Dude...do you really want a Dell??

[ElFenix]

<< this sorry excuse for purchasing overpriced, underperforming, proprietary crap is the sorriest excuse that I have ever seen. >>

no, its just that he can say, if it goes bad, well, thats dell, they were reliable, his boss says, yeah, they were. no one has been fired in a long time for choosing a dell. and whats this overpriced BS? where else are they going to get it? make it themselves? you've got to be joking! its far simpler to order 6000 systems from dell and have them build it rather than staff a whole department dedicated solely to building computers. and unlike many homebuilt users around here companies will actually PAY for software, dell will make sure they are getting legal copies of windows and office, and if the company is large enough pretty much whatever else is needed. underperforming? by what measure? stability? no. you just don't get it. FPS do not matter to the corporate customer. sisoft and 3dmark scores do not matter. stability and reliability are their number 1 concerns, and dell is one of the best, if not the best, in the industry as far as that is concerned. and as for proprietary, you've already been told about just how proprietary the box is, which is just about none, how many IT depts run around upgrading the mobo on every box they have? just think about it for a while. if thats even possible.

 

[BornStar]

<< I'm in charge of servicing 200+ Dell computers (Optiplex GX100, GX150, Dimension 8500, Inspiron 7000, 7500, Latitude c800, c810, PowerEdge 2550 and a few other models as well), and I think they're just peachy. Generally they run problem free. The most common error is the ID-10-T user who downloads webshots and other misc. crap from the internet.

If I have an easy hardware problem, I get the parts the next day.

If it's something I don't feel like fixing or it could be a few things (the computer won't turn on), a tech comes out the next day and I show him the computer and let him fix it. I'm past the point of proving my manhood by fixing every possible problem that arises. If you have the power to make someone else do work for you, use it.

I also have some older computers built by a local shop and I hate them. I also hate the toshiba laptops that our board members keep breaking. When you have lots of computers to service you want standards, and Dell's offer that.

OTOH, ever compaq desktop computer I've ever tried to fix has been an absolute POS. My wife has to fix micron's at her job and they seem to have plenty of problems too. Gateway another option, but are they going to be around in three years when the warranty expires?

Of course the systems I build at home for friends and family usually have AMD processors and would spank my work Dells any day of the week. >>



I don't think that this is a fair comparison - Dell Business to Dell Home. I also support about 70 Dell computers at my job and was just recently working on replacing the old ones with new Dells. I also have a Dell computer that I use at home. I had a problem with one of the Dells as I was rolling it out at work so I called Dell up (they answered the phone almost immediately) and told them that the computer was reporting a RAM failure. They said OK and promptly sent out a new stick of RAM and a new continuity module. That's the only problem I've had with one of those Dell computers.

Now let's move to my home system. Since I purchased this computer in July of 2000, I have had a total of 8 graphics cards, 8-9 monitors, 3 hard drives, two sticks of RAM, two motherboards, two keyboards, and I had to buy my own mouse because they wouldn't replace my old one that wasn't working properly. I think there is some more stuff but I can't think of it right now. My computer initially shipped with a GeForce 256 when I specifically ordered and paid for a GeForce2 GTS. When I called back to inform them of this mistake, they proceeded to tell me that the GeForce 256 is a better card than the GeForce2 GTS (which it obviously is because 256 > 2

). It took 3 tries to get them to send me the correct card. Since then I've had to have it replaced again and they attempted to ship me an ATI Radeon to replace it which I promptly declined. When my first hard disk failed, the person I got on the phone told me to run Dell's diagnostic disk on it to see if the hard disk was really bad (which is a three hour process), no matter that the disk was making noise and wasn't booting the computer. Finally I convinced them to send me a new HD, but I said I didn't want another 45GB 75GXP, I wanted something else, I would even take a downgrade. The new part came and low and behold, it was a 75GXP that crashed not four days later. They finally sent me a WD400BB which I've been quite happy with. I could go further but I think you get my point. In this period of time, I would say I've spent probably a full week of time on the phone with Dell and probably half of that time on hold.



