cable boxes so I get hd non-recorded cable channels at all tvs without additional cable fees.

 

[Alan G]

The FCC has been getting a little feisty as of late.
Things are looking bright - there may be hope yet that some serious cable regulations and deregulations are on the horizon. They had previously met and discussed, several times, these kinds of topics, but nothing ever came of them. As Cable hunkers down for control - easily, since technology is adapted at high rate these dates - over media and IP services of all sorts, the FCC has the history of acknowledging it when timely. Hopefully, as the FCC refocuses efforts after whatever priority work they have now, they'll see an opportunity.

It's not so much the FCC but localities where cable regulation can be problematic. In my area the county first granted Comcast an exclusive license to market cable that ran for a number of years. We had no competition and prices were artificially high. Eventually enough of us pushed them to open the marketplace and soon afterwards we had Verizon and RCN in the market (along with satellite vendors who were not affected by the cable regulations). One might argue that prices are still high and the fact that we still have to purchase bundles rather than individual channels is still a waste in my mind (I can't remember ever watching any of the home marketing channels and wonder who does).

I think the FCC comes into play in terms of allowing Cable Card set ups by third parties and home builders as an alternative to renting hardware from the cable provider. At any rate it's a complicated issue to be sure.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

So has anyone used NextPVR, especially any former BeyondTV users? To be clear, the ability to schedule recordings via a web interface is more for my wife's benefit than mine. I can just give her a link, some credentials, and she can easily schedule recordings. BeyondTV allows that and works very well, but since it isn't being developed any longer, I'd consider NextPVR.

 

[destrekor]

It's not so much the FCC but localities where cable regulation can be problematic. In my area the county first granted Comcast an exclusive license to market cable that ran for a number of years. We had no competition and prices were artificially high. Eventually enough of us pushed them to open the marketplace and soon afterwards we had Verizon and RCN in the market (along with satellite vendors who were not affected by the cable regulations). One might argue that prices are still high and the fact that we still have to purchase bundles rather than individual channels is still a waste in my mind (I can't remember ever watching any of the home marketing channels and wonder who does).

I think the FCC comes into play in terms of allowing Cable Card set ups by third parties and home builders as an alternative to renting hardware from the cable provider. At any rate it's a complicated issue to be sure.

I think the FCC is involved in quite of bit of the pricing and structure of the cable market - or at least, they have a heavy say in what happens, but in some cases they do leave things as suggestions and pass on decisions to states/local entities (local franchise operators).

Regulation of the cable industry, by the FCC, definitely pertains to more than just the devices and access regulations.
There is much that can be changed in the industry, be it by altering previous regulations or making new ones.

 

[destrekor]

So has anyone used NextPVR, especially any former BeyondTV users? To be clear, the ability to schedule recordings via a web interface is more for my wife's benefit than mine. I can just give her a link, some credentials, and she can easily schedule recordings. BeyondTV allows that and works very well, but since it isn't being developed any longer, I'd consider NextPVR.

If you are preparing for routes that also work with CableCARD, I can help you there, as I have a setup to accomplish the same task.

Ultimately, it requires server software on the HTPC (on the PC that has the actual recording duties), and, depending on your network configuration, some kind of dynamic DNS agent. I'm using no-ip.com - it's free, but it requires a monthly check-in on the website so that they know you're DNS entry is still alive and needed.
You can update using an auto agent installed on the "server" or you can configure a compatible router to handle the task.
I've heard you can still get a no-limit free account at dyndns, by signing up for the trial and not canceling (google it - you might actually have to cancel and remove a credit card, or not... I can't remember, never bothered).

http://myfrem.nl/download.html
http://www.remotepotato.com/downloads.aspx

What basically happened, I think, is the previous developer sort of quit, the project still lives. Or something like that. Myfrem is where all latest news, links for the windows-based server, and links to mobile markets.

Now, the mobile presentation is clunky as all hell, which is disappointing. But the web interface ain't half bad at all.

I don't know if there are other solutions for Windows Media Center, but that's what I've been using to accomplish what you're after. It also allows for streaming of TV, live or recorded (live is sort of playshifted, as it starts recording first - I think that's how the software handles streaming. I haven't had much luck with weak 4G signals where I've tested, and limited (3mbps?) upload where the HTPC resides. That's trying to stream the 3GB/hour recording format (roughly that size, only took a quick glance awhile ago), since it's MPEG2. If you setup some kind of transcoding system (I think impossible for any DRM content, but should be easily accomplished for copy-freely content, encrypted or not), you can definitely save space and stream over the internet easier.
Browsing the guide, setting up recordings, managing recordings (including series recordings), etc... all possible from remote interaction.

