Driving experts - what to do when countersteer isn't enough?

[spidey07]

Popped into my head after watching the M3/police chase. It's happened to me twice.

What do you do in a rear wheel slide when your steering wheel is locked?

For example, somehow your butt (rear wheels) is moving to your left and you have fully locked the steering wheel to the left to counter and yet the butt is still gaining on your front.

What can one do with the brake/throttle to correct? Or are you screwed at that point?

I'd give a little throttle/feather to get the rear inline but the times I've been in that scenario the butt already had enough momentum to do whatever it wanted.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Popped into my head

 

[Kalvin00]

Neutral throttle position...hope and pray your tires don't catch hard enough to send you around the other way.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: spidey07
Popped into my head

A thought sparked by same day events or stimulus that surfaced unexpectadily.

 

[drinkmorejava]

I thought you were supposed to steer into the direction of slide?

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

When I've gone karting (RWD, 50 mph+ top speed, carbon fiber engine covers, you get the idea) and had this happen, I found letting off the pedal just for a split second can help with this. The issue is that you have to get back on the throttle very quickly to avoid from going to far to the other side.

This is obviously risky in small areas and so if you think it might happen again, get practicing. A day of karting can do wonders, I'd recommend giving it a shot possibly.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: spidey07
Popped into my head

A thought sparked by same day events or stimulus that surfaced unexpectadily.

Nevermind, I misread the post. Disregard.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: drinkmorejava
I thought you were supposed to steer into the direction of slide?

He is, as far as I can tell from the OP.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Also, what I said assumes you're not 180 degrees turned around... after a certain point it would probably depend on the area around you.

 

[Captante]

Let off the gas for a second & hope its enough to make the rear tires catch, then back on the gas but not quite as hard.

Of course a lot of the times when you blow the turn badly enough for this situation to occur what you do is wipe out.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
When I've gone karting (RWD, 50 mph+ top speed, carbon fiber engine covers, you get the idea) and had this happen, I found letting off the pedal just for a split second can help with this. The issue is that you have to get back on the throttle very quickly to avoid from going to far to the other side.

This is obviously risky in small areas and so if you think it might happen again, get practicing. A day of karting can do wonders, I'd recommend giving it a shot possibly.

Throw the weight to the front wheels and then put it on the back. Makes sense.

But remember tossing around traction/weight in a kart is a lot easier than in a full size car.

And with talk like that you had better be representing Wiley Hall in the Grand Prix.

 

[Xyclone]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: spidey07
Popped into my head

A thought sparked by same day events or stimulus that surfaced unexpectadily.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
When I've gone karting (RWD, 50 mph+ top speed, carbon fiber engine covers, you get the idea) and had this happen, I found letting off the pedal just for a split second can help with this. The issue is that you have to get back on the throttle very quickly to avoid from going to far to the other side.

This is obviously risky in small areas and so if you think it might happen again, get practicing. A day of karting can do wonders, I'd recommend giving it a shot possibly.

Throw the weight to the front wheels and then put it on the back. Makes sense.

But remember tossing around traction/weight in a kart is a lot easier than in a full size car.

And with talk like that you had better be representing Wiley Hall in the Grand Prix.

you're not tossing weight with the momentary lift-off, you're just trying to regain enough rear traction so that you can put weight on the rear wheels afterwards using the throttle.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

On snow, I've fishtailed going 50 and 65. Not fun, but I always counter steer with light braking. It's always worked.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
you're not tossing weight with the momentary lift-off, you're just trying to regain enough rear traction so that you can put weight on the rear wheels afterwards using the throttle.

Right. Understood.

But is there not a point of no return? You see it in racing as well - they have countered as much as they can and yet the butt is going to wind up ahead of the front.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: AgaBoogaBoo
When I've gone karting (RWD, 50 mph+ top speed, carbon fiber engine covers, you get the idea) and had this happen, I found letting off the pedal just for a split second can help with this. The issue is that you have to get back on the throttle very quickly to avoid from going to far to the other side.

This is obviously risky in small areas and so if you think it might happen again, get practicing. A day of karting can do wonders, I'd recommend giving it a shot possibly.

Throw the weight to the front wheels and then put it on the back. Makes sense.

But remember tossing around traction/weight in a kart is a lot easier than in a full size car.

And with talk like that you had better be representing Wiley Hall in the Grand Prix.

I agree that tossing the weight around in easier in a kart, but the same principle I'm talking about can still be applied.

What did you mean by the part I bolded? I know I'm new to a lot of this, but I think I had a good answer.

Edit: Whoa whoa whoa! Wiley Hall? Grand Prix? :shocked: Are you a Purdue grad?

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
you're not tossing weight with the momentary lift-off, you're just trying to regain enough rear traction so that you can put weight on the rear wheels afterwards using the throttle.

Right. Understood.

But is there not a point of no return? You see it in racing as well - they have countered as much as they can and yet the butt is going to wind up ahead of the front.

This part is hard to answer, partly because I'm not sure of what you do after a certain point where just adjusting throttle alone won't work. Maybe next time I go, I'll take pictures of certain situations and see if I can give a more detailed example.

To answer your question, yes there is a point of no return. Obviously before you reach that, you'll have a chance to change things, and anticipating it is the best way.

 

[SSSnail]

Heel toe driving FTW. Don't you watch any Initial-D?

 

[Hyperlite]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
you're not tossing weight with the momentary lift-off, you're just trying to regain enough rear traction so that you can put weight on the rear wheels afterwards using the throttle.

Right. Understood.

But is there not a point of no return? You see it in racing as well - they have countered as much as they can and yet the butt is going to wind up ahead of the front.

of course there is. without the ability to independently brake and accelerate wheels, you get to the point where you can't beat physics. enter: traction control.

 

[Hyperlite]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Heel toe driving FTW. Don't you watch any Initial-D?

 

[zerocool84]

Learn to modulate the throttle correctly

 

[BatmanNate]

I've found with a mid or rear engined car that by the time you're at that point you're already screwed.

 

[trmiv]

Get off the throttle some, a lot of the times if it hasn't gone too far you can gather it back up. I usually back all the way out until I get it handled, and then get back in the throttle. But at a certain point you aren't going to save the car, its best to just let it spin around.

And this comes from the experience of driving a 750 horsepower RWD race car on a oval tracks.

 

[Pepsi90919]

slow the fvck down?

 

[Zenmervolt]

"Start to spin, both feet in."

Clutch to the floor and hard on the brakes.

Once you can't save it, you want to stop it as soon as possible. There's no secret outside of counter-steering and watching throttle inputs for catching it, so once that has been used up, it's time to just stop as fast as you can.

ZV