Dual-core Atom-based Netbooks and some musings about Bobcat

[mrcaffeinex]

I was just reading the preview on the new AMD Bobcat CPUs and the most anticipated advantage seems to be the out-of-order processing capabilities. I have used a number of netbooks, with Acer and ASUS models powered by 1.6GHz single-core atoms featuring 1GB memory along with 120GB HDDs being the most common. I have typically been disappointed due to their slow performance.

I understand that netbooks are not intended to be performance machines. The small form factor, decent battery life and ultra-portability are the keys to their adoption in the marketplace. It simply takes too long to do simple tasks with the netbooks I have used to make them worthwhile. Starting Word 2007 takes nearly 45 seconds, Excel is similar. Even downgrading back to Office 2003 only brings the launch times into the 30 second range. Internet performance with IE8 and Firefox were slow in my experience as well.

I have a Zotac Ion setup that I use as a low-power HTPC, booting Windows XP Professional, Windows 7 Home Premium and Sabayon 5.2MCE. It has a dual-core Atom 330 processor running at 1.6GHz and supporting hyper-threading as well as the nVidia 9400 chipset. It gives me no trouble browsing, watching streaming media like HULU, YouTube HD, Netflix, etc. For fun I decided to install Office and compare the performance to a friend's Acer 1.6GHz Atom-based netbook. The launch times for Office applications were almost instantaneous on the HTPC. On the netbook they were almost 30 seconds in 2007 and 2003 was almost 20 seconds. It is a newer Acer netbook so my assumption would be that there have been some improvements in the rest of the included hardware. I know his netbook sports 2GB of memory and a 160GB HDD.

All of this leads me to ask one question: why aren't more manufacturers shipping dual-core Atom-based netbooks? I would also love to see AMD's new Bobcat chips compete in the small-form-factor/low power consumption market, but with newer Atom processors and the potential addition of dual-core Atom CPUs in the netbook market, will it be too little too late for AMD again?

-MrCaffeineX

 

[Zap]

It has a dual-core Atom 330 processor running at 1.6GHz and supporting hyper-threading as well as the nVidia 9400 chipset. It gives me no trouble browsing, watching streaming media like HULU, YouTube HD, Netflix, etc. For fun I decided to install Office and compare the performance to a friend's Acer 1.6GHz Atom-based netbook. The launch times for Office applications were almost instantaneous on the HTPC. On the netbook they were almost 30 seconds in 2007 and 2003 was almost 20 seconds. It is a newer Acer netbook so my assumption would be that there have been some improvements in the rest of the included hardware. I know his netbook sports 2GB of memory and a 160GB HDD.

What HDD does your HTPC have? My guess is that it isn't a low end 5400RPM notebook drive. Also, have you tried the loading time while the netbook was plugged in to AC power and with Windows set to max performance instead of balanced or max battery?

All of this leads me to ask one question: why aren't more manufacturers shipping dual-core Atom-based netbooks? I would also love to see AMD's new Bobcat chips compete in the small-form-factor/low power consumption market, but with newer Atom processors and the potential addition of dual-core Atom CPUs in the netbook market, will it be too little too late for AMD again?

No, AMD will be fine. Heck, their current "Nile" platform is fine compared to dual core Atom. Here's the thing... the dual core Atom netbooks that you can currently buy have terrible battery life compared to typical single core Atom netbooks. Part of it might be that they are mostly ION/ION2 and use desktop Atoms, but that fact remains. Also, their pricing is much higher than typical netbook pricing. At this rate why buy a dual core Atom netbook when you can buy a CULV based mini notebook, or a Nile? For instance I got a Hannspree CULV that has a 12.1" screen, is 3.4 pounds, gets as good battery life as my 6-cell MSI Wind netbook (1st gen, newer ones get better) and with the dual core Pentium SU4100 handily outperforms my netbook. You can find them for $400-430 regular priced. I got mine for around $340 on a special. Even better is a Nile setup like my wife's Acer that weighs 3.08 pounds, making it lighter than my MSI Wind netbook as well as having similar battery life when web browsing. Loading it up eats the battery but performance of course is even better than my Hannspree and it can even play some 3D FPS games like L4D with graphics turned down. Of course pricing is higher, but this feels entirely like the performance of a full sized notebook, but with netbook size/weight/battery.