You could just save a link that includes whatever your dynamic dns website is, following by the specific port (which, oh yeah, a few need to be opened up on the router). There's a username and password you have to setup on the remote agent server, which you'd pass out to family for access.


If you do go the WMC route but find a different tool, let me know. I simply use it, mainly, so I can remotely schedule recordings when I forget. On Android, the experience is incredibly clunky - though I am able to get the job done at least.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

If you are preparing for routes that also work with CableCARD, I can help you there, as I have a setup to accomplish the same task.

Ultimately, it requires server software on the HTPC (on the PC that has the actual recording duties), and, depending on your network configuration, some kind of dynamic DNS agent. I'm using no-ip.com - it's free, but it requires a monthly check-in on the website so that they know you're DNS entry is still alive and needed.

You can update using an auto agent installed on the "server" or you can configure a compatible router to handle the task.
I've heard you can still get a no-limit free account at dyndns, by signing up for the trial and not canceling (google it - you might actually have to cancel and remove a credit card, or not... I can't remember, never bothered).

Yeah, I host about 20 servers internally at home and have DynDNS configured for various DNS records. My router is D-Link and D-Link had some sort of agreement with DynDNS for free accounts. Prior to that, I did have a free DynDNS.org but inexplicably earlier this year, it stopped working for some weird reason.

http://myfrem.nl/download.html
http://www.remotepotato.com/downloads.aspx

What basically happened, I think, is the previous developer sort of quit, the project still lives. Or something like that. Myfrem is where all latest news, links for the windows-based server, and links to mobile markets.

Now, the mobile presentation is clunky as all hell, which is disappointing. But the web interface ain't half bad at all.

I don't know if there are other solutions for Windows Media Center, but that's what I've been using to accomplish what you're after. It also allows for streaming of TV, live or recorded (live is sort of playshifted, as it starts recording first - I think that's how the software handles streaming. I haven't had much luck with weak 4G signals where I've tested, and limited (3mbps?) upload where the HTPC resides. That's trying to stream the 3GB/hour recording format (roughly that size, only took a quick glance awhile ago), since it's MPEG2. If you setup some kind of transcoding system (I think impossible for any DRM content, but should be easily accomplished for copy-freely content, encrypted or not), you can definitely save space and stream over the internet easier.
Browsing the guide, setting up recordings, managing recordings (including series recordings), etc... all possible from remote interaction.

You could just save a link that includes whatever your dynamic dns website is, following by the specific port (which, oh yeah, a few need to be opened up on the router). There's a username and password you have to setup on the remote agent server, which you'd pass out to family for access.


If you do go the WMC route but find a different tool, let me know. I simply use it, mainly, so I can remotely schedule recordings when I forget. On Android, the experience is incredibly clunky - though I am able to get the job done at least.

Thanks, I'll check some of these out. I'm discouraged from going the cableCard route at this point based on some of the limitations I've read here and following up with some research on how some of Bright House's content is being flagged. I may just end up sticking with this tuner for now and maybe add another at some point. If they decide to encrypt ALL of my channels, I have a huge antenna array in my attic (it was here when I bought the house) which I can try to use for local channels.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Well, that was certainly a rookie mistake on my part. I assumed (naively) that the HDHomeRun would also capture analog signals as well as ATSC and digital QAM. Nope! It only picks up 30 digital channels from my cable and not the good channels like History, AMC, etc. Sigh. I may end up having to build another rig and use my Hauppauge 2250 card or I can try passing a USB tuner through Hyper-V to the VM, though I don't think that will work.

 

[destrekor]

Well, that was certainly a rookie mistake on my part. I assumed (naively) that the HDHomeRun would also capture analog signals as well as ATSC and digital QAM. Nope! It only picks up 30 digital channels from my cable and not the good channels like History, AMC, etc. Sigh. I may end up having to build another rig and use my Hauppauge 2250 card.

eek.
I was never impressed with analog TV capture card image quality, but I require quality IQ so that's important to me.

I have a fair bit of cable channels, but I don't touch anything outside of the HD channel group. :\
I have a roommate that will, but I refuse. It's against my beliefs. lol

 

[IndyColtsFan]

eek.
I was never impressed with analog TV capture card image quality, but I require quality IQ so that's important to me.

I have a fair bit of cable channels, but I don't touch anything outside of the HD channel group. :\
I have a roommate that will, but I refuse. It's against my beliefs. lol

I agree, but I wanted this as a fall-back for when my wife oversubscribes the other DVR. I do have a Hauppauge 2250 dual tuner card that would handle all of it, but I only run server OSes on the 24/7 boxes and it is a PITA to get it running on those.

Nevertheless, it is probably worth keeping because it does have all the locals in hi-definition so we can record from those and stream them to our tablets.