<< It's true that Dell has some proprietary parts like the motherboard and their chassis but it both cases those components are top quality. In fact the Dell Chassis are inovative and actually provide better airflow than most of the popular Brand Named Chassiss out there. >>



My conscience makes me reply to this. I hate my Dell tower. The airflow is terrible being that there's only one fan (not counting the PSU) and that fan is covered by a shroud directing the fans power onto the processor. I've felt the air coming out of this thing and it's at least twice as powerful without the shroud in place. I installed a Cyclone fan so air would actually move. The fan that they supplied snaps into the case using plastic so it rattles quite a bit and is very loud. The PSU is only 200W which is right on the edge for powering what you see in my signature. I'm not at all impressed.

I think you all know my position towards Dell, so this is where I will close.

 

[BornStar]

Ooooooh, no. I did not just spend all that time writing that response not to have anybody even reply to it!

 

[Red Dawn]

<< hate my Dell tower. The airflow is terrible being that there's only one fan (not counting the PSU) and that fan is covered by a shroud directing the fans power onto the processor >>

I see. Experience is the best teacher. I've been interested in their low Profile systems and from my research I have come to a different conclusion . However I haven't any experience with the model you own nor have I the expeience you have with with all Dell over all so I'm going to give way to your expertise.

 

[Gladwin]

Earlier this year, my mother purchased a dell system with a flat panel monitor. They shipped the everything but the flat panel monitor, and told her that the monitor wouldn't arrive for another month. So, on my suggestion, she cancelled the monitor, and bought a flat panel monitor from tiger direct. Everything is peachy, right? Not really, because Dell still shipped the monitor, and she had to refuse the package. They still charged her credit card for the monitor. She calls up customer support to get them to put a credit on her credit card, and they say "Ok!". She waits a month, and they still haven't reinbursed her card. Then, she calls them to see what the problem is. No problem, Dell says, we have the monitor back here and we just haven't creditted your card yet.

This is a good company? :disgust:

 

[Daniel]

<< This troll, aka titaniumdonut, has left the building.

AnandTech Moderator >>



Hahah, I was waiting to see how long it would be before we saw a line like this one.

 

[SinNisTeR]

man! every thread that guy was in was a flame fest!


that was funny tho.

 

[Spamela]

Dell is fine, as long as someone else (your employer) is paying for it.

 

[UberNeuman]

I don't like Dell because Steven kick my dog!

 

[joohang]

<< This troll, aka titaniumdonut, has left the building.

AnandTech Moderator >>


hahaha

 

[yoda291]

Here's my experiences. With a desktop computer or workstation for a technically minded person, homebuilt is usually the best way to go as most troubleshooting can be done by the owner and the parts have been researched. However, if I(being the technophile I am) was ever gonna set up a mission critical setup(IE, a heavy load server)....I would definitely be goin pre-made (My preference is the netfinity). This is from personal experiences with serving. My homebuilt server spanked the pre-built I replaced it with in every benchmark and, when I had it as my workstation, took every application and process and thread and whatnot I could throw at it without flinching. I figured it'd make a good server and give me an excuse to feed this upgrading addiction I had. So I set it up at work as a heavy load fileserver/application server for the department I worked at at the time and they paid me to support and maintain my own computer. Peachy I thought. Then I realized the hard way that when you're pumping out gigs of data over multiple NICS and generating dynamic content to send out over this network, you tend to strain the computer. Granted, it wasn't anything the machine couldn't handle after a few tweaks here and there, but it was no longer stable. It's one thing to support one user, it's another to support 500 someodd users at once. Needless to say, downtime is not an option. I replaced it with dual netfinities shortly after(I patched the problem by doubling my workstation as a failover) and neither of them flinched once, even tho it was a slower setup. As far as I can tell, the OS settings and everything else was the same, and it might just be me being a moron, but that's stability in my book.

