Dragon Age 3: Inquisition announced

[bystander36]

It's not just here but bioware DA:I forums as well,I won't bother linking all the threads on this hot topic,DAO and DA2 IMHO were ok and I could live with all the changes they made,it was not until DA:I came along that I had to voice my disapproval.

Having said all that DA4 should be an easier fix since only way is up IMHO from DA:I.

I don't need links. I already said that you can see the hate in this thread. I wouldn't expect anywhere else to be different. It doesn't matter how great a game is, some people will dislike it. Bioware will have plenty of things to work on, based on those who hated this or that.

 

[artemicion]

War Room was a decent idea with shitty implementation. It seems like they were shooting for something like the Garrison Missions in WoW, which was pretty well received by the player base. Major differences were that WoW's Garrison Missions were convenient (when you teleport to your Garrison it plops you right next to your Mission Table) and the Garrison Missions felt very rewarding (rewards were useful items, followers leveled up creating a progression system yielding more powerful items). War Room feels half-baked in comparison.

 

[Mem]

I don't need links. I already said that you can see the hate in this thread. I wouldn't expect anywhere else to be different. It doesn't matter how great a game is, some people will dislike it. Bioware will have plenty of things to work on, based on those who hated this or that.

It's not really a hate thread more a feedback thread from all those that are or have played the game,you have to remember I did say I like the crafting side of it and MP is not that bad even with the bugs which should get fixed in the following patches down the road.

Speaking of MP I do think ME3 MP is a lot better but then FPS seem to work better in MP then what DA:I MP has at the moment,main issue for me is lack of maps,only three maps however plenty of classes you can play once you unlock them all.

Nobody stated you can't be a DA fan and still not hate or criticize certain aspects of the game.

 

[bystander36]

It's not really a hate thread more a feedback thread from all those that are or have played the game,you have to remember I did say I like the crafting side of it and MP is not that bad even with the bugs which should get fixed in the following patches down the road.

Speaking of MP I do think ME3 MP is a lot better but then FPS seem to work better in MP then what DA:I MP has at the moment,main issue for me is lack of maps,only three maps however plenty of classes you can play once you unlock them all.

Nobody stated you can't be a DA fan and still not hate or criticize certain aspects of the game.

I didn't mean to say this was a hate thread, only there are plenty of people who hate different things about the game, and some who flat hate the game. There are plenty of people who like it too. My point is, no matter what you do, there are "some" people who will hate it.

 

[KeithTalent]

I like the game, certainly do not hate it, but there are just certain things about Inquisition that I dislike and they are larger things when compared to what I disliked in the previous games.

KT

 

[frozentundra123456]

I don't dislike it, and I don't see how you could remove it. Something else would have to take its place.

Well, you could just have a more open world like Skyrim, and not have to come back to the war room to get quests to open up new areas. I mean "open" in the sense that it is not divided off into zones like in DA:I. I did not find the war room particularly annoying, but I dont think you have to have it. I mean Skyrim, or KOTOR, or a myriad of other RPGs, managed to open up plenty of quests just by interaction with other characters or the environment, so you dont really need a war table. It kind of reminds me of the galaxy map in Mass Effect, but not as well implemented.

But of the complaints I have about DA:I, the war table would be far down the list. Dont get me wrong, I like the game, but there are definitely things that I would like to see changed, like more hotbar slots, a better search/interaction interface for PC, a return of healing spells, less find x number of these quests, and a more forcused and interesting main quest.

 

[cbrunny]

A lack of healing spells is pretty major for me.

 

[KeithTalent]

Well, you could just have a more open world like Skyrim, and not have to come back to the war room to get quests to open up new areas. I mean "open" in the sense that it is not divided off into zones like in DA:I. I did not find the war room particularly annoying, but I dont think you have to have it. I mean Skyrim, or KOTOR, or a myriad of other RPGs, managed to open up plenty of quests just by interaction with other characters or the environment, so you dont really need a war table. It kind of reminds me of the galaxy map in Mass Effect, but not as well implemented.

But of the complaints I have about DA:I, the war table would be far down the list. Dont get me wrong, I like the game, but there are definitely things that I would like to see changed, like more hotbar slots, a better search/interaction interface for PC, a return of healing spells, less find x number of these quests, and a more forcused and interesting main quest.

Ugh, yeah, the stupid circle-dot thing is obnoxious! I also would like them to make mages more interesting and diverse like they used to be.

KT

 

[artemicion]

A lack of healing spells is pretty major for me.

I'm OK with not having healing spells. To me, it's just a gameplay mechanic/aesthetic that doesn't materially impact the overall big picture much.

However, Bioware's stated rationale for removing healing spells is pretty dumb:

http://forum.bioware.com/topic/514541-no-healing-spells-whatsoever/page-22#entry17416109

The devs basically say, we took out healing spells because it made balancing encounters too difficult because healing spells meant characters effectively had infinite HP.

