Dual Mobile Xp vs P4 Hyperthreading

[saechaka]

I was going to build a dual mobile xp system but was wondering whether i should go for a regular p4 hyperthreading system. I plan on doing video editing, Divx, games, far cry, and some audio stuff as i record some stuff of my own. it seems hyperthreading does very well in video editing and not really bad in games either. dual xp system will probably cost only $50 more than a ht system. thanks for advice

 

[myocardia]

You'll be very happy with either, assuming you can get the dual mobiles up to ~2.5ghz. Dual mobiles at 2.5ghz would smoke a 3.2ghz P4, even at encoding. But, you might very well be just as happy with an overclocked 3.0C, which is going to encode video well, and game quite nicely, without any of the hassles of trying to overclock a dual-mobile system.

 

[Vette73]

Yea if you are going Dual Barton AthlonXP's then go that way. If reg. Athlon XP/MP's then go 3Ghz P4 (northwood)

 

[mamisano]

I had to make that decision about a week ago when I decided to sell off my A64 Rig. I own a Dual mobile Barton, using it as a server but felt going P4 would be the best decision because the boards have many more features. Just ordered an AI7/P4 3.0C from NewEgg

 

[saechaka]

Originally posted by: myocardia
You'll be very happy with either, assuming you can get the dual mobiles up to ~2.5ghz. Dual mobiles at 2.5ghz would smoke a 3.2ghz P4, even at encoding. But, you might very well be just as happy with an overclocked 3.0C, which is going to encode video well, and game quite nicely, without any of the hassles of trying to overclock a dual-mobile system.

so will dual mobiles encode faster than a p43.0 ht? cause my basic knowledge of hyperthreading is that it is functioning as 2 cpus out of one cpu. so i figure why not just go dual mobile xp system, but i heard that it won't encode faster than a regular p4 3.0 ht. it can run 2 instances without drop in performance.

 

[myocardia]

Two instances? How many hard-drives are you planning on putting into that rig? When you encode video, you only use one software to do the encoding, but most video software these days is SMP-enabled, so it will run twice as fast with a true SMP (dual processor) system. With a P4, it won't run twice as fast, whoever told you that must work for Intel (or be the biggest fanboy of all time), but it will be considerably faster than the same speed P4 without hyperthreading. Hyperthreading emulates two processors. The only way to really get the speed of two processors is by really having two processors. Here's a link for you, and remember that this is a 3.2ghz Prescott, and Prescott's are slower than Northwood's in everything else, but they are faster than Northwood's at video encoding. I actually ordered my mobile Barton within an hour of reading this article.

edit: Oops, maybe I should have included the link! Here it is: link to a 2.5ghz mobile Athlon destroying a 3.2ghz Prescott at everything but media encoding.

 

[somekid617]

lets see the prices and ocablility
2500 moblile- 2500mhz - about $240 or so depending on cooling.

Now that wouldnt compare to a better performing 2.8c overclocked---$400 or so DoC.

Amd 64, horrible overclock for now. If u bought a 64 bit system now ud pay---$400 id guess.. But then !!! U would have to get the next nforce revision to Overclock the thing due to pci lock. That would most likely add at least $100 ------so about $500 give or take, im not really checking prices...

The most bang for buck would be the 2500 BUT thats for the lower side. For the amd 64 vs Intel 2.8c and up, id say intel is more bang for buck......It can overclock NOW, not later! I rather have a nice oc NOW than in a month or so! and i wouldnt wanna pay another 100 smackers. I would use that money to buy a x800 xt..

Those benchmarks dont show all the info that would allow a buyer to make a good decision. they need a site with the benches of everything, including oc'd and all that...But hey, dont listen to me, im a rambling (confused)

 

[Gamingphreek]

Yes it will run faster... Having 2 physical processors is better than having 2 "imaginary" (for lack of a better word) processors.
Good Luck
-Kevin

 

[saechaka]

thanks for the replies. i think i'm going to stay on path and run a dual mobile xp 2600 system with the gigabyte motherboard when i finally have enough money to get one.

 

[BD231]

I was thinking of going dual as I already have a 2600+ mobile. Would I need to alter the CPU bridges in any way to go dual?

 

[myocardia]

No, as crazy as it sounds, you only have to modify the bridges on the desktop Bartons (well, all XP's), but you don't have to modify anything to use the mobiles in SMP.

 

[Mingon]

I can run 2 x dr-divx encoding on my dual barton mobile rig. using dr divx 5.03 and the divx5.11 pro codec (a bit slow-good quality) I can encode at 40-45 fps, but with 2 instances running i get the same for both cpu's so effectively 80-90. Whilst you wouldnt often do this, I have a divx enabled dvd player and Its great having all of the matrix films on a single dvd-r

Personally I really like the performance of the machine, whilst it wont be always as fast in a single application as a p4, it will be, at most, 80% as fast. The rest of the time flicking between multiple word/excel/photoshop programs is so painless.

