Dragon Age 3: Inquisition announced

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orbster556

Senior member
Dec 14, 2005
228
0
71
Uh, did you play ME1 and ME2 before trying ME3?

I loved ME1 but am not a fan of either ME2 and ME3. In my view, they basically turned the series into a Gears of War clone with a conversation wheel -- because I guess reading dialogue options is too hard -- and false, Manichean choices.

Not arguing that ME3 didn't have high production values or was, relatively speaking, well executed. Only that the game changed into something approaching GoW-lite.

Regards,
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
The god child from the dark ritual is a major plot element in DAO that felt completely marginalized and half ignored in the atrociously bad Witch Hunt DLC.

Personally I played through DA once in about 80 hours and don't even remember the whole baby thing aside from Morrigan pulling me to the side and explaining some overly convoluted plan involving having a child at one point near the end. Point being as far as what I remember from DA goes, the baby is not part of it. I don't/didn't feel it was important.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
I loved ME1 but am not a fan of either ME2 and ME3. In my view, they basically turned the series into a Gears of War clone with a conversation wheel -- because I guess reading dialogue options is too hard -- and false, Manichean choices.

Not arguing that ME3 didn't have high production values or was, relatively speaking, well executed. Only that the game changed into something approaching GoW-lite.

Regards,

This is something I agree with. ME1 had its issues like the mako, but it was a far better game than the following two.
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
81
Personally I played through DA once in about 80 hours and don't even remember the whole baby thing aside from Morrigan pulling me to the side and explaining some overly convoluted plan involving having a child at one point near the end. Point being as far as what I remember from DA goes, the baby is not part of it. I don't/didn't feel it was important.

Well, they underdid it , but basically...remember the ArchDemon? Spoilered for those who need it:

There were like 7 Dragon Gods from long ago that tempted the Mages into assaulting the Maker's Golden City. The mages got turned into the first Darkspawn, and they basically had a craving to find the dragon gods and when they do, it corrupts them into archdemons. The dark ritual of Morrigan basically allowed you to save the soul of one of the gods and rebirth it into a human..that's a HUGE thing in game lore...

Makes you wonder, maybe when all the old gods are dead, the darkspawn will stop too?
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Well, they underdid it , but basically...remember the ArchDemon? Spoilered for those who need it:

There were like 7 Dragon Gods from long ago that tempted the Mages into assaulting the Maker's Golden City. The mages got turned into the first Darkspawn, and they basically had a craving to find the dragon gods and when they do, it corrupts them into archdemons. The dark ritual of Morrigan basically allowed you to save the soul of one of the gods and rebirth it into a human..that's a HUGE thing in game lore...

Makes you wonder, maybe when all the old gods are dead, the darkspawn will stop too?

I don't think they underdid it. It was at the end of the game. Much like the collector base, the decision *should* have massive ramifications in a future game. But instead of DA2 being more of the blight, they decided to get on their high horse and do a "mages vs templars" theme that was pretty terrible...and DA3 will continue it. I'd prefer to forget DA2 existed, delete the entire DA3 codebase and make a new game which continues the blight storyline.

tl;dr: I won't be pre-ordering DA3 like I did DA2. I'll wait for a steam summer sale and spend 10 cents on DA3, to compensate for giving them money for DA2.
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
I loved ME1 but am not a fan of either ME2 and ME3. In my view, they basically turned the series into a Gears of War clone with a conversation wheel -- because I guess reading dialogue options is too hard -- and false, Manichean choices.

Not arguing that ME3 didn't have high production values or was, relatively speaking, well executed. Only that the game changed into something approaching GoW-lite.

Regards,

The Gears of War influence on the combat mechanics of Mass Effect is clear throughout the series. But there is plenty enough to distinguish it from GoW to avoid being called a "clone" -- different powers like tech and biotics, leveling up, weapon and armor customization, varied squad members, pausing to give orders, etc. Mass Effect 2 , IMO, was a step forward from Mass Effect in a lot of ways, though a regression in some others. But by Mass Effect 3 I think they got the balance right.

I don't think they underdid it. It was at the end of the game. Much like the collector base, the decision *should* have massive ramifications in a future game. But instead of DA2 being more of the blight, they decided to get on their high horse and do a "mages vs templars" theme that was pretty terrible...and DA3 will continue it. I'd prefer to forget DA2 existed, delete the entire DA3 codebase and make a new game which continues the blight storyline.

tl;dr: I won't be pre-ordering DA3 like I did DA2. I'll wait for a steam summer sale and spend 10 cents on DA3, to compensate for giving them money for DA2.