First of all, their basic premise is flawed. Healing spells do not mean players effectively have infinite HP. It just means you have to account for healing RATE when balancing encounters. The dev ignores the TIME factor when it comes to healing spells. You only have infinite health if you have infinite time. Players never have infinite time.

Second of all, healing has been a gameplay mechanic implemented in RPGs since the dawn of RPGs and it's never been much of a stumbling block in terms of balancing the difficulty of encounters. Why is it so freakin' hard for Bioware devs to account for healing when balancing encounters?

 

[KeithTalent]

That is dumb, because they essentially just gave you infinite healing potions instead. I would much rather build a character with specific healing abilities.

KT

 

[bystander36]

Well, you could just have a more open world like Skyrim, and not have to come back to the war room to get quests to open up new areas. I mean "open" in the sense that it is not divided off into zones like in DA:I. I did not find the war room particularly annoying, but I dont think you have to have it. I mean Skyrim, or KOTOR, or a myriad of other RPGs, managed to open up plenty of quests just by interaction with other characters or the environment, so you dont really need a war table. It kind of reminds me of the galaxy map in Mass Effect, but not as well implemented.

But of the complaints I have about DA:I, the war table would be far down the list. Dont get me wrong, I like the game, but there are definitely things that I would like to see changed, like more hotbar slots, a better search/interaction interface for PC, a return of healing spells, less find x number of these quests, and a more forcused and interesting main quest.

Keep in mind, the war table isn't strictly a mechanic to controlling the flow of the game, it gives you the feeling of leading a world power. You don't lead anything in those games (Not sure on ME, I haven't played that yet), but you do in this one. They wanted to give you that experience. The war table gives you the feeling of leading, and not simply being a one man army.

 

[Mem]

Keep in mind, the war table isn't strictly a mechanic to controlling the flow of the game, it gives you the feeling of leading a world power. You don't lead anything in those games (Not sure on ME, I haven't played that yet), but you do in this one. They wanted to give you that experience. The war table gives you the feeling of leading, and not simply being a one man army.

I remember in Awakening expansion pack for DAO where you as the grey warden commander had to make decisions etc that affected the outcome,it did it quite well without a war room,you know the trial part at Sky hold,they got that idea from Awakening expansion pack,anybody that has played it knows what I mean.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Keep in mind, the war table isn't strictly a mechanic to controlling the flow of the game, it gives you the feeling of leading a world power. You don't lead anything in those games (Not sure on ME, I haven't played that yet), but you do in this one. They wanted to give you that experience. The war table gives you the feeling of leading, and not simply being a one man army.

That is true, I suppose, but if so, I feel it was not well implemented. Granted you got a few powers and some resources, but if they really wanted to give the feeling of a world leader, and of having the missions mean something, they should have let you recruit armies, like Elves or Dwarfs or whatever race and had them fight along side you and really influence the difficulties of the final battles.

I am not quite done with the game, but I have not seen that so far.

 

[bystander36]

I remember in Awakening expansion pack for DAO where you as the grey warden commander had to make decisions etc that affected the outcome,it did it quite well without a war room,you know the trial part at Sky hold,they got that idea from Awakening expansion pack,anybody that has played it knows what I mean.

I played it. And while you were the commander of the keep, the keep was almost completely destroyed when you got there. There were just a handful of people left. They also did not convey that you were the lead of a big power, where you actually commanded people. Instead, you did everything yourself, except for 1 moment, when you made a choice between saving Adamantium (not sure i recall the city name) and the Warden's keep.

I guess if you don't care about trying to convey different aspects of a game, you don't need anything. They choose to do what they did to make you feel like a leader of a large power.

Sure, they didn't have to, but then it would seem like you were an actual leader.

 

[cbrunny]

Keep in mind, the war table isn't strictly a mechanic to controlling the flow of the game, it gives you the feeling of leading a world power. You don't lead anything in those games (Not sure on ME, I haven't played that yet), but you do in this one. They wanted to give you that experience. The war table gives you the feeling of leading, and not simply being a one man army.

That may be the attempt, but it failed. The war room gives me the feeling of what it would be like if I put the most important thing in my house behind 7 doors in the back corner, and then when I finally got to the last door I couldn't open it for 15 seconds while the door opened (loading time). Then, instead of being super fun and cool and neat to use, it threw walls of text at me and didn't explain what kind of rewards I'd receive if I do the simplest thing possible (push A) and then turn off my system and come back tomorrow.

Being out on the map is fun. Skyhold is a big drag in its entirety. I'd much have preferred a camp like in DA:O. Less distractions.

 

[bystander36]

That is true, I suppose, but if so, I feel it was not well implemented. Granted you got a few powers and some resources, but if they really wanted to give the feeling of a world leader, and of having the missions mean something, they should have let you recruit armies, like Elves or Dwarfs or whatever race and had them fight along side you and really influence the difficulties of the final battles.

