You thread crapped. I only commented when someone said a WRX was better than a Porsche. Maybe if you could read and follow linear conversation, you'd know that. Just because you can't afford a BMW and you've never driven one, doesn't make them crap. But if you have to overcompensate by having the fastest car on the road, then that's your shortcoming.
You thread crapped. I only commented when someone said a WRX was better than a Porsche. Maybe if you could read and follow linear conversation, you'd know that. Just because you can't afford a BMW and you've never driven one, doesn't make them crap. But if you have to overcompensate by having the fastest car on the road, then that's your shortcoming.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
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Who the hell said I couldn't afford one? I definitely can. And I have driven one. It's looks like you're the king of ASSumptions too, eh?
I read the whole thread. Everyone was congratulating Jules on his purchase, made a true comment about the STi and the Porsche, and you had to leap in and attack with a bunch of threadcrapping. Is that linear enough for you?
As for the rest of your BS, some people like to drive but don't like the financial foolishness that cars represent. BMW's are very nice cars, but I'm not into paying 2 to 3 times more just to show off the precision of the leather trim's stitching to my friends. Nor am I interested in $2k-$3k annual maintenance costs on a brand new car, especially after paying too much in the 1st place. If I felt I needed to burn my money, I'd throw it in the fireplace.
How about fsck you and your pompous life lesson, eh?
In my line of work, I know what everyone makes and how everyone spends it. Everytime I help a friend buy or refinance his house, I tell them, "You may not want me to know this much about you."
You and dirtyboy here are not among the "most powerful men in the world". If you're not pimple-farmers or trust fund babies, then you're the stuck-up wannabie type with a crushing debt of large mortgages, big car payments, and big credit card debt. But you look soooo good.
I certainly hope all that "image, prestige, luxury, refinement" is worth it.
Like I said, enjoy your payments. All this makes me think I might take an extra week of vacation this year... try not to work too hard while I'm gone.
Nebor
Lifer
- Jun 24, 2003
- 29,582
- 12
- 76
I have no mortgage (house was a gift), car payments aren't bad at all (about 20% of income), carry no credit card debt... I just realize some cars are finer than others. Just like some wines are finer than others, some leather is finer than others, some computer components are finer than others, etc. Let's face it, the STI is an ECS motherboard that can run a P4 @ 4ghz. That's very impressive, for an ECS. But we pretty much expect our BMW\Porsche A-bit\Asus motherboard to do it.
And I didn't say that any of the people could consider a car without cost being a factor. But there are quite a few people here who have say, $80k set aside that they can spend on a car. They can get a range of cars for that, and they'll probably want the best they can get. I will agree that the STI\Evo is a bargain. No one is disputing that. But it's simply not in league with the other cars as a total package. But that's ok! The STI\Evo cost half as much! And if you're not concerned with what other people think, or the little details that go into BMW\Porsches, then go for that other car.
And I didn't say that any of the people could consider a car without cost being a factor. But there are quite a few people here who have say, $80k set aside that they can spend on a car. They can get a range of cars for that, and they'll probably want the best they can get. I will agree that the STI\Evo is a bargain. No one is disputing that. But it's simply not in league with the other cars as a total package. But that's ok! The STI\Evo cost half as much! And if you're not concerned with what other people think, or the little details that go into BMW\Porsches, then go for that other car.
Originally posted by: hysperion
I'd take my 911 over any car on the road (other than a gt2 or gt3 or carrera gt....ok basically anything with porsche and gt in it other then the 928
-well I guess I'd take a ferrari but in terms of a daily driver I'd still take the 911....
hysperion, I don't think anyone is saying that porsches suck. I've driven plenty, and I do agree with you, they are great driving vehicles. I'm partial to the air cooled ones over the water, but that's another story.
What people are saying is that porsche is no longer the performance leader that it once was. Not too long ago, it was difficult to match the overall performance of a porsche. Now, cars are starting to emerge at 1/2 of the price that can match the performance, strip AND track.
This is the way the thread goes:
SCUBBY SUPORTER: The WRX STi outperforms the porsche. Acceleration, cornering, around the track, not just straightline.
PORSCHE SUPPORTER: NO, porsches do not suck. Your econobox sucks. I wouldn't want one. Straight line performance means little, I don't care about straight line performance.
SCUBBY SUPPORTER: The porsche doesn't perform as well as the WRX. We're not just talking straight line.
PORSCHE SUPPORTER: Straight line performance means nothing to me. It's about status, refinement, image, and other qualities. Porsches do not suck. You suck. Your cars suck and are no good at impressing girls.
SCUBBY SUPPORTER: The WRX provides a lot of performance for the money. If more and more cars in this price range start to outperform Porsches, Porsche may need to increasing their performance envelope.