The Blight storyline is pretty generic though. For me the draw about Dragon Age has never been the storyline, but the fully realized world and the well written characters that inhabit it.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
The Blight storyline is pretty generic though. For me the draw about Dragon Age has never been the storyline, but the fully realized world and the well written characters that inhabit it.

While I'll agree to some extent, the DA2 failed horribly in that regard. Many of the people in DA2 were downright annoying and I wanted to see them burn. DAO and the expansion for it were good, though.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
Then you're in the minority.

That is fine. I accept it. It doesn't stop me from vocalizing my opinion or ceasing to buy Bioware games.

I don't think you should write of EVERY criticism of Mass Effect 3 as being about the ending, since the whole game is deeply flawed and lackluster.

I know there are those who agree with me, so I'll take comfort in that to make up for what I perceive to be the death of one of my used-to-be-favorite developers.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
DA2 started off decently well and after realizing I was spending the entire game in the same city and going to the same zones reskinned over and over, it quickly wore thin. I mean -- it was ridiculous. Every dungeon I did towards the second half of the game for a quest was a re-skin with rehashed mobs. It really was unbelievable.

DA2 has to be the most rushed game I've played in the past couple of years. If DA3 is like that, I am not interested whatsoever. I loved DA:O immensely, and going to DA2 after that was such a huge letdown.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
8,491
9,915
136
IMO ME series gets a lot of love/hate kinda because it started as one thing (a more old school, node based rpg/shooter like Bioware games past) and ended up something completely different (Story driven and directional, more like Final Fantasy than Baldur's Gate). People who like old Bioware love ME1 and hate 3. Others feel the opposite. I am personally in the camp that the series *generally* got much better and more polished as it went on and the the real stinker with ME3's ending. Its like eating a sandwich that gets better and better with every bite, you can't stop, then the last bite is actually filled with crap and you gag and pass out. Ending notwithstanding, we would be luckly to get a DAI with ME3's production values and cohesive direction.

DA2's worse failing was really the mindblowing lack of maps. They didn't even have the city weather over the years or anything. The meandering, directionless story didn't help things either. Gameplay was just fine and I didn't get all the crying about horned Quinari and the animations, I personally enjoyed the over-stylized combat. I could do without the spawned waves of enemies though.

Dragon Age Inquisition - I am cautiously optimistic about this game. I'm glad to hear the writers haven't completely forgotten DA:O and even though the Warden's story is complete it doesn't mean threads that began in his/her game cannot be picked up in others. Hopefully more of Morigan's God baby is explained/explored, and lets not forget the Architect and the Smartspawn from Awakening. I do wish your character wasn't an inquisitor, that sort of per-disposes you to one side and it would have been nice to have different racial origins and have that work itself into the story (Elves have a completely different relationship with magic than humans do, for example). We'll see how this goes and if the game keeps me as engaged as ME3 then it'll have been a success.
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
That is fine. I accept it. It doesn't stop me from vocalizing my opinion or ceasing to buy Bioware games.

I don't think you should write of EVERY criticism of Mass Effect 3 as being about the ending, since the whole game is deeply flawed and lackluster.

I know there are those who agree with me, so I'll take comfort in that to make up for what I perceive to be the death of one of my used-to-be-favorite developers.

Sure. More power to you. I was more or less responding to frozentundra suggesting that ME3 "was slammed" in general because they abandoned their "BioWare standards", which would mean problems that went beyond the ending. That's not the case; most people who played the game enjoyed it overall, up until the terrible ending (and, believe it or not, a lot of people didn't actually have much of a problem with the ending). Just making sure the vocal minority that disliked the game overall doesn't get to thinking that it's anything more than a vocal minority.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Sure. More power to you. I was more or less responding to frozentundra suggesting that ME3 "was slammed" in general because they abandoned their "BioWare standards", which would mean problems that went beyond the ending. That's not the case; most people who played the game enjoyed it overall, up until the terrible ending (and, believe it or not, a lot of people didn't actually have much of a problem with the ending). Just making sure the vocal minority that disliked the game overall doesn't get to thinking that it's anything more than a vocal minority.


Well there were enough people in that "vocal minority" to force Bioware to lamely write a new ending.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Personally I played through DA once in about 80 hours and don't even remember the whole baby thing aside from Morrigan pulling me to the side and explaining some overly convoluted plan involving having a child at one point near the end. Point being as far as what I remember from DA goes, the baby is not part of it. I don't/didn't feel it was important.

