Dryer wont start! (it starts, but, as soon as the button is released, it stops!!)

[NoMoMoney]

I have a Kenmore dryer also and had the same problem that was already mentioned with the Relay. However, I didn't get it from Sears I got it from the manufacturer and only paid $5 for it (the part number for the relay is on it as well as the manufacturer)... anyway, my point is that you can check the relays with a meter and check the resistance between the two contacts to see if they are in range. You can usually get the part from jameco.com .

Sounds like that is the issue. Also, do you have thermo resistor (or something) that goes into the exhaust or near the elements to make sure it doesn't overheat? I wouldn't think that would be the issue, since usually if that goes it still spins, but doesn't produce heat. The other issue I had with my Kenmore dryer was the "Even-heat" logic board, but I didn't see anything like that on your dryer.

If you don't have a meter, you can try swapping the two relays (one is for heat, one to spin) and see if you can get the dryer to spin without heat. If you can, then it is a bad relay. If it still doesn't work, then you are no better off.

 

[sandorski]

Put clothes in heated oven, stir often

 

[woowoo]

Originally posted by: WarDemon666


"If the motor starts and runs when you press the start button and shuts off right after you let go of it, the centrifugal switch probably needs to be replaced."

Maybe on the drum?

 

[WarDemon666]

Originally posted by: woowoo

Originally posted by: WarDemon666


"If the motor starts and runs when you press the start button and shuts off right after you let go of it, the centrifugal switch probably needs to be replaced."

Maybe on the drum?

i checked the drum, its bare, couldnt find any sensors close by either!

GOD is this ever going bad!

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: WarDemon666

Originally posted by: woowoo

Originally posted by: WarDemon666


"If the motor starts and runs when you press the start button and shuts off right after you let go of it, the centrifugal switch probably needs to be replaced."

Maybe on the drum?

i checked the drum, its bare, couldnt find any sensors close by either!

GOD is this ever going bad!

It'll probably cost $100ish, but call a repairman. He'll likely know exactly what it is.

 

[Paperdoc]

You were right to conclude the door switch is not the problem.
On any motor like this there is an extra "booster" winding in it for start-up only. The circuit is set up so that when you push the manual "start" switch it supplies power to BOTH the regular running windings AND the Start Winding. This gives the motor extra torque to start up, but it runs VERY heavy current through the motor. Keeping it running this way would overheat the motor an possibly burn it out! That is why you read do NOT tape down the push-button.
What should happen normally is this: there is another switch or circuit that automatically senses the motor action. Many are based on a centrifugal switch built into the motor (not outside - that's why you did not spot it) that senses motor speed and opens the circuit for the Start Winding as the motor reaches normal running speed. It keeps running on the regular windings only. When the motor stops, the centrifugal switch resets ready for next time. It would appear that somehow the connection to the REGULAR windings is what's failing. Now, that MIGHT be a bad connection inside the motor or even a part of the centrifugal switch assembly, but it could be that one of the many leads to the motor from outside is the source of the problem is the regular winding is fed separately. Again, a circuit diagram sure would help.
One other system I have seen (on my washing machine) had a different external relay instead of the internal centrifugal switch. Its coil was in series with the motor's main windings. When the heavy start-up current (in both Start and Regular) windings was flowing, this relay pulled up and supplied power to the Start Winding. But as the motor hit speed and the current dropped off, the relay opened and disconnected the Start Winding. On several occasions the motor would not start and the problem was that the relay contacts were dirty. I just opened it up, cleaned and re-assembled, and it worked again. Not quite the same as your problem, but that is another type of curcuit design. However, I cannot see any such relay in your photos.
Every sensor I see in the photos looks like a temperature probe. There are three on the heater mount itself near the back, and a 4-wire job near the motor that MAY be sensing the temperature of the exhaust air in the fan casing. This last one often is used to regulate temperature for "normal" and "delicate" dryer settings. But I would check the wiring and voltages around the sensors, especially the three on the heater. At least one of these proably is a high-limit protection device in case the heating element gets too hot. It would be set to shut down everything if it opens. So check whether you have continuity through all of the sensors.