The good thing is that my HTPC machine uses a p42.4c@3.0ghz for gaming so I dont have to make a choice.

 

[Zebo]

Umm by the time your done spend $200 on MSI K7D Master and $200 on chips and $200 on registerd low speed 2700 mem your better off with P4. This is a price performance matrix Intel wins.

And it's not like you can just throw a barton/moblie barton in and expect it to work in a MP setup. They require extensive modification which simply is'nt worth it IMO and beefy PSU and two noise maker HSF instead of one.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: myocardia
No, as crazy as it sounds, you only have to modify the bridges on the desktop Bartons (well, all XP's), but you don't have to modify anything to use the mobiles in SMP.

Not true even more modification is reqd link

 

[Mingon]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Umm by the time your done spend $200 on MSI K7D Master and $200 on chips and $200 on registerd low speed 2700 mem your better off with P4. This is a price performance matrix Intel wins.

And it's not like you can just throw a barton/moblie barton in and expect it to work in a MP setup. They require extensive modification which simply is'nt worth it IMO and beefy PSU and two noise maker HSF instead of one.

Extensive? your talking out of where the sun doesnt shine they require the third lv5 bridge to be cut (remove mobile cpuid), then you just mod the pins to get the desired multiplier. I use a conductive pen rather than wire to join the pins, its easier (less fiddly) and is much safer.
The cpu's are then fully recognised as being SMP capable, whereas barton modded are capablle but not recognised by the mobo. I have built 2 rigs, with my current running 2 x 2500+'s at 2.4ghz (2.5 capable).

They are a comparable to a top end p4 unit, I dont know where you get your costs from;

A decent intel cpu will be equivalent in cost to 2 x mobile chips,
memory will be cheaper for the AMD as you only need pc2100 (normal is fine upto 512 I use cheapo 3200)
A 420 watt psu is Ok, I have used a 350watt psu with no issue's
A decent Intel motherboard is slightly cheaper tham the AMD
Then you need 2 x decent cpu cooler, zalman would be good.

So for the same amount you will have a machine that will be as quick as an intel in most application with the benefit of proper SMP not intels fake SMP whihc frankly is nowhere near as good (I have a 2.4c@3.0 setup also).

 

[Shimmishim]

Originally posted by: myocardia
Two instances? How many hard-drives are you planning on putting into that rig? When you encode video, you only use one software to do the encoding, but most video software these days is SMP-enabled, so it will run twice as fast with a true SMP (dual processor) system. With a P4, it won't run twice as fast, whoever told you that must work for Intel (or be the biggest fanboy of all time), but it will be considerably faster than the same speed P4 without hyperthreading. Hyperthreading emulates two processors. The only way to really get the speed of two processors is by really having two processors. Here's a link for you, and remember that this is a 3.2ghz Prescott, and Prescott's are slower than Northwood's in everything else, but they are faster than Northwood's at video encoding. I actually ordered my mobile Barton within an hour of reading this article.

edit: Oops, maybe I should have included the link! Here it is: link to a 2.5ghz mobile Athlon destroying a 3.2ghz Prescott at everything but media encoding.

that was a cool article showing the ability of a mobile 2500+ compared to those chips...

but it's just skewed...

yes, it does destroy the prescott at a lot of things... but let me ask you this... if someone runs an overclocked barton at 2.5 ghz... who's to say they wouldn't overclock a prescott???

an overclocked prescott even at 3.6 to 3.8 ghz would probably be as fast or even faster than that barton...

if someone's going to do an overclocking article like that... then they should at least overclock all the chips!!!

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Mingon

Originally posted by: Zebo
Umm by the time your done spend $200 on MSI K7D Master and $200 on chips and $200 on registerd low speed 2700 mem your better off with P4. This is a price performance matrix Intel wins.

And it's not like you can just throw a barton/moblie barton in and expect it to work in a MP setup. They require extensive modification which simply is'nt worth it IMO and beefy PSU and two noise maker HSF instead of one.

Extensive? your talking out of where the sun doesnt shine they require the third lv5 bridge to be cut (remove mobile cpuid), then you just mod the pins to get the desired multiplier. I use a conductive pen rather than wire to join the pins, its easier (less fiddly) and is much safer.
The cpu's are then fully recognised as being SMP capable, whereas barton modded are capablle but not recognised by the mobo. I have built 2 rigs, with my current running 2 x 2500+'s at 2.4ghz (2.5 capable).