 

[Mani]

Dell business systems are designed for stability first, performance/featureset second (though performance is still solid). Home systems are built for offering a number of choices and high performance, so naturally when you have thousands of possible configurations you're not going to have rock-solid stability. Yet even still an insane amount of testing goes into ALL systems they sell, home or business. However they're fully aware that not every problem can be caught and that's why they have as painless an RMA process as possible. You call them, tell them the problem, a replacement is 2-day expressed to your house. You drop the defective hardware and call airborne to have it picked up. This is why despite their supposed slide in service they're still head and shoulders above any other major computer manufacturer.

And people complaining about proprietary hardware have no idea what they're talking about. From the get-go, Dell has built itself on accepting open standards for development. Nothing except the case and motherboard in their systems is proprietary (and even the mobo is pretty much based on intel reference). And I suppose the components are of poor quality components if you consider crucial, seagate, wd, creative, and nvidia "inferior".

Other people have complained about upgradeability, but how many other cases have screwless PCI card and drive bay brackets? You can pop drives and PCI cards in and out in seconds. And how many other notebooks than the 8000-series have upgradeable CPUs and even graphics cards? And the airflow is remarkable- most cases have air routers, taking CPU heat directly out of the case and ample cooling for the rest of the components.

There are some people in this thread who talk a lot of sh*t about dell but don't seem to have the slightest clue what really goes into their systems.

 

[FrustratedUser]

<< I just found out something that blew me away today. Nobody in town is qualified to work on Dells over here, because Dell uses proprietary parts. I believe working on one will void the warranty.

The only way to get it fixed locally is to contact a local Dell-certified technician.

Get this: To become Dell-Certified, all you have to do is take a test online at their site!!! It only takes an hour and a half! You don't even have to be A+ certified or ANYTHING!!!!:Q:Q:Q

This is REALLY scary. Someone who knows next to nothing about computers could easily be "Dell Qualified" and working on your laptop!

If you have to buy a preconfigured setup by one of the big companies, don't go with Gateway or Dell. They won't let anyone else work on their systems, and many times they have a long turnaround time.

Of course, the best option is a custom-built computer, either by yourself, or Alienware, etc. >>



Well, DELL and such alike are just what companies buy. They are OK and the service (for a company) is pretty good. I just call them up and say: This xxxxxxx doesn't work. Come out here and fix it ASAP. They usually come the same day. (This is for DELL).

 

[crypticlogin]

<< Nothing except the case and motherboard in their systems is proprietary (and even the mobo is pretty much based on intel reference). >>


One of my (few) complaints with Dell is with the proprietary power/switch headers on the motherboard and the power supplies, both of which meet ATX form factors, have ATX connectors, but just aren't electrically ATX kosher. I'm pretty sure that isn't an Intel reference design. It's a pain when the machine's out of warranty and to get a replacement board or PSU usually involves some eBay hunting or lots of $$$ to Dell.

 

[BornStar]

<< Dell business systems are designed for stability first, performance/featureset second (though performance is still solid). Home systems are built for offering a number of choices and high performance, so naturally when you have thousands of possible configurations you're not going to have rock-solid stability. Yet even still an insane amount of testing goes into ALL systems they sell, home or business. However they're fully aware that not every problem can be caught and that's why they have as painless an RMA process as possible. You call them, tell them the problem, a replacement is 2-day expressed to your house. You drop the defective hardware and call airborne to have it picked up. This is why despite their supposed slide in service they're still head and shoulders above any other major computer manufacturer. >>


I'll agree with this. Actually, I get almost all most all of my parts overnighted to me and I couldn't be happier about that. However, for my motherboard, it took 4 days of downtime before that got replaced.



<< And people complaining about proprietary hardware have no idea what they're talking about. From the get-go, Dell has built itself on accepting open standards for development. Nothing except the case and motherboard in their systems is proprietary (and even the mobo is pretty much based on intel reference). And I suppose the components are of poor quality components if you consider crucial, seagate, wd, creative, and nvidia "inferior". >>


You're right, the case, PSU and motherboard are the only parts that are proprietary, however these are some rather important parts because I'd love to replace my PSU, 200 watts is not enough. I've tried overclocking my GeForce2 and I wasn't able to get the memory clock up 5MHz without snow in the image. That does not speak very highly of the quality.