 

[WarDemon666]

Originally posted by: Paperdoc
You were right to conclude the door switch is not the problem.
On any motor like this there is an extra "booster" winding in it for start-up only. The circuit is set up so that when you push the manual "start" switch it supplies power to BOTH the regular running windings AND the Start Winding. This gives the motor extra torque to start up, but it runs VERY heavy current through the motor. Keeping it running this way would overheat the motor an possibly burn it out! That is why you read do NOT tape down the push-button.
What should happen normally is this: there is another switch or circuit that automatically senses the motor action. Many are based on a centrifugal switch built into the motor (not outside - that's why you did not spot it) that senses motor speed and opens the circuit for the Start Winding as the motor reaches normal running speed. It keeps running on the regular windings only. When the motor stops, the centrifugal switch resets ready for next time. It would appear that somehow the connection to the REGULAR windings is what's failing. Now, that MIGHT be a bad connection inside the motor or even a part of the centrifugal switch assembly, but it could be that one of the many leads to the motor from outside is the source of the problem is the regular winding is fed separately. Again, a circuit diagram sure would help.
One other system I have seen (on my washing machine) had a different external relay instead of the internal centrifugal switch. Its coil was in series with the motor's main windings. When the heavy start-up current (in both Start and Regular) windings was flowing, this relay pulled up and supplied power to the Start Winding. But as the motor hit speed and the current dropped off, the relay opened and disconnected the Start Winding. On several occasions the motor would not start and the problem was that the relay contacts were dirty. I just opened it up, cleaned and re-assembled, and it worked again. Not quite the same as your problem, but that is another type of curcuit design. However, I cannot see any such relay in your photos.
Every sensor I see in the photos looks like a temperature probe. There are three on the heater mount itself near the back, and a 4-wire job near the motor that MAY be sensing the temperature of the exhaust air in the fan casing. This last one often is used to regulate temperature for "normal" and "delicate" dryer settings. But I would check the wiring and voltages around the sensors, especially the three on the heater. At least one of these proably is a high-limit protection device in case the heating element gets too hot. It would be set to shut down everything if it opens. So check whether you have continuity through all of the sensors.

I checked all the sensors that have two pins for continuity, they all seem fine, but, it changes if it gets hot right? i dont want to start the dryer without the drum, just in case something goes wrong,,,,


any tips on how to check the 4 pin sensors? also, the wires seem to be connected everything, i played with them all when i checked for continuity, they seem fine, are there other ways to test these sensors?

ideas on how to proceed?

Thanks a lot for your help, I really appreciate it.

edit: ill try to remove some dust and take some better pictures of the motor, would this help in determining the problem?

but i cant test the 4 prong sensors because i dont what makes it functional or not...

 

[Modular]

Hair dryer FTW?

Honestly, you need to check and make sure that you have 110v at the motor (on both windings) when the start button is pushed. Since you won't post a model number it's going to be hard to help you.

Good luck.

 

[WarDemon666]

Originally posted by: Modular
Hair dryer FTW?

Honestly, you need to check and make sure that you have 110v at the motor (on both windings) when the start button is pushed. Since you won't post a model number it's going to be hard to help you.

Good luck.

Where could I find the model number? i checked everywhere and couldnt find much,,, just googling moffat brought me nothing useful

 

[WarDemon666]

what really frustrates me is that i took it apart just to clean the venting system, and now this happened!!!

it must be something around the motor, because I moved the motor a little to clean the ventilation and put it back after, but everything seems just like before and i checked the connections!!! aghh!!

 

[Juice Box]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Put clothes in heated oven, stir often

Stir? wtf

 

[WarDemon666]

update:!

