DRM 'Worst Thing' In Video Game Industry

[jaqie]

Yes, I did. I own and play many, many games that are cd key based, and almost every single one works used. As I said many of my games now come from the same source: used donated games from the goodwill computer store. I had no idea starcraft 2 was one of these new breed of games like bf3 and diablo 3, until now.

You are also contradicting yourself "no you are not being treated like a thief" and in your next breath "they want to check to make sure you didn't steal it"....

 

[Texashiker]

Steam still restricts a persons rights with the product. You can't lend the game to someone else, resell it, give it away etc etc. it ties a game inexplicably to a particular individual and account forever more.

If games never went on sale, and they cost $59 - $69 regardless of how old they were, then yes, not being able to sale games would be an issue.

With all of the deep discounts on steam, I do not see being able to sale games as being an issue.

 

[Lonyo]

First of all, your admission to piracy makes me sick. On other forums, this would result in your ban. Secondly, what kind of freaking alternate reality do you live in where game refunds are possible? There is no retailer that has offered refunds on open software in the states since the late 90s. Even then, the only retailer that offered it in my state was EB and NOBODY else. Keep in mind, this was like 2 decades ago, prior to internet piracy and torrents becoming so large. Piracy existed then, but to a much smaller scale. And still nobody offered refunds on used software Maybe you're a relic of the past or something, if you expect refunds on games you dont like maybe you're just involved in the wrong hobby. There is no retailer that offers refunds on used software, your assertion is just hilarious.

On top of this, there is the obvious fact that you can find tons of reviews on launch day. So you have plenty of time to digest youtube videos and reviews to make a purchasing decision. Of course, you're little better than the scum who do nothing but pirate, so despite the fact that there are 20 gabillion reviews out for every game on launch day, you've picked which side you're on. You just like pirating software and grasping at straws for reasons to defend it. Such as no game refunds, the silliest reason i've EVER read. *I guess it's a good time to update my ignore list

I didn't say I pirate because there are no game refunds.
I said you can't get a refund OR EVEN GIVE IT AWAY.

I have given away various games in the past that didn't have online DRM.
I have also given away gifts of online games, such as extra keys, and received these as well.
However I can't give away a key or receive one for a game where, for example, I am physiologically unable to play.
I can't even GIVE AWAY something I CAN'T USE.

And you can't tell from Youtube or reviews that a game will make you feel ill.

Oh, and I gave away my boxed copy of Mirror's Edge that I couldn't play because it made me ill.

I also gave away my copy of Left 4 Dead that I bought many years ago and registered on its own Steam account, back when I did buy things from Steam. Registering it on its own account was a giant hassle for actually trying to play games I had on Steam though, since you have to log in and out all the time to play different games, since Steam won't let you log in to multiple accounts at the same time.
Or the same account multiple times, for instance if you have multiple computers. Including doing things like updating a game on one computer while playing a different game on another computer.
How's that for managing your rights? (Also had that problem when trying to update a game at home, and play a different game on my laptop at "work" when I wasn't having to do much).

 

[ImpulsE69]

Actually the whole "you bought a license" is old and tired as well. It's just another thing that is spun to be anti-consumer so that they can get away with the things they do. It was put there to protect the content owners, but as with everything is being abused by greedy corporations. Piracy or not, what they are doing is wrong, it just happens to be legal because no one actually fights for the consumer.

 

[Aikouka]

Yes, I did. I own and play many, many games that are cd key based, and almost every single one works used. As I said many of my games now come from the same source: used donated games from the goodwill computer store. I had no idea starcraft 2 was one of these new breed of games like bf3 and diablo 3, until now.

You are also contradicting yourself "no you are not being treated like a thief" and in your next breath "they want to check to make sure you didn't steal it"....

You should just return the game to Goodwill, because they shouldn't have even sold it to you to begin with. Blizzard doesn't owe you a key, because you purchased the game second-hand, and in my opinion, that's not their problem. If they give you a key, then Blizzard has only received the profits from one copy, but there are now two in the wild from that copy.

 

[jaqie]

No returns on software. No exceptions.

IMO whoever donated it gave up the right to use their key forever.

 

[Aikouka]

No returns on software. No exceptions.

IMO whoever donated it gave up the right to use their key forever.