Well, they underdid it , but basically...remember the ArchDemon? Spoilered for those who need it:

There were like 7 Dragon Gods from long ago that tempted the Mages into assaulting the Maker's Golden City. The mages got turned into the first Darkspawn, and they basically had a craving to find the dragon gods and when they do, it corrupts them into archdemons. The dark ritual of Morrigan basically allowed you to save the soul of one of the gods and rebirth it into a human..that's a HUGE thing in game lore...

Makes you wonder, maybe when all the old gods are dead, the darkspawn will stop too?


As maniacalpha1 wrote, its a huge thing with the game's lore. If you just played through the game as fast as possible, ignoring the conversations, books, and internal lore, you missed a large chunk of the game. If you were a CoD/Diablo fan though, I'm not sure why you bought DAO in the first place. :p



Well there were enough people in that "vocal minority" to force Bioware to lamely write a new ending.

Hehe, I was looking on the ME3 Fan Creations forums on social.bioware.com, and there's several mods that re-do the ending completely. :p
 
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Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
Well there were enough people in that "vocal minority" to force Bioware to lamely write a new ending.

Again, you're confusing people who disliked the ending with people who disliked the game overall. I'm saying that much of the anger being focused on the ending was fueled by how much people liked the game to begin with. They were a group significant enough to get BioWare to change the ending; the people who disliked the game overall remain a vocal minority. In fact, if most people didn't like the game overall, we probably wouldn't have gotten a different ending as people would have spread the criticism over the entire game rather than the ending.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
As maniacalpha1 wrote, its a huge thing with the game's lore. If you just played through the game as fast as possible, ignoring the conversations, books, and internal lore, you missed a large chunk of the game. If you were a CoD/Diablo fan though, I'm not sure why you bought DAO in the first place. :p

Lovely ad hominem.

80 hour playthrough is a bit on the long side, even for Dragon Age. I don't think it was important and none of what was mentioned as lore surrounding it sounds particularly familiar personally. It's only important to you because you assign these alleged repercussions to it, but in the game itself I felt it was out of place and obtuse, and as such it didn't stick with me; basically Morrigan pulls you into a dark room and presents you with this absurd plan out of nowhere. If it was crucial, the game didn't do a particularly good job at presenting it as such imo. Though I'm pretty sure I told Morrigan not to do it and shove off because I wouldn't make the Templar do it for her; so maybe some of it was skipped for me.

I know there are those who agree with me

lol
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
Just making sure the vocal minority that disliked the game overall doesn't get to thinking that it's anything more than a vocal minority.

What a weird thing to say. Is this vocal minority threatening something lol?

I guess I'm part of said minority - actually, as forumers talking about it we all are - but I felt the game, in particular the ending, was a MAJOR let down. One of the key things they talked about when Mass Effect first came out was that choices would matter, but by the third game they showed that was a false. And the whole "star child" ending was just pathetic. I don't think the DLC ending expansion was good either. They just expanded upon a poorly written ending, they didn't actually change it.

ME3, as well as DA2 are just more examples of what happens to good dev companies when they get bought out by the likes of EA.
 

surfsatwerk

Lifer
Mar 6, 2008
10,110
5
81
Sure. More power to you. I was more or less responding to frozentundra suggesting that ME3 "was slammed" in general because they abandoned their "BioWare standards", which would mean problems that went beyond the ending. That's not the case; most people who played the game enjoyed it overall, up until the terrible ending (and, believe it or not, a lot of people didn't actually have much of a problem with the ending). Just making sure the vocal minority that disliked the game overall doesn't get to thinking that it's anything more than a vocal minority.

Vocal majority that will never purchase this game in protest of their shit product.
 

ArenCordial

Senior member
Sep 18, 2012
214
15
81
New Info.

DAI is in next issue of GameInformer

www.gameinformer.com/dai

Looks like backgrounds are out but races are back in. That's right Elves and Dwarves people. Seems like race will now determine your background.

Still not a day one but cautiously optimistic news.
 
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Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
What a weird thing to say. Is this vocal minority threatening something lol?

Nah, I just like keeping things straight.

Vocal majority that will never purchase this game in protest of their shit product.

Uh, what? How can you not purchase a game that you've already played through (meaning you most likely bought it) in order to be able to say you disliked it?
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Uh, what? How can you not purchase a game that you've already played through (meaning you most likely bought it) in order to be able to say you disliked it?

I think he's referring to people not buying DA3.

