Dr. Paul won the U.S. VI

[Fern]

-snip-
I've been working then numbers out as I see them, and up until now - the MSM has been dividing out delegates based on % of popular vote won. Which obviously, it doesn't work that way.

I admit I'm no expert on the states' rules.

But I have seen the MSM explain how they arrive at their delegate count and it is not always merely from the popular vote. In fact, they go into the rules about it being county-by-county sometimes, actually explaining why the popular vote can be misleading in terms of delegates won.

Surely, someone is responsible for maintaining the 'official' count? I'm guessing the RNC?

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

Try reading posts first - this has already been addressed. NYTimes is contradicting the official VI Gop website. So if they're not getting it from the VI GOP, where are they getting it from? (I'm not sure but I think I may have read that the tallies were different awhile ago, maybe the NYTimes #'s are just outdated.)


Also, my reference to how the MSM is dividing delegates based on % of poll applies to the NY Times as well. As we all know, that isn't how delegates are actually given, thus, the NY Times numbers are not even close to being correct.


I thought this was the Politics forum? When are you guys going to get full from eating all the medias bullsh*t. Lot of endless stomachs in here.

Edit: Just to further clarify since I'm certain some of you will refute what I'm saying till the end, go to your valued NYTime delegate count which Londo was so kind to post. Go to the details on the right, click it, now what does it say? They say because delegate counts are non-binding the A.P. has given the total based on vote totals. Now go back and read what I just said about dividing out delegates in this manor.

Just the fact that Paul officially won all delegates in Denver shows how little they try - he has 0 under Colorado. Paul 5 while Romney 14 in Nevada? Once again, read the story I posted from attendants in Clark County - Paul won a landslide in the largest county in Nevada.

How is this not getting through? The media are not liars but they are manipulative just like a politician - they bend and twist their words till they are on the brink of the definition, but do not cross it - they still achieve their purpose and the general public gulps it all down without doing any research whatsoever.

I don't condemn you for having your own candidate choice, but I would hope we all would agree everyone deserves an equal opportunity without manipulation. It's sad, most Paul supporters would get very angry if they did this to anyone, Romney, Santorum, Gingritch. Yet it happens to Paul and the rest of you turn your back.

Ron Paul didn't officially win any delegates in Colorado, no one has. The delegates are not required to support anyone, and I will bet right here and right now that exactly zero of Colorado's delegates vote for Ron Paul at the Republican Convention.

Zero.

 

[fskimospy]

I admit I'm no expert on the states' rules.

But I have seen the MSM explain how they arrive at their delegate count and it is not always merely from the popular vote. In fact, they go into the rules about it being county-by-county sometimes, actually explaining why the popular vote can be misleading in terms of delegates won.

Surely, someone is responsible for maintaining the 'official' count? I'm guessing the RNC?

Fern

There is no official count because many of even the delegates that have been 'awarded' so far aren't actually bound to vote for the person they were awarded to. All we have are ballpark numbers that can shift a lot. If you actually go back and check the amount of delegates that Mitt Romney will get at the convention you will be amazed at what a huge proportion he gets even in the first round of voting despite this being a 'close' primary.

 

[schneiderguy]

Honestly Ron whats his name is seriously Israel's worse nightmare....

fixed


No intentional misquoting as a means of insults.

Administrator Idontcare

 

[Nemesis 1]

If your implication is that Ron Paul would have won actual U.S. states without "fraud," you're wrong. He is exactly as relevant as a candidate as the US Virgin Islands are to the overall electoral process. More critically, the entire premise of your thread is wrong - Romney won the Virgin Islands, not Ron Paul, and it wasn't close. Romney picked up seven delegates to Paul's one.

Actually Paul Won The popular vote . Romney got more delegates . In the State of Maine Paul won the delegates but not the caucus vote according to MSN. See how it works Paul Wins Vote so is second because less delagates . So Romney announced winner. But If Paul wins delegates . Than the Caucus vote determines winner . LOL Its so like most members here in this forum. I can tell ya for fact Ron Paul has more delegates at precinct level than Rickey does in MN . It is these delegates that vote on other delegates . The State GOP will try to control the vote but Paul delegates are in control . As they are working together to stop The GOP from any further Election fraud . Which has taken place in every caucus state so far in this GOP nomination.