I found on the left side of the motor a wire that leads to a small black box (some type of fuse or something, one wire in one wire out) that says :MICROSWITCH, its too far and too small to see the writing unless I take it apart.. i dont have time to take it apart but I will later on tonight.

This black box goes to the start switch. If you look closely on the pictures of the switch, there are two wires on one side of the switch!!!

IM GUESSING: one for the START of the motor, probably,,, and another for continuation without the switch depressed?

Could this be the problem?

 

[WarDemon666]

ill post pics tonight

 

[Paperdoc]

OK, if the sensors all have good continuity when cold, that's good. There is still the POSSIBILITY one could open at too low a temperature, but not very likely - otherwise you would not have it start but then fail IMMEDIATELY when you take your finger off the button.

Just to be sure you could try looking for a bad connection. Easiest way I know is you disconnect and re-connect every slide-on connector you can find. Do each several times - that tends to clean off any light dirt or corrosion. While you're doing this, inspect each wire end carefully where the connector is crimped onto the wire. If the wire is corroded or discoloured you could have a bad connection there, or the wire could actually be broken off back inside the outer insulating wrap.

I thought of another simple thing to check - the fuses or breaker. Normally a dryer is fed with four wires coming off two fuses or a double breaker back in the panel. As they enter the dryer, there is normally a Green wire (Ground to chassis), a White wire (neutral power return) and two "Hot" lines, Black and Red. If you are careful you can ensure nothing is touching, then turn on or plug in the power cord. Do NOT try to actually turn on the machine with its controls - make sure they are set to OFF before starting. Then carefully test voltages present where the first connection points are. You should find:
115 v AC between White and Black
115 v AC between White and Red
230 v AC between Red and Black
Assuming you have what's called a "Grounded Neutral" system, the Green should look to a voltmeter just like the White: 115 v AC Green to Black or Red, 0 v AC Green to White.

In most systems the 230v AC supply is used for the electric heater coil, but the motor is only using 115 v AC between White and either Black or Red. If ONE of the two "Hot" leads is dead because of a failed fuse or breaker, two things can happen: the dryer MAY turn on and run, but with very poor heating or none; or, the whole thing may just do nothing. I don't know if your exact problem could come from this source, but it's simple to check. Just be VERY sure you know how to work around live wiring if you try this.

RE: cleaning and photos of the motor (be SURE to disconnect power completely before starting this!
This interesting motor seems to have a very open frame so you can see a lot of its insides already. With the dust removed look it over carefully, especially the wires inside the open case. Any of them look burned or broken off?

Just saw your note about eh Microswitch item. Where is it? Is it (or was it) stcuk on or in the motor? I'm wondering if it uses the motor's magnetic field to control the Start Winding.

I'm still struck by the fact the problem you have now was not there before you started working on it. That may mean that somehow in the repair operations you loosened a connection that was "on the edge" beforehand. OR, any chance that, when you moved the motor for cleaning, you disconnected some of its wires and then re-connected the wrong way? Or left a connection loose that does not look loose to a quick glance?

 

[bctbct]

Open the dryer door, usually the model number is inside the opening

 

[Pepsi90919]

i think it's this.

 

[WarDemon666]

Originally posted by: Paperdoc
OK, if the sensors all have good continuity when cold, that's good. There is still the POSSIBILITY one could open at too low a temperature, but not very likely - otherwise you would not have it start but then fail IMMEDIATELY when you take your finger off the button.

Just to be sure you could try looking for a bad connection. Easiest way I know is you disconnect and re-connect every slide-on connector you can find. Do each several times - that tends to clean off any light dirt or corrosion. While you're doing this, inspect each wire end carefully where the connector is crimped onto the wire. If the wire is corroded or discoloured you could have a bad connection there, or the wire could actually be broken off back inside the outer insulating wrap.

