Drifting or Racing?

[GalvanizedYankee]

I searched but could not find the article in the achieves of Roadracing World & Motorcycle Technology. About two years ago they did extensive testing on lap times vs tire heat build-up. The top rides tend to do two wheel drifts at speed,
often leaving black streaks on the track from both tires.

Their bottom line was, tires run cooler, lap times are better and tires last longer when not kept hooked-up when turning at high speeds. There is less flexing of the casing so less heat is generated in the tire. What about the heat during slippage? They said it was less than when hooked-up.

I would think the same applies to high performance cars, on the track.


Before someone posts a pic of a lurid, spin your rear tire smokey. I'm referring to a professional rider doing laps not an asshat clown on a some backroad doing slides to impress the impressionable.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Apex
Drifting is the fastest way around a turn. This being said, races are won and lost on the straights.

snip

The lower the surface traction, the more easily drift allows you to control a turn, carry speed, and exit well.

Odd. I was watching Speed channel just yesterday, and I didn't see a single car drifting through the corners.

And that must be why all the sports cars have huge wings on them. To create lift! More lift = less downward force on tires = less traction = better lap times! It all makes so much sense now!

 

[boyRacer]

Wings... small narrow tires... racecars nowadays have very small slip angles. Watch a video of grand prix cars in 1967... the last year where cars had no wings... watch a video of grand prix cars in the 1980s... big turbos with big fat slicks... go take a racing class... they will all tell you that on a neutral car all 4 wheels will be sliding. Ayrton Senna himself described the art of 4 wheel drift. An understeering setup will consistently be faster over a race distance because it is easier to anticipate and duplicate lap after lap than dancing at the limit of adhesion.

You can not see on TV but if you have driven around on a track in a car that is not as dependent on aerodynamics Im sure you can see how rotating the car with as small steering input as possible will yield to faster exit speed which will result to a faster straightaway speed which will result to a faster laptime because in every one of those corners you got on the gas earlier than you could have. Ayrton Senna acknowledges it as well in his driving literatures.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Drifting works best on loose surfaces. If the surface is a good, firm surface, keep the tires planted. The reason why drifting works on loose surfaces is because the surface itself moves and you need to actually dig in to keep the tires from rolling around on marbles, it also gives a little bit of a jet-ski like effect. If the surface IS hard, then the whole game is different. It's static friction vs. dynamic friction, and static friction is higher every time. So you want to stay in the realm of static friction. Notice how few NASCAR or F1 drivers drift during a race? (when they're not involved in a wreck) Approximately none. Sprint car and rally cars drift all the time because they're almost always on very loose surfaces.

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Apex
Drifting is the fastest way around a turn. This being said, races are won and lost on the straights.

snip

The lower the surface traction, the more easily drift allows you to control a turn, carry speed, and exit well.

Odd. I was watching Speed channel just yesterday, and I didn't see a single car drifting through the corners.

And that must be why all the sports cars have huge wings on them. To create lift! More lift = less downward force on tires = less traction = better lap times! It all makes so much sense now!

Depends on what type of track they're racing on. As I said above, the fastest way around a turn is almost NEVER the fastest way around a track.

 

[PowerMac4Ever]

Originally posted by: AgaBooga

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: AgaBooga

Of course they aren't the same, but yo u still need to slow down regardless of real life or rally. I guess my example really depends on the terrain and the car

No sh*t sherlock. You can't say "oh yeah, well on the internet in rally video games, some other internet virtual racers kind of like me, they don't slow down from 100 mph going into a 90 degree turn" and expect that to have ANY bearing on real life. There is NO CAR on this planet that can make a 90 deg right turn at 100 mph. Like posted earlier, "why even open your mouth?"

wth? I'm really confused

Are you talking about video games? Somehow, I don't think "racing" online is the same thing as an actual track.

I never mentioned video games or real life in my post...

You're 16, drive a fwd accord, and are posting racing advice based on video games...

STFU

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: PowerMac4Ever

Originally posted by: AgaBooga

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: AgaBooga

Of course they aren't the same, but yo u still need to slow down regardless of real life or rally. I guess my example really depends on the terrain and the car

No sh*t sherlock. You can't say "oh yeah, well on the internet in rally video games, some other internet virtual racers kind of like me, they don't slow down from 100 mph going into a 90 degree turn" and expect that to have ANY bearing on real life. There is NO CAR on this planet that can make a 90 deg right turn at 100 mph. Like posted earlier, "why even open your mouth?"

wth? I'm really confused

Are you talking about video games? Somehow, I don't think "racing" online is the same thing as an actual track.

I never mentioned video games or real life in my post...

You're 16, drive a fwd accord, and are posting racing advice based on video games...

STFU

Thanks for reminding me, I was trying to make a point that a certain amount of drifting in certain forms and on certain types of tracks in rally racing can be a good thing. Oh, and all accords are fwd except probably a few people dumped too much money into.

What did you drive when you were 16?

Oh, by the way, how's the Supra restoration coming along? You seem to actually be quite knowledgable so why don't you give me your opinion on how drifting can/should be used in racing.

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: galvanizedyankee
I searched but could not find the article in the achieves of Roadracing World & Motorcycle Technology. About two years ago they did extensive testing on lap times vs tire heat build-up. The top rides tend to do two wheel drifts at speed,
often leaving black streaks on the track from both tires.

Their bottom line was, tires run cooler, lap times are better and tires last longer when not kept hooked-up when turning at high speeds. There is less flexing of the casing so less heat is generated in the tire. What about the heat during slippage? They said it was less than when hooked-up.

I would think the same applies to high performance cars, on the track.


Before someone posts a pic of a lurid, spin your rear tire smokey. I'm referring to a professional rider doing laps not an asshat clown on a some backroad doing slides to impress the impressionable.

Exactly.

...think about it... a front tire on a motocycle sliding... i don't know why its so hard to see that the front tires on a car can slide as well. those bikes are sliding because they dont have humongous wings and dont depend heavily on aerodynamics.

the word drifting is now defined by huge lurid slides thanks to the explosion of the japanese drifting trend in the US. if you have seen michael schumacher push his ferrari back around the late 90s where he did not have the best car... you will see him 4 wheel drifting with almost no steering at all... (1998 Argentina the last corner of his last qualifying lap and 1998 Hungary were he had to make up 20 seconds in 19 laps)... nowadays that the ferrari is aerodynamically the best car in the field you dont see him doing that much anymore.

EDIT: He is an exception though... as he is one of the greatest F1 drivers of all time if not the greatest. For normal people... a slightly understeering setup will be much more consistent throughout a race distance.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

bR, it is typical, not just here, that ppl will argue apples & oranges, compare NASCAR to F-1, Sprint cars to Indy cars,
Rally cars to dirt bikes. It really is kind of funny.

In it's rawest form, the wing brought us The World of Outlaws vs Sprints.

In the early 60's Phil Hill used a mega vacuum cleaner like fan to suck air from under the car along with ground effects.
For long tracks it ate-up to much HP but on short tracks it was dominate. It was declared illegal after one season.