PORSCHE SUPPORTER: What do you mean porsches suck? You cannot fight the mighty bling bling of the Porsche or BMW. Look at all of the mighty people who drive them. This makes them better than EVAR!
Etc, etc, etc. Then, it goes downhill from there.
DivideBYZero
Lifer
- May 18, 2001
- 24,117
- 2
- 0
FYI: BMW != Porsche. Please dismount the high horse.
BMW = overpriced, but competent everyday cars
Scoobs = Cheap, competent everyday cars.
Porsche = All round star car, car for life.
Here endeth the lesson.
(GF8 Turbo owner)
love the STi for what it is - there were only three cars i really considered when i was shopping for my car and the STi was one of them - an excellent car at a great price point. i dont even understadn why the porsche is in this discussion - even though the performance of the carrera and STi are similar, they are completely different cars. the mindset of the buyers are completely different. for the amount of money spent on a carrera, he/she could have bought an e55 amg, a z06, or a viper, all of which would kill the STi, at least in straight line performance.....
I bought a porsche because where I live, (wisconsin) they are very rare....in reguards the to the air cooled porsche's I agree I'm partial to those as well other then the GT3 which is probably the best car porsche has ever made in terms of driving experience. You can match a sti with a camaro z28 and blow probably be at porsche performance why? Cheap interiors, cheap components, big loud engines that sound like every other car on the road....when you drive a 911 people hear you coming and I find it laugable that if money wasn't an issue more then 10% of you would take the sti over the 911....Like I said before, the sti is a great car in it's pricerange and I'll learn more about it today cus I'm going to test drive one for use as a daily driver....
I'm going to disagree and say that 20% of your income on a car payment is indeed bad. I can appreciate that someone gave you a house, but if they hadn't you'd be overextending yourself to make a car payment like that. Don't confuse good fortune with good sense.
EDIT: I missed this part when I posted:
This is what's known as badge-whoring.
Nebor
Lifer
- Jun 24, 2003
- 29,582
- 12
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Yes, but given the situation I'm in (single male, near 6 figures) it's perfectly fine. I save a pretty good amount of money, and I could pay off either or both my cars if I was so inclined. APRs are low though, so I'm better off making payments and keeping my money elsewhere.
James3shin
Diamond Member
- Apr 5, 2004
- 4,426
- 0
- 76
i dont understand how 20% is bad. if your making 100k, your telling me that buying a 20k car is bad?
- Jul 3, 2003
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It's in this discussion because I foolishly pointed out that the STi would beat a 911 in handling, braking, acceleration and pretty much all other performance tests. The flamefest started shortly thereafter. :roll:
I could have bought a BMW 325i but I've owned two 3 series BMWs and quite frankly when you get past 50k miles you start with expensive repair bills. I put 25k miles on a vehicle in one year once so I think about these things before I buy and I plan on owning this car for 4 years, maybe longer. That and the fact that you can't touch the performance of the STi unless you go up to the M3 which is waay out of my price range.
BTW-I own my home. It wasn't a gift nor was any of the money I used to put down on it when I bought it. The only re-financing I've done is to lower my interest rate (which is 5.371% for a 30 year fixed-I plan to be in the house for a while). I owe $220k on the house and it is worth easily $550k right now. Not trying to brag, just pointing out that I have different priorities. I certainly wouldn't take out the equity I have in my house to buy a car. That's insane in my opinion...but I know people who've done it. Hey, they drive nice cars though.
You are. Didn't you say I owned a BMW? Can you prove I do and that I said that? Nope.
I didn't attack anybody. You jumped in and attacked me.
Obviously you're the one with a problem. I never attacked Jules or said that WRX was total crap, yet at every opportunity you bash other people and other cars.
Awesome! I'm buying an STi before July 10. I'm gonna get either Black w/ gunmetal rims or White with gold rims. I can't waiittttt
- Jul 3, 2003
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Do you think these cars will be easy to get in a few months or towards the end of the year? I heard that Subaru only makes a limited number of STi's each year and last year they ran out of them around here. I know of one dealer near me that had a truckload of '04 STi's brought in from accross the country because demand was so high. I think they only made 4,400 of them in '04.
Just curious, this is one of the reasons I bought now rather than wait-which my wife wanted to do.
Everytime I've walked in to a Subaru dealer there have been 3-4 people looking at the STi and only 2 or 3 available. They seem to sell quickly around here anyway and I don't see very many of them on the road. In fact, since Sunday I've only seen one STi on the road.
Wow.. i just went along with a friend to test drive one of these yesterday. Man can it go. It had 7 miles on it.. now it has 25. It seems to be a great car to race around in, but its rides too loud and bumpy for an everyday car (IMHO). However, if your looking for a fun car to take to drag strips or just hot rod around in its great! I think we did 1-100MPH in just over a quartermile. Fastest car i have ever been in.
