Dumping AMD64-going back to pentium goodness

[slag]

I've figured out the combo I'm going to go with. I'll sell the board/processor with aftermarket socket 754 heatsink for 80 bucks apiece and will be posting it in the fs/ft forum.

Thanks to all for your posts even the trolls ones. Its pretty funny reading suggestions that I've already said I've tried--numerous posts about this.

For those with good suggestions to try, I've tried all of them but left some out in the post i made. I've tried different memory, different video card, etc. I'm pretty sure its a flaky motherboard and a processor that isnt up to snuff.

 

[BTA]

What mb/cpu you thinkin of going with?

 

[slag]

Originally posted by: BTA
For the longest time I was an AMD user, even in the Via+K6 days. I've had Celeron 300A overclocked machines, PIII 500 slot1's, AMD Athlon slotA's, whatever. I've tried it all.

I just recently went from my old (1998 build) P4 1.8A, 1gig of Rambus, Abit TH7-II motherboard setup.

Now I'm running a 3000+ Venice, Chaintech VNF4/Ultra, 2gigs of mushkin.

You know what, the new setup works fine for games and such, but my old P4 system was still smoother in windows applications. And this is without Hyperthreading. Multitasking is quite different between the machines.

Both systems were/are overclocked. I took them as high as they'll go and be 100% stable. And I mean really 100% stable, you people who think you can run some torture test benchmarks and call yourself stable are fooling yourselves. I dunno how many times I've seen fanboys of either company babble on about "i ran prime95 for 24 hours, I can run 3dmark all day" but then get them into an actual game and they crash like you wouldnt believe. And the first thing they'll say is "it's stable it was just a freak crash".

Sorry I dont stand for freak crashes, not since the Windows 98 days (well okay Windows ME, but I like to forget about that).

I like my new system, it plays games fine and it's stable now that I screwed with it enough. But really, I'm getting too old to be messing around with a new system build for hours just to get a stable system. (overclocked or not).

I'm honestly thinking of going back to an Intel system to see how the newer products are.
Probably wait till the end of the year though in case something new and wonderful is in the works from either side.

Couldnt agree more. I work full time, have 2 kids, wife, etc, its summer, and I really dont want to spend countless hours in the den futzing with my computer stability problems and not being able to track down the problem. After awhile, its better to just chuck the entire thing and start from scratch. My time is worth more than the headache trying to figure this out.

 

[Topweasel]

Slag, I am sorry if you felt people were taking stabs at you. But look knowing alot of members are AMD guys when you state your haivng a problem when you shouldn't be most people will feel compelled to help (wether you asked for it or not) then when they try to help you, you slag (haha no pun inteanded ) them because you didn't ask for help with that you kind of hurt their feelings (even the people who didn't help in the first place). Now I can't help you pick anything out, but i will warn you by going Intel you will get lower performance in most things, your CPU will run hotter, and performance wise overclocking will be worthless because not only is your CPU running so high MHz wise that any imporvement will mean little % wise but the P4 doesn't ramp Linearly (horrible spelling) meaning it will gain less and less performance on a given set number increase in MHZ. This means that going from a 3.2 GHz to a 3.4GHz Will give you a Larger raw increase (not %) in performance then from 3.4 to 3.6.

So if your looking for a more stable machine don't plan on overclocking its not even worth it.

 

[Joepublic2]

It really sounds like you have a defective component. If it passes prime95 amd memtest, yet still randomly crashes, it's almost certainly a defective motherboard or failing power supply. Since you've already tried different power supplies, it has to be the RAM or the motherboard.

As for the Intel system, Pentium D motherboards have really come down in price. With DDR2 at a price pairity with DDR, a Pentium D platform is an excellent value right now. This is the system I would build if buying today:

(Damnit, Newegg hasn't been updated the old version of their site. The new version sucks IMO. Pull out a menu, scroll, and the menu closes.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116213 $248.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131538 $134.00

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141224 $178.00

Total: $560.99

 

[Zebo]

Get it down to $460 with this memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=20-145-526&depa=1

 

[Joepublic2]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Get it down to $460 with this memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=20-145-526&depa=1

I should have asked. Slag, do you play Everquest 2, World of Warcraft or Battlefield 2? Or do alot of video/photo editing?

 

[slag]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
What brand/model of modules are you using, and what memory voltage are you giving them, slag?

Samsung tccd, using stock voltage up to 2.8 also used Generic pc3200 memory with same voltages.

Same level of (in)stability. I dont have 1 gig sticks so i am forced to use 2x512. I can use my memory in 1-2 or 1-3, but not 2-3 or it refuses to boot up.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: slag

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: ketchup79
Looks like it could be a memory problem. Run your memory at 2T and with the DDR333 divider. That's what I had to do with mine.

Actually, he 's checked the memory, run different mobos, different processors...
It's obviously NOT an AMD or AMD platform problem. (which I'm sure he NOW realizes).
The only thing common to all of this is the PSU (and a weak or unstable PSU would do everything he has mentioned...)

No. I've tried 2 different power supplies as stated in the original post.

A super flower 520? and an Enermax 465pe. Same results. I seriously think the board is flaky and the processor has issues also.

Ummm...you also said you've tried different boards and different processors. Could this be simple Operator Error? As nobody else is having these issues, I must assume that something else is wrong...

 

[Nanobaud]

I know the OP didn't ask for any more help troubleshooting his AMD system, but presuming others following this thread may be interested, I recently had a 939 CPU and Motherboard go bad at the same time. I was fortunately able to get my hands on enough spare parts to demonstrate this conclusively, RMA'd both parts, and now all is fine. I didn't determine the actual failure of the motherboard, but I'm pretty certain the memory controller on the CPU was misbehaving. During testing, I definitely developed the impression (but did not follow up to the level of establishing) that it is possible for the NF4 motherboard to fail in such a way as to also damage the CPU (and perhaps the memory as well, but luckily no such problem that time).