They are a comparable to a top end p4 unit, I dont know where you get your costs from;

A decent intel cpu will be equivalent in cost to 2 x mobile chips,
memory will be cheaper for the AMD as you only need pc2100 (normal is fine upto 512 I use cheapo 3200)
A 420 watt psu is Ok, I have used a 350watt psu with no issue's
A decent Intel motherboard is slightly cheaper tham the AMD
Then you need 2 x decent cpu cooler, zalman would be good.

So for the same amount you will have a machine that will be as quick as an intel in most application with the benefit of proper SMP not intels fake SMP whihc frankly is nowhere near as good (I have a 2.4c@3.0 setup also).

Same amount? not even close..Lets take a look at the price differential.

AMD SMP System

-Buffalo ECC/registered PC2700 2x512 $260.00 - this will allow to OC MSI board to ~150 FSB which seems to be it's MAX.
-2x AMD mobile 2600 $200 if you want 2500mhz
-2x Zalman CNPS7000A $85
-MSI K7D Master $200
----------------------------
$745

P4 system
-ABIT IC7 i875P $122.00
-Intel Pentium 4/ 2.8C GHz 800MHz FSB, $180 if you want to OC to 3.2-3.5 on default Vcore thus using the default HSF
-Komusa 1GB Kit (512MB x 2 modules) Dual Channel DDR PC4200 533MHz -$288 So you can run at 1:1 at 2.5 cas
---------------------------------
$590

Or about 25% more cash for AMD SMP setup.

This gives us two 2500MHZ bartons running on a lousy 150mhz bus and one P4 @3500 Mhz ~250+mhz bus. Choice is yours but I've never seen benches to justify a dual setups price performance ratio. If you show me ~25% more performance accross the board then it makes sence. But since SMP is rarly comes into play unless heavlity mulitasking you will find this proof difficult to provide since by itself the OCed P4 will destroy that dually in 99% of apps.

 

[saechaka]

i was planning on using this motherboard, Gigabyte GA-7DPXDW, . i didn't realize i would have to make modifications. I thought i could just pop mobile xps in there. am i wrong?

"I can run 2 x dr-divx encoding on my dual barton mobile rig. using dr divx 5.03 and the divx5.11 pro codec (a bit slow-good quality) I can encode at 40-45 fps, but with 2 instances running i get the same for both cpu's so effectively 80-90. Whilst you wouldnt often do this, I have a divx enabled dvd player and Its great having all of the matrix films on a single dvd-r

Personally I really like the performance of the machine, whilst it wont be always as fast in a single application as a p4, it will be, at most, 80% as fast. The rest of the time flicking between multiple word/excel/photoshop programs is so painless.

The good thing is that my HTPC machine uses a p42.4c@3.0ghz for gaming so I dont have to make a choice. "

so it seems a dual mobile system will not be advantageous to a p4 ht machine as it still encodes slower. am i wrong?

 

[Soulkeeper]

it would be hands down the athlonXP dualie MP if only the missing key was there
A nice NFORCE2 !!! based mp chipset with dual channel memory controller

 

[mamisano]

With the Gigabyte board, you need to pin-mod the sockets for multiplier and voltage settings.... That's how I set my Dual 2400-Mobiles on the same board

I also just picked up 1GB PC2700 ECC/Registered DDR from NewEgg refurb for $175....can't beat that! The board cost me $125 from the FS/T forums, $160 for processors and $50 for 2x Silent Boost HS/Fans.

 

[Mingon]

Originally posted by: saechaka
i was planning on using this motherboard, Gigabyte GA-7DPXDW, . i didn't realize i would have to make modifications. I thought i could just pop mobile xps in there. am i wrong?

so it seems a dual mobile system will not be advantageous to a p4 ht machine as it still encodes slower. am i wrong?

The performance delta between my dual bartons and my 2.4c@3.1 is not much circa 4-5 fps (10%) but as I said if I encode 2 films at the same time (to different drives) the your effectively getting 80-90fps worth of encoding which cuts down encoding times by 2-3 hours which is a big difference.

This gives us two 2500MHZ bartons running on a lousy 150mhz bus and one P4 @3500 Mhz ~250+mhz bus. Choice is yours but I've never seen benches to justify a dual setups price performance ratio. If you show me ~25% more performance accross the board then it makes sence. But since SMP is rarly comes into play unless heavlity mulitasking you will find this proof difficult to provide since by itself the OCed P4 will destroy that dually in 99% of apps.

The thing with dual machines is that its difficult to appreciate one untill youve tried. If you do anything except play games / browse the internet you would really notice the difference.

Photoshop 7 for instance would be much quicker on the dual setup versus the single P4. (i have previously had a 3.06@3.6ghz and published psb7 bench tests on arstechnicca for both). Autocad is another that springs to mind.