He didn't get it because it would be an everyday car and maybe even a distance traveler for him. That and the $33k price tag and crappy trade in deal didn't sit well with him... but it was a tough car to walk away from once ya drive it.
Enjoy the car, and if ya get a chance to race it, post some real numbers.
It seems to be a great car to race around in, but its rides too loud and bumpy for an everyday car (IMHO). However, if your looking for a fun car to take to drag strips or just hot rod around in its great! I think we did 1-100MPH in just over a quartermile. Fastest car i have ever been in.He didn't get it because it would be an everyday car and maybe even a distance traveler for him. That and the $33k price tag and crappy trade in deal didn't sit well with him... but it was a tough car to walk away from once ya drive it.
Enjoy the car, and if ya get a chance to race it, post some real numbers.
Your point is that they pay a premium for an overpriced label?
Most of these people in this "elite" socioeconomic class don't know their ass from a hole in the ground about cars. All they know is that it's a porsche and how much they paid for it.
It boils down to "I paid more for my car, therefore it's better." "It's a porsche, therefore it's better".
Well that's great, you roll on down to the local country club and pick up some golden girls.
Basically. To get any real performance from a BMW you have to spend around 60K. Many bmw's fall in the 30K range and really don't have much to offer. People buy them "because it's a bmw". Well if driving a common overpriced midlevel sedan is your think, go for it.
BMW is like the red lobster of the sea food restaurant world.
Don't get me wrong, they both offer some very nice cars.[/quote]
I hate nesting like this.
Yes Sampson, I believe that was his point. Whether you consider it an overpriced label or not, they do indeed pay a premium for it. My point was that those who consider or want the Porsche in the first place aren't going to change the mind based upon the performance of a 30k Subaru.
And you just gave a good example of why Porsche sales won't decline because of cars like the Subaru. They think the Porsche is better (in some ways it is) but they get it because of the name and prestige. Are you jealous? It sure sounds like it.
And no, it isnt about paying too much and having your car spanked by one that costs half as much. You know there is more to a car than performance. And they don't buy them to get laid, but face it, the women would like the Porsche or BMW better. (Not saying that matters..)
Fritzo
Lifer
- Jan 3, 2001
- 41,920
- 2,161
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High performance cars are in demand today. It's the new fad replacing the SUV/Mini Van thing. Car makers are cashing in on this by making affordable performance cars that were previously only accessable to the rich. So yes, cars such as the WRX, the new Neon, 350z, RX-8, etc are all offering "budget" performance cars. Are these cars as fast as $80000-$120000? Yes. Are their braking times and handling similar? Yes. Are they built as well, have the same quality parts? NO. People that say there's no different between a car like a Lotus Elise, a Porche 911, a Mercedes CLK (AMG), or even the new Jaguar XK series and something like a WRX have never been in a higher end car to compare. Fortunately due to my job I get to ride (and sometimes drive) a lot of these types of cars (executives drive me to their homes for in-home network setups and fixes during the week). Gear shifts that are silky smooth, PREMIUM leather (you could fall asleep in the seats in a 911), fine wood trim...you can't replicate that type of driving experience.
A big WOOT for all the lower priced, wicked fast cars out there today, but there's a reason the higher end cars are still selling.
BTW- I own a 2002 WRX and am trading it in for a RX-8 on the next model year. I used to like it but it devoloped a lot of road noise over the years, and the body style is getting stale.
A big WOOT for all the lower priced, wicked fast cars out there today, but there's a reason the higher end cars are still selling.
BTW- I own a 2002 WRX and am trading it in for a RX-8 on the next model year. I used to like it but it devoloped a lot of road noise over the years, and the body style is getting stale.
- Jul 3, 2003
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Yeah, because they say "Look at me!!! I have loads of money!!! I've made it to the big time!!! I'm important!!!"
Anyone who says that this is not the primary reason most people buy these cars is either a liar or stupid.
Where do you live Jules?
I'm in So. Cal and I've contacted a lot of dealerships and they tell me that they get a pretty good # of STi's every month. I seriously doubt that there will be any left at about Feb/Mar of next year and the ones that ARE left will be very hard to find. I hardly EVER see an STi on the road.. i think since January I've only seen about 3-4.
Make sure you check out the impreza.net forums.. I've been PMing with a guy that works at costa mesa subaru and he's gonna try and get me a good deal on one. How much did you pay for yours?
I'm in So. Cal and I've contacted a lot of dealerships and they tell me that they get a pretty good # of STi's every month. I seriously doubt that there will be any left at about Feb/Mar of next year and the ones that ARE left will be very hard to find. I hardly EVER see an STi on the road.. i think since January I've only seen about 3-4.
Make sure you check out the impreza.net forums.. I've been PMing with a guy that works at costa mesa subaru and he's gonna try and get me a good deal on one. How much did you pay for yours?
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