<< Other people have complained about upgradeability, but how many other cases have screwless PCI card and drive bay brackets? You can pop drives and PCI cards in and out in seconds. And how many other notebooks than the 8000-series have upgradeable CPUs and even graphics cards? And the airflow is remarkable- most cases have air routers, taking CPU heat directly out of the case and ample cooling for the rest of the components. >>


How do you figure that there's ample cooling for every other component in the case when the only fan is being monopolized by the CPU? Their cases need a lot of work IMO.



<< There are some people in this thread who talk a lot of sh*t about dell but don't seem to have the slightest clue what really goes into their systems. >>


All I have to say is, I hope that isn't aimed at me.

 

[Instagib]

Quote

Configurable professionally made PC's (Alienware, Falcon Northwest, Voodoo Computers, etc

Don't you mean overpriced as hell.

Buy a dell.

 

[Mani]

<< All I have to say is, I hope that isn't aimed at me. >>



Nope, it was aimed at the people who were saying all of its components were proprietary, shoddy, etc. You gave one of the more objective reviews of it from what I read.

And on the case cooling- I am going off temperature readings. It seems remarkable seeing as some of their systems have only a single fan but the mobo temps I have taken on dell systems I have toyed with have been better than many built by self-professed hardware enthusiasts. On the Geforce thing, they make their components for casual and some power users, but not "hardcore" guys like us - their testing involves no overclocking, just stress testing at default speeds.

 

[ultimatebob]

It depends. I would buy a Dell if it would cost about the same as building the same PC myself, software and labor included.

Buying a pre-built system is usually more expensive than building one, until you throw in the cost of the software and labor. OEM's can usually buy their copies of Windows XP and Office much cheaper than we can, and I think that the eight-hours or so that I would spend putting the computer and installing the OS and software is worth $100 or so.

Of course, if you're installing Linux or using pirated software, you're going to save $200 building it yourself. That's not really a fair comparsion, however, as most Dell's are shipped out the door running a legit copy of Windows and Office.

 

[KentState]

Out of the four Dell systems that we've owned in the past 5 years, not a single one has had any hardware issues. I feel that is a pretty good track record considering that they have been upgraded over that time period. I also don't understand how people state that Dell uses low end parts compared to either Alienwares or even what you buy at Newegg. Think about it, when you buy an OEM harddrive or video card, it's the same thing that the large manufacturer does. I have disected each of my Dell systems, and the components come from many of the recommended manufacturers that we hear about everyday, such as Maxtor, IBM, Seagate, PNY, Samsung Memory, Lite-On, Pioneer, Soundblaster, and so on.

 

[yoda291]

<< Out of the four Dell systems that we've owned in the past 5 years, not a single one has had any hardware issues. I feel that is a pretty good track record considering that they have been upgraded over that time period. I also don't understand how people state that Dell uses low end parts compared to either Alienwares or even what you buy at Newegg. Think about it, when you buy an OEM harddrive or video card, it's the same thing that the large manufacturer does. I have disected each of my Dell systems, and the components come from many of the recommended manufacturers that we hear about everyday, such as Maxtor, IBM, Seagate, PNY, Samsung Memory, Lite-On, Pioneer, Soundblaster, and so on. >>



I think the fact is that most power users don't put much or any value on the warranties given out, since that's what you really end up paying for. For the cost of a system at dell, a skilled tech could research and assemble a PC that would spank the dell in performance and features and be every inch as stable. Heck, even since the IBM incident, I have amended my server building ways and could build a reliable mission critical server too. I imagine the reason for this is that most of us do our own tech support and, for the most part, know vast quantities more than the technician who has to follow what dell says the proper troubleshooting procedure is. If we go on the other side of the spectrum for the falcons and alienwares, those are systems that techies would've built themselves, but now they no longer have to deal with the hassles of construction, get a mean lookin case, and can get replacement parts years after they fail. Dell is just too much of the "jack of all trades" route for most advanced users because, as the saying goes, "jack of all trades master of none".