Is that their policy? Frankly, I'd raise hell, because they sold you something that didn't work, and there's no way to test it until you're actually trying to use it. Also, it's not like Goodwill can even test it without actually trying to use the key. Ultimately, they should avoid selling software that can't even be tested, because all they sold you was a game disc that lets you install the game faster... if you already own it.

EDIT:

Although, if it was only $2 like you mentioned, I probably would just throw it away.

 

[BrightCandle]

Even if you paid $2 for it you still paid $2. Where there is consideration there is a contract, and if that contract is not fullfilled you have legal recompense. This is the issue I have today, the rights of the purchasers are being rewritten by the corporations. If they carry on down this route I guarantee they will end up having the licences and behavior strongly regulated, they have got mighty greedy and evil in the dealings with their customers.

It isn't a fair system, its not acceptable for them to take money and not deliver their end of the contract, nor is it acceptable that they can disable a product in the feature when they choose to turn off the DRM servers. All of this is wrong, its clearly wrong and none of it is in our interests. What astonishes me to this day is how many people argue that companies ripping you off with broken products is OK. Its not OK, ever.

 

[blackened23]

Yet you're surprised when many users in this very thread advocate piracy, why these games have activation systems. It's pretty hilarious. And we wonder why PC is never the primary development system for multi platform games, while consoles are? Shocking.

Oh wait. You pirate because of DRM. Because of no refunds. Because of big bad evil corporations. Because of <insert lame excuse here>. Because I spent 4000$ on a gaming PC but spending 10$ on a PC game during a steam sale is just too much, so I need to pirate it. I'm entitled to free entertainment! It's mine.

 

[alcoholbob]

If I take one recent example of where DRM is a problem. I acquired Bioshock Infinite. Playing it for 30 minutes made me feel sick (like Mirror's Edge did), so I cannot comfortably play it.
What do I do with my Steamworks DRM game Bioshock Infinite? I would have to ask for a refund, and hope someone might give me one. Except lets say I bought it from Amazon.co.uk, because it's significantly cheaper than Steam, and Amazon won't give me a refund because it's a Steamworks game.

So now I'm stuck with a game I can't play, because it makes me ill, with no way to get my money back, and I can't even give it away because it's tied to my Steam account.

You could just play Bioshock Infinite in 10-15 min sittings. It's a pretty short game and I think I finished in it like 3-4 hours. It took me no more than 2 weeks to beat the game just playing about 15 min a day. I too felt kinda queasy playing the game more than 20 mins or so especially with the hook action.

 

[BladeVenom]

And we wonder why PC is never the primary development system for multi platform games, while consoles are? Shocking.

No one is wondering that, because it's not true. You are wrong.

 

[ThinClient]

Not this tired, old, cliche and stupid argument again. This is highly irrelevant, for reasons i've already stated. Argue what is and isn't good DRM. Not this.

Sorry. I have a pet peeve when people babble incoherently that piracy is theft or stealing.

 

[Anteaus]

I'm exhausted with the "gaming as a right" mentality as if DRM is infringing on a civil liberty or something. I'm not indifferent to the concerns, but completely giving up gaming is an actual option here. DRM is not going away and as broadband internet becomes even more ubiquitous and I can only imagine that always on DRM will increase its footprint.

We are at a pivotal junction with how software is distributed and until the DMCA is replaced or updated, DRM will only continue to become increasingly universal.

People's options at this point are to either agree to disagree and start living with it like the rest of us or just stop gaming altogether. The middle ground only makes people look the whiners who can't deal with reality.

My opinion is that DRM sucks, but I'm content with where it's going because the industry has committed to it and in truth makes sense from a business standpoint. The days of completely independent media are limited and in regards to PC, virtually extinct. You can still buy hard copy games, but most of them still require activation so what's the point.

We can all forget the semantics about piracy, licensing, theft, and use games because none of it really matters any more. Publishers and developers want completely control of distribution, and they are going to get it. The reasons don't really matter anymore.

 

[blackened23]

I'm exhausted with the "gaming as a right" mentality as if DRM is infringing on a civil liberty or something. I'm not indifferent to the concerns, but completely giving up gaming is an actual option here. DRM is not going away and as broadband internet becomes even more ubiquitous and I can only imagine that always on DRM will increase its footprint.