I thought of another simple thing to check - the fuses or breaker. Normally a dryer is fed with four wires coming off two fuses or a double breaker back in the panel. As they enter the dryer, there is normally a Green wire (Ground to chassis), a White wire (neutral power return) and two "Hot" lines, Black and Red. If you are careful you can ensure nothing is touching, then turn on or plug in the power cord. Do NOT try to actually turn on the machine with its controls - make sure they are set to OFF before starting. Then carefully test voltages present where the first connection points are. You should find:
115 v AC between White and Black
115 v AC between White and Red
230 v AC between Red and Black
Assuming you have what's called a "Grounded Neutral" system, the Green should look to a voltmeter just like the White: 115 v AC Green to Black or Red, 0 v AC Green to White.

In most systems the 230v AC supply is used for the electric heater coil, but the motor is only using 115 v AC between White and either Black or Red. If ONE of the two "Hot" leads is dead because of a failed fuse or breaker, two things can happen: the dryer MAY turn on and run, but with very poor heating or none; or, the whole thing may just do nothing. I don't know if your exact problem could come from this source, but it's simple to check. Just be VERY sure you know how to work around live wiring if you try this.

RE: cleaning and photos of the motor (be SURE to disconnect power completely before starting this!
This interesting motor seems to have a very open frame so you can see a lot of its insides already. With the dust removed look it over carefully, especially the wires inside the open case. Any of them look burned or broken off?

Just saw your note about eh Microswitch item. Where is it? Is it (or was it) stcuk on or in the motor? I'm wondering if it uses the motor's magnetic field to control the Start Winding.

I'm still struck by the fact the problem you have now was not there before you started working on it. That may mean that somehow in the repair operations you loosened a connection that was "on the edge" beforehand. OR, any chance that, when you moved the motor for cleaning, you disconnected some of its wires and then re-connected the wrong way? Or left a connection loose that does not look loose to a quick glance?

!!! i just tried playing the all the wires to make sure they are connected well (every single one I could find) and it still does the same thing.

Im going to go test voltages right now...

i checked for a model number on the door and just found a caution message and thats it

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Juice Box

Originally posted by: sandorski
Put clothes in heated oven, stir often

Stir? wtf

To simulate the tumble!

 

[WarDemon666]

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2526/dryer018jv7.jpg

<emo> heres a picture of the microswitch.

its still not working.

I hate life. </emo>

the motor is to the right of the picture

the black thing doesnt seem like a centrifugal switch, im not even sure that could be the problem.

 

[bctbct]

OP you are down to three choices.

1) buy a new dryer 300+
2) call repair guy 100+ parts
3) take the relay with 4 wires attached to it to the parts store and see if its cost $20 which is far cheaper than your other options.

I only suggest 3) since two people have told you that they have had the same problem and that it was a relay.

Now I really dont know that much about appliances but if the symptoms are exactly the same on two different different models and makes....it seem coincidental that an entirely different faulty part is going to give the same symptom.

I hate to seem rude but without a model number nobody can do anything for you.

Take the part to the part store, begin a conversation with the parts guy something like

"My friggin dryer wont run once I take my finger off the start button do you think this could be the problem?"

He will most likely say

a) sure I sell ten of them a month for the same problem
b) nah, probably not, could be .........

Beware though

HE IS GOING TO ASK THE FRIGGIN MODEL NUMBER

end rant

good luck

 

[WarDemon666]

lol thanks bctbct

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: WarDemon666
lol thanks bctbct

hey, for you, no problem

 

[WarDemon666]

i just found the centrifugal switch, i removed the dust and it seems to be moving freely, but i dont know how its supposed to work so I dont know how to test it without starting it...

would it be possible to try it without having the drum inside the dryer? are there any risks of doing this??

Thanks!

 

[WarDemon666]

I took the motor apart and was able to loosen the microswitch, i found out that the part number is 1pl67-br, and its just a regular push switch,,,, i dont know what its supposed to do maybe reset something??,,, ideas anyone??

 

[AMDMaddness]

updates?