I am not quite done with the game, but I have not seen that so far.

They do let you recruit other armies. Starting with the choice between templars and mages, and even to a lesser degree dwarves. That isn't to say they were part of any important battles that you see.

Spoiler

I only recall them in 2. The Adamant and elven relic battles.

The battles were done with the idea that you were the commander of those particular battles and your armies did other stuff while you did your stuff.

 

[bystander36]

That may be the attempt, but it failed. The war room gives me the feeling of what it would be like if I put the most important thing in my house behind 7 doors in the back corner, and then when I finally got to the last door I couldn't open it for 15 seconds while the door opened (loading time). Then, instead of being super fun and cool and neat to use, it threw walls of text at me and didn't explain what kind of rewards I'd receive if I do the simplest thing possible (push A) and then turn off my system and come back tomorrow.

Being out on the map is fun. Skyhold is a big drag in its entirety. I'd much have preferred a camp like in DA:O. Less distractions.

So basically you didn't hate the table as much as the load time.

 

[cbrunny]

So basically you didn't hate the table as much as the load time.

Sorry I misspoke. I meant being out on the playable map, not the war room map. Like out with the monsters and bad dudes and rifts and stuff.

 

[escrow4]

That may be the attempt, but it failed. The war room gives me the feeling of what it would be like if I put the most important thing in my house behind 7 doors in the back corner, and then when I finally got to the last door I couldn't open it for 15 seconds while the door opened (loading time). Then, instead of being super fun and cool and neat to use, it threw walls of text at me and didn't explain what kind of rewards I'd receive if I do the simplest thing possible (push A) and then turn off my system and come back tomorrow.

Being out on the map is fun. Skyhold is a big drag in its entirety. I'd much have preferred a camp like in DA:O. Less distractions.

3 seconds loading time here with a 500GB EVO.

 

[cbrunny]

3 seconds loading time here with a 500GB EVO.

congrats? I guess?

 

[bystander36]

Anyways, while I don't dislike the war table, I don't really love it either, but it does perform a couple functions in both game mechanics and story telling. Some things would have to be done to make up for its loss.

I've also seen so many games ruined in sequels when it comes to removing mechanics people hated. Not all things that are a bit annoying are better when removed. While the table could be removed, something should be put in its place to make up for the loss.

 

[Blanky]

I can't imagine anyone actually likes the War Room, so that has to be something they will look at. Such a dumb waste of time.

KT

I liked its analogue in mass effect 3. The thing is there it didn't have all the superfluous crap. I am dreading returning to my war room now because it has a dozen Incompleted "missions" and I have to send those pointless people out then 15 min later some bullshit useless weapon is given to me or I make 105 gold or earn 7 elfroot. The war room should be interesting but it feels like paper pushing; secretarial work.

Disagree vehemently with byatander36's assertion that war room gives a sense of leadership. On the contrary it gives a sense of being a secretary; you click "okay" to things that automatically show up irrespective of anything else you have done or will do, with few exceptions. You click them as you have power (I unlocked all regions I think and always had the power on band when I wanted to so I never felt I had to save any up).

There is no leadership at all in the game that I can tell, no indication that anything I have done has affected anything. I chose Mage over Templar but where else has it mattered? They do it of course because giving people choices means they skip missions that developed spent time on, but this war table is a deceptive facade and nothing more. Does it matter if a rogue or warrior card does the war table missions? I mean really does it matter? No.

 

[bystander36]

Isn't that what leaders do? They send people to do this and that, read a few things, or have people tell you what something says, then respond.

I don't disagree that you don't make a lot of meaningful choices, but it definitely puts you in what appears like a leadership role.

 

[cytoSiN]

Maybe I'm doing it wrong...I liked the planet search in ME3 (I would have played a flash game of JUST that if it existed) and the war room in DA:I. They're fun minigames that tell interesting mini stories. The only problem I have with the war room is that it's a pain in the ass to get to it and the load times are just stupid, even when they're fast using an SSD, it's still annoying to wait for the load screen and animation. I'd prefer the table was next to the throne, with no animations.

 

[frozentundra123456]

They do let you recruit other armies. Starting with the choice between templars and mages, and even to a lesser degree dwarves. That isn't to say they were part of any important battles that you see.

Spoiler

I only recall them in 2. The Adamant and elven relic battles.

The battles were done with the idea that you were the commander of those particular battles and your armies did other stuff while you did your stuff.

I cant remember, but wasnt it in DA:O or awakenings, just before the final battle, while fighting through the city, you could call armies to assist you, dwarves or elves or whatever, depending on who you recruited? They actually fought right along side you. This gave me the feeling of being a leader, in contrast to just standing in front of a table and watching animations.