Now, that's the current dual core netbooks. What about the upcoming "real" mobile dual core Atoms? Those will definitely get much better battery life, however to do that they are clocked lower at 1.5GHz and still have 8.5W TDP versus 5.5W of the typical Atom N450 found in most current netbooks.

IMO performance will just be enough to make netbooks more tolerable, and they still won't be up to satisfying anyone who really wants a netbook sized notebook.

 

[poofyhairguy]

The problem with the market is that there is no complete subnotebook offering.

Atom based notebooks have too weak of a CPU.

CULV based notebooks have terrible GPUs.

Nile based notebooks lack the CULV battery life.

That Alienware monstrosity is a tank.


I am actually really looking forward to the Macbook Air 11inch model that is rumored. Might be the real deal.

 

[mrcaffeinex]

The Macbook Air might meet higher performance targets, but at what cost? Don't get me wrong, I love my Macbook Pro. However, even I cannot argue that it wasn't expensive.

Netbooks were basically non-existent when I purchased the Macbook Pro and the Macbook Air was just a rumor back then. When I first purchased the Macbook Pro, I didn't worry about carrying it. It seems that the older I get the lazier I get and now just the thought of lugging it with me makes me want to leave it home.

I get 3 to 4 hours of usage out of the Macbook for browsing (which incidentally has a 5400RPM HDD), Office and the like. I would be willing to sacrifice an hour or so even, if it meant carrying a less than 5 pound computer with me. I very rarely have to go more than 3 hours without being able to plug my computer into an outlet.

I'll keep my eyes open for reviews of the new mobile dual-core Atom-based Netbooks. If I remember correctly, the article said that the new Bobcat-based systems should start becoming available in early 2011. I will probably just deal with the Macbook until there are some head-to-head comparisons of the new systems. It will give me something to look forward to this winter.

 

[Zap]

Nile based notebooks lack the CULV battery life.

Not necessarily. My wife's Acer (Turion II K625) gets as good battery life under low utilization (web browsing) as my Hannspree (Pentium SU4100), and that's with a slightly smaller mAh battery. On the flip side it gets worse battery life under high utilization, but gives much better performance. it also weighs 0.32 pounds less than my Hannspree.

What if it had a higher mAh battery?

Also, note that on both of them Windows is usually very wrong in estimating how much battery life is remaining. I think mine never goes over around 4:10 remaining, but I've used it several times for over 5 hours. The Acer's Windows battery estimate tends to bounce around quite a bit, probably because the CPU switches speed/voltage more dramatically than the SU4100, but often it stays in the 3 hour range. Pretty funny when you use it for an hour and the estimate only drops by a half hour. Color me impressed by the Nile platform.

That's not to say the actual notebook is perfect. Far from it. I hate the keyboard and I hate the touchpad buttons. The LCD is not that great, but that's about par for almost all notebooks/netbooks in that price range. Oh yeah, and add a half pound to it in pure battery, and you can be looking at 8+ hours battery life while still being near 3½ pounds.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Now, that's the current dual core netbooks. What about the upcoming "real" mobile dual core Atoms? Those will definitely get much better battery life, however to do that they are clocked lower at 1.5GHz and still have 8.5W TDP versus 5.5W of the typical Atom N450 found in most current netbooks.

The Nettop Atoms don't even have EIST or even C4 power state, only down to C1. The power management is crippled just like the Celerons.

ION sucks on battery life too. Especially compared to the new Pine Trail platform moved the 945GC GMCH to the CPU and went 45nm.