Beautifully stated - Unfortunately I was a bit brash in stating my opinion earlier, but you're mirroring my thoughts exactly on this. A lot of people feel justified in piracy, and as long as that occurs DRM will happen. I also completely agree that "entertainment as a civil right" notion is pretty silly. Vote with your wallet if you don't like a particular method of DRM, that's what I do. If there's a major title which is GFWL or SecuROM based, I don't purchase it. I don't pirate it either. I vote with my wallet and tell the dev what I think. If the publisher has a public forum, I also voice my opinion quite loudly there, although i'm not sure how effective that is. I'm pretty sure I made an #@%$# out of myself on the rocksteady forums, upon finding out Batman: AC uses SecuROM. There are rumors that Batman: Origins will be steamworks, though, which is a good thing - perhaps they took overall user feedback into consideration.

In the meantime, the best we can wish for is DRM that isn't aggressive or intrusive. One that *works* offline. Personally I feel steamworks *is* that DRM , although some feel otherwise.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

There is a difference between taking a copy, it didn't deprive the original seller of the cost of manufacture, it only potentially lost them a sale. This gets debated endlessly but pirating is quite different to stealing, not least because its not criminal in most countries it comes under civil law.

O...... K. Keep believing that dude. Stealing is stealing.

Wow. Can't believe that ANYONE on earth believes that pirating software is not stealing.

 

[blackened23]

O...... K. Keep believing that dude. Stealing is stealing.

Wow. Can't believe that ANYONE on earth believes that pirating software is not stealing.

It's a common argument - there have long been arguments over the semantics over stealing a physical item versus downloading a digital item. When I think of this argument, I think of Bill Clinton being depositioned over Monica Lewinski many years ago - and when the Judge asked him whether he made a false statement, "is that true", Clinton's response was "well that depends on what your definition of is, is".

How ridiculous was that answer?

Anyway, I find the entire argument tasteless and irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, regardless of where you stand on the definitions (who cares) - it is not moral, ethical, or legal to download entertainment for which you didn't pay. Furthermore, the reasons people cite as justifications for piracy are downright ridiculous.

Again, I can't stress enough. If you don't like a particular DRM, vote with your wallet. Don't ever buy from that company. Piracy isn't a justified answer.

 

[KaOTiK]

You could just play Bioshock Infinite in 10-15 min sittings. It's a pretty short game and I think I finished in it like 3-4 hours. It took me no more than 2 weeks to beat the game just playing about 15 min a day. I too felt kinda queasy playing the game more than 20 mins or so especially with the hook action.

BSI is a 14-18 hour game. I don't think it is possible even running and gunning and skipping as much as possible that you could finish it in anywhere near 3-4 hours.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

It's a common argument - there have long been arguments over the semantics over stealing a physical item versus downloading a digital item.

Common or not, it is a stupid and naive argument. Saying that piracy is not theft because it merely deprives a developer of a sale amounts to an assertion that a software pirate "wouldn't buy a game with DRM, so if they steal the game it doesn't matter because the developer wouldn't have received their money anyway." Does anyone else see how ludicrous that position is? Shit. I can't buy a Ferrari and I wouldn't buy a pinto, but neither of those facts are justification for stealing either car. Oh wait, I analogized to real products again, so my argument is de facto invalid. Let me rephrase. I wouldn't pay for license to nuclear modeling software . . ., but that doesn't justify my downloading and using it without paying for the privilege.

F*ck, if that rationale were to hold any weight, no one would pay for anything! They would just take it and say that the manufacturer/developer/whatever is not harmed because they would not have bought their product anyway.

Sorry to be ornery about this, but as an intellectual property attorney this line of thinking just baffles me. I've seen many stupid arguments in my lifetime, but very few rise to the level of absurdity as the "piracy is not theft" argument raised by some in this thread.

 

[KaOTiK]

Common or not, it is a stupid and naive argument. Saying that piracy is not theft because it merely deprives a developer of a sale amounts to an assertion that a software pirate "wouldn't buy a game with DRM, so if they steal the game it doesn't matter because the developer wouldn't have received their money anyway." Does anyone else see how ludicrous that position is? Shit. I can't buy a Ferrari and I wouldn't buy a pinto, but neither of those facts are justification for stealing either car. Oh wait, I analogized to real products again, so my argument is de facto invalid. Let me rephrase. I wouldn't pay for license to nuclear modeling software . . ., but that doesn't justify my downloading and using it without paying for the privilege.