Just to get past any first-round of speculation, my powerline-filtering is in good order and it is unlikely (though never impossible) that an external power-surge caused the problem.

nBd

 

[aka1nas]

Which SATA ports did you put the hard drive on? 2 of the 4 ports are not locked on NF3 motherboards and if you do any OCing those SATA ports will be running on an OCed bus, quite likely causing data corruption and instability.

 

[RichUK]

all i can say is shame

 

[Zebo]

Operator Error

QFT -- Like Paster said, I've had Intel and AMD (like 200 systems total) and never had issues. Only issue I ever had was, that's right, operator error. Too much volts, too much heat, ripping memory off my videocards, expecting to high FSB.. all from overclocking adventures. Never have I put together a box, set bios to "load defaults" and it fails to work. Never have I had a default system crash or hard lock. Knock on wood.

 

[EODetroit]

Or something he hasn't tried replacing yet may actually be faulty. Who knows? If any of you buy his stuff, post your experience with it. Would be interesting to know.

I'd get a non-Prescott 3.0 or 3.2. So get the C revision instead of the E. They run a lot cooler, and I've bought dozens of them for work. They are a great CPU in their own right. We've only recently switched to AMD 3000+s here at work, which are faster and better bang per buck, but no one with the 2.8Cs are complaining.

I used the Asus P4S800D-E Deluxe with the SiS 655TX chipset for as long as Asus made that motherboard. IMO, its perhaps the best motherboard ever made, at least for my non-overclocked business environment anyways, where we custom build every computer we get. And like I said I bought dozens of them... they've been rock solid and I don't think a single one has yet failed. Unfortunately Asus stopped making them and the aftermarket supply has evaporated. That's the point when I finally switched to AMD. But I bet the Asus P4Cs are just as good, just a bit more expensive.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: slag

Originally posted by: mechBgon
What brand/model of modules are you using, and what memory voltage are you giving them, slag?

Samsung tccd, using stock voltage up to 2.8 also used Generic pc3200 memory with same voltages.

Same level of (in)stability. I dont have 1 gig sticks so i am forced to use 2x512. I can use my memory in 1-2 or 1-3, but not 2-3 or it refuses to boot up.

Ironically, when the i865PE/i875P chipsets came out, I was helping a lot of people with their unstable Intel rigs (timings too tight, RAM voltage too low). Wish I had a nickel for every person I spoon-fed their own owners' manual to them, I could buy pizza! :Q

Speaking of which, is your motherboard an EPoX, by any chance?

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: slag

Tried that.. in fact, i'm trying it now. .still unstable.

Hey Slag. What I'd suggest is trying Socket 939. And get a really strong power supply. The 754 boards are a dead end. In fact, I doubt most mfr's are even doing maintenance releases on them anymore. Even if they are, you can bet their big development efforts are going into the newer platforms. Try a 3500+ or 3700+, you won't be sorry.

If you really want Intel, I'd consider the 6xx series. Others may differ....

 

[jfrog]

If AMD you consider:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130468

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103535

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145440

Total: $390


If Intel you decide:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131538

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116197

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145526

Total: $491.85

The choice is yours...

 

[mattburk]

Originally posted by: slag
Not had much luck with the AMD64 scene with crummy nforce 3 drivers, buggy hardware (dfi lanparty 3 and others), and just a flaky system in general so im wanting to go back to Intel and get the most bang for my buck.

I want to use my existing AGP card (6800 OC), on a good overclocking board that will support a processor that does at least 3.5 ghz overclocked using pc3200 Samsung tccd memory.

Ideas on what I should look for?

I am starting to feel the same way. I don't want to give up on amd yet, I think the real culprit is my dfi nf3 250gb mb & chipset. I will give amd one more chance with a asus board and a x2, but if it is not stable forget it.
My dfi board is so unstable, and yes I have updated the bios, adjusted the settings etc.
I never had these stabliity problems with my intel boards.

I think the only thing my board is good for is a oc, not stability or compatiability.

 

[Pabster]

In fairness, the Intel boards use Intel chipsets. AMD boards use chipsets manufactured by a variety of third parties. VIA being the worst, of course.

I'm wishing AMD would have stuck with manufacturing their own chipsets.

Don't let the trolls and fanboys here dissuade you. And don't make any rash decisions.

Perhaps start the AMD rig anew but some new parts, and build the Intel rig as well. Then sell whichever one you don't want

 

[Alkali]

I think nvidia chipset might well be one to avoid in your case. You have said you have tried 3 boards, but were they just all nvidia chipsets?

Another thing.

RAM checks out fine in the memtest tests, yet i sometimes get weird memory errors in world of warcraft and sometimes when i close IE , get memory exception errors.

Alarm bells. Man listen to your PC. Its telling you memory errors, so either its the software messing up (no you have reformmated), the memory paths (motherboard/chipset errors), or the ram is broken (not tested PHYSICALLY using other ram yet as far as I can see).



So in order of importance I would STRONGLY suggest you do the following.
1. Remove ram, and replace using a friends ram. Fill slots with 2x512 that you know work.
2. Use a non-nvidia chipset mobo - maybe you have a mate who is upgrading atm and can borrow it or something.

 

[Keysplayr]

If you want to stay with socket 478, I would hit the ASUS P4P800 with the 865PE chipset and a Northy 3.0 or better. OR you can get the ASUS CT-479 adapter and use a Dothan chip for an unstoppable gaming rig. Faster than AMD in gaming. Check any review and your jaw will drop and you will ask yourself "How?".

OR you can go with a mobo with a 945 chipset (future support for DC processor.) and pick up a 6 series P4. 3.0 or better.