 

[BornStar]

<< And on the case cooling- I am going off temperature readings. It seems remarkable seeing as some of their systems have only a single fan but the mobo temps I have taken on dell systems I have toyed with have been better than many built by self-professed hardware enthusiasts. On the Geforce thing, they make their components for casual and some power users, but not "hardcore" guys like us - their testing involves no overclocking, just stress testing at default speeds. >>


I think the lack of heat stems partly from the fact that I run a PIII in my system which is a relatively cool processor to begin with as well as a GeForce2 which is also pretty cool. I've taken the side off of my computer while it's running and touched the heatsink; I could leave my hand there all day and it would still feel cool.


<< It depends. I would buy a Dell if it would cost about the same as building the same PC myself, software and labor included.

Buying a pre-built system is usually more expensive than building one, until you throw in the cost of the software and labor. OEM's can usually buy their copies of Windows XP and Office much cheaper than we can, and I think that the eight-hours or so that I would spend putting the computer and installing the OS and software is worth $100 or so.

Of course, if you're installing Linux or using pirated software, you're going to save $200 building it yourself. That's not really a fair comparsion, however, as most Dell's are shipped out the door running a legit copy of Windows and Office. >>


This is exactly the reason that I wish I had just built my own computer. MS has an agreement with Purdue so I get the latest release of Office, Windows, Front Page and Visual Studio for $5 per title. I can only buy one copy of each, but that's all I need. Assuming I decide I need all of those, that's over $1000 I just saved and an unnecessary expenditure from Dell. Had I to do it over again, I can guarantee you that I would build my own computer. Ah well, hindsight is 20-20.

 

[ElFenix]

<< You're right, the case, PSU and motherboard are the only parts that are proprietary, however these are some rather important parts because I'd love to replace my PSU, 200 watts is not enough. I've tried overclocking my GeForce2 and I wasn't able to get the memory clock up 5MHz without snow in the image. That does not speak very highly of the quality. >>

my gf256 oc's in my dimension oc's to 200mhz ram, and the gf256 ate more power than the gf2 did. i do have a cumine 700 in there, but also 3 hard drives at one point, and the 200 watt PS didn't flinch. i'm going to blame the ram on your gf2. plus, the pinout on the power connector is pretty easily found. i know i've seen it posted here at AT before. and pc power and cooling also sells dell compatible supplies. and wattage isn't quality, line cleanliness and MTBF are quality.

dell is up to shipping 250 watt ps's with the p4s. i dunno about the p6 core boxes though.

 

[kduncan5]

Just my $.02 worth:

My GF has a Dell & I have a Gateway. The only problems we've ever had with either of them were either software oriented or through our own ignorance.

I think her Dell is a helluva PC, but if I ever had to buy a new one for myself I'd be sorely tempted to buy another Gateway. -kd5-

 

[PsychoAndy]

let me share my Dell experience. Bought a machine 2 ears ago. That was back in the day when 3 year parts, one year onsite labor was standard. 733P3. I like it. It gets the job done fairly well and I havent had a chance to complain yet.

In 2 years stuff that's failed:
5-7 (dont remember exact number) MS intellimouse. EXTREME overuse. I went Logitech optical a short while later.
2 32mb GeForce video cards.
1 128MD stick of RDRAM
1 P991 19" Trinitron monitor

I overused the mouse, dont know how i blew both vid cards, dropped the ram one day, and apparently my monitor needed degaussing.

Dell has overnighted or 2 day delivered thru airborne on every part i have had replaced. i rate the damage at about 50% my fault, 50% defective, but they've always come through on getting my system 100%.

I dont have a problem with proprietary parts or pre built machines. I really wouldnt want to RMA stuff and try getting warranty support for parts on a rig I built. especially when i'm usually the cause of the problem.

Oh, and i put my money where my mouth is. I use and buy Dell proudly. See sig.

 

[Pocatello]

Comparing a Dell with an emachine, are you serious?
Personally, I would prefer to build my own computer, that's my hobby. But I wouldn't mine recomnending a Dell to my friends or family. Dell's customer service is certainly better than mine, since they won't be laughed at or being told how stupid they are not knowing how to shut off the PC properly among other things..