F*ck, if that rationale were to hold any weight, no one would pay for anything! They would just take it and say that the manufacturer/developer/whatever is not harmed because they would not have bought their product anyway.

Sorry to be ornery about this, but as an intellectual property attorney this line of thinking just baffles me. I've seen many stupid arguments in my lifetime, but very few rise to the level of absurdity as the "piracy is not theft" argument raised by some in this thread.

Believe me, it totally blows most peoples minds that are sane. Pirates make up some insane justifications to steal as you can see.

 

[Via]

Theft shmeft. Who cares? Piracy gets prosecuted worse than theft, doesn't it?

And in the meantime an entire industry is allowed to shit all over it's customers anytime they feel like it because their rights have been gradually whittled down to nothing.

What do you call that? Is that fraud?

 

[ImpulsE69]

The only insane people are the ones who can't get it through their heads that the correction has nothing to do with the reasoning or justification.

I just stole your game from you that you paid for. Did I pirate or steal? ;p

 

[jaqie]

It's a common argument - there have long been arguments over the semantics over stealing a physical item versus downloading a digital item. When I think of this argument, I think of Bill Clinton being depositioned over Monica Lewinski many years ago - and when the Judge asked him whether he made a false statement, "is that true", Clinton's response was "well that depends on what your definition of is, is".

How ridiculous was that answer?

Anyway, I find the entire argument tasteless and irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, regardless of where you stand on the definitions (who cares) - it is not moral, ethical, or legal to download entertainment for which you didn't pay. Furthermore, the reasons people cite as justifications for piracy are downright ridiculous.

Again, I can't stress enough. If you don't like a particular DRM, vote with your wallet. Don't ever buy from that company. Piracy isn't a justified answer.

I love how you are overgeneralizing everyone and everything you disagree with as the big bad evil boogeyman of piracy and trying to equate what some people do to some sort of civil rights entitlement. Grasping at straws.

I do however agree with you entirely to a point. If you don't pay for something the author wants money for you to play, then you are pirating and that is also stealing. You seem however to want things two ways - you seem to want to apply the physical rights to software saying all things you call piracy is stealing, but then you want to say that if DRM prevents someone from using it like it was a physical item then they are in the wrong as well... It has to be one or the other, not both. The opposite view is just as invalid, the whole not paying for a title and justifying it by saying it isn't a real item makes just as much sense (none).

I also agree that steam based games, whatever system is behind them (there are several), is agreeable because it (steam both app and company) does it's best to benefit the customer instead of restricting them.

 

[blackened23]

The only insane people are the ones who can't get it through their heads that the correction has nothing to do with the reasoning or justification.

I just stole your game from you that you paid for. Did I pirate or steal? ;p

People just like to pirate, pretty much while coming up with half baked justifications for that fact. You just don't like stating that you just don't want to pay explicitly. I pretty much feel that pirates in general are scumbags, and find their justifications to be absolutely hilarious. "games cost too much" 5$ Steam sales? "I don't like DRM" Steam is the most painfree DRM in existence. "I don't get refunds" nobody has offered software refunds in decades. "It makes me motion sick so I pirated it" lol. It goes on and on with these absolutely silly strawman arguments about how piracy is justified in their head. I could go on and point out how stupid these strawman arguments are but I won't.

How about pirates just be honest instead of spouting their ridiculous justifications? Just admit you like to pirate and don't feel like paying. I would almost have more respect for someone being HONEST instead of hiding behind the most retarded reasons i've ever heard in my life.

But I won't delve further on that, this discussion was originally about good and bad DRM. Apparently, you would rather discuss how piracy is all fine and dandy. Because no matter how pain-free the DRM is, pirates will still pirate. Scumbags will still be scumbags. Whatever you say.

 

[alcoholbob]

BSI is a 14-18 hour game. I don't think it is possible even running and gunning and skipping as much as possible that you could finish it in anywhere near 3-4 hours.

It's pretty short on easy mode when you are 1 shotting everything. And it's not like I stopped to pick up all the voxophones and read every plaque. I pretty much ran through the game.

As far as what's possible--have you ever heard of a speed run? There's one for every game. Check out youtube for some speedrun world records. Even games you think are 100 hour+ can be beaten in a few hours.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Either be smart like Valve by providing value-added services through Steam that pirates would actually want to pay games for, otherwise just STFU about piracy = stealing or whatever philosophical crap because they aren't going to care.