I'm in the "I'm not preordering unless they show some amazing gameplay videos months in advance that show the game is as amazing as DAO" category.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
I don't know how any sane person could preorder DA3 after DA2.

I'm interested to see the sales numbers of DA3 compared to 2 and 1.
 

ArenCordial

Senior member
Sep 18, 2012
214
15
81
Quick Summary of Info, I pulled from the forums.

-Wants to make the action less frantic and more deliberate, returning to more tactics-oriented approach to encounters. Big return to party-based tactics

-Part of that is slowing down speed of attacks, more important is designing enemies that force you to examine the battlefield and choose actions carefully

-Battles veer away from button mashing toward a structure where observation and reaction take precedence

-Instead of swarming enemies, your foes have specialized roles; work together and force you to size up the battlefield

-You won’t regularly see waves of new bad guys appearing out of nowhere to extend encounters

-PC gamers getting an optimized version; “PC actually is different, especially from a controls standpoint”, trying to “recapture the very tailored experience of DA:O on PC”

-Going from Eastern Ferelden to Western Orlais; repetitive environments are nowhere to be found in DAI like in DA2.

-Players aren’t just funneled down narrow corridors, the demo showed a bog, desert, a mountain range, all enormous and freely explored in third person.

-Lots of hidden things to find, caves, dungeons, corpses, etc that create other unique sidequests

-“Trying to drive exploration- something that frankly, Bioware hasn’t done in a while.” “In a way like Baldur’s Gate, areas that existed in part just to spaces that you went to, but they had a story of their own.”

-Want to make sure there a sufficient number of caves in the game that are each unique, and optional. If you have a mage in your group, you can use a spell to reassemble a crumbled bridge to reach a new area.

-Can also restore a ruined desert outpost into an Inquisition stronghold

-So much ground to cover that mounted creatures are implemented

-Monsters, and dragons for example, do not level up with you. Some are vastly more powerful, forcing you to come back later with proper experience

-Some environmental destructibility

-Warrior class has grappling chain that can pull enemies in close (eww makes me think God of War)

-Enemy scenario: Fighting a massive, armored dragon, you can target a leg, send warrior into melee range to bash off armor, rogue can sneak up and poison the exposed limb, dragon stumbles around allowing others to unleash spells etc (seems like improved cross class combo system)

-Weather effects can impact exploration, ex. Rainfall, desert sandstorms

-Rainy weather can make areas muddy, slowing down your traversal/agility in combat, while sandstorms can inflict damage causing you to seek shelter

-Both Varric and Cassandra also join you

-Working hard to make large areas interesting; slopes, rocks, elevations and your character has tailored animations for overcoming each. Ease of movement key.

-Morrigan is not a party member; not a cameo role though

-Collect resources/materials and craft armor for you and all your party members; heavy emphasis on customization

-Each armor retains a certain iconic look, but looks different on each character. They want the squadmates to each have an iconic look, but customize armor to tailor to each while retaining elements of that iconic look

-Your racial choice colors your interactions with others; for example elves may be persecuted in some parts, but an enclave of elves is more likely to open up to one of their own.

-Chantry/Templars don’t respect your Inquisition, you have “persuade” them through your own means. You can come across a fortress and if refused entry, you can lay siege to it and break down the doors. What you do from there is your choice.

-Hinting that you have a base of operations, maybe a castle to call your own

-Dialogue wheel returns, but the team has focused a lot on making the selections accurate to what your character says. They’ve now added an optional addition to the wheel that gives you better idea of what to expect

-A lot of loose ends will be resolved in the story; expect full resolutions to things like Red Lyrium, the activities of the Grey Wardens, and Flemeth, and also Morrigan

-Working very hard to ensure your saves/decisions will carry over to next-gen consoles (not sure how they plan on doing that or if it will matter if the pull another Anders/Leliana resurrection.

-No health regeneration after encounters (that's interesting. I really didn't expect that reminds me of the old school BG days. That or its means you'll always need a mage in party.)
 
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cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
Neat. Of course, the big question is: will be like DA1 (great) or DA2 (not).

I really liked DA1. Honestly, DA2 was clearly a lesser game, but I still really enjoyed it as well. I guess I'm in the minority.

But then again, I actually liked the original ending to ME3, so I guess I have no actual credibility.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,233
234
106
Quick Summary of Info, I pulled from the forums:

Sounds like it will be better than DA2, but there is no way I'm preordering. I will wait out the release, watch tons of game play footage, keep on eye on the forums, and maybe one day buy it if they deliver a good game.