 

[Fern]

There is no official count because many of even the delegates that have been 'awarded' so far aren't actually bound to vote for the person they were awarded to. All we have are ballpark numbers that can shift a lot. If you actually go back and check the amount of delegates that Mitt Romney will get at the convention you will be amazed at what a huge proportion he gets even in the first round of voting despite this being a 'close' primary.

Honest question:

Don't you suppose someone in a national position of authority for the party is surveying these delegates to get an idea on whom they will support at the convention? Of course, the convention vote is what makes it official.

I find it inconceivable that the Repubs would design a process that is all but guaranteed to result in only determining the nominee once at the convention. Most who follow politics are aware they cannot wait until September to begin campaigning Obama.

Fern

 

[Nemesis 1]

My thoughts are that you keep pulling at very small straws in an effort to try and figure out why your candidate isn't popular with most people. If this 'election fraud/voter fraud' crap had any real merit someone somewhere would actually report on it, and not those crazy one sided websites so blinded in their lustful love of this cooky old man they can't see reality.

It has been reported by mainstream in most states

 

[DrPizza]

*sigh*

The VI vote was for delegates - they were voting for delegates, not GOP candidates.

April Newland 41 (27 STX, 14 STT) Romney
Gwendolyn Brady 37 (34 STX, 3 STT) Uncommitted
Warren Bruce Cole 31 (28 STX, 3 STT) Uncommitted (Pledged to Romney after the vote totals)
John A. Clendenin 31 (25 STX, 6 STT) Romney
Robert Max Schanfarber 29 (11 STX, 18 STT) Paul
Luis R. Martinez 29 (26 STX, 3 STT) Romney

Those are the top 6. Note: the number of votes are the votes for the delegate, NOT votes for a candidate. See those top 6?

It's the DELEGATES who are selected in this election.



I'd be nice if Ron Paul fans could learn to read and analyze what they're reading before they start making ridiculous accusations of fraud. The Paul supporters seem to be the most vociferous about fraud. Yet every scientifically conducted poll mirrors the elections (not including internet polls where Paul supporters click "vote" repeatedly.) Although, even here, he did poorly.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Sorry for our reading comprehension.

http://www.whnt.com/news/whnt-ron-p...-gets-most-delegates-20120311,0,2341164.story

 

[Nemesis 1]

I'd be nice if Ron Paul fans could learn to read and analyze what they're reading before they start making ridiculous accusations of fraud. The Paul supporters seem to be the most vociferous about fraud. Yet every scientifically conducted poll mirrors the elections (not including internet polls where Paul supporters click "vote" repeatedly.) Although, even here, he did poorly.

Here is just 1 report of many many reports .
http://digitaljournal.com/article/320658

 

[DrPizza]

Here is just 1 report of many many reports .
http://digitaljournal.com/article/320658

Are you claiming that the robo-callers magically knew who was going to vote for Paul?

 

[DrPizza]

Sorry for our reading comprehension.

http://www.whnt.com/news/whnt-ron-p...-gets-most-delegates-20120311,0,2341164.story

Voters in the Virgin Islands cast up to 6 votes directly for *delegates*, not for Romney or Paul (or anyone else.)

Saturday 10 March 2012: Territorial Caucuses meet from noon to 6pm Atlantic Standard Time on St. Croix, St. Thomas, and St. John as a Convention to choose 6 delegates to the Republican National Convention. [Rule 2]

• Delegate candidates must file by 10 February 2012. Candidates may run as pledged to a candidate or uncommitted. Each candidate's Presidential Preference appears on the ballot.
• Delegates are directly elected by the voters and each voter may choose up to 6 delegates. The top 6 vote getters will attend the National Convention.

In addition, 3 party leaders, the National Committeeman, the National Committeewoman, and the chairman of the Virgin Islands's Republican Party, will attend the convention as unpledged delegates by virtue of their position.
Candidates that declare as being pledged shall ... have promised, if elected, to vote for such declared candidate for the Republican nomination for President of the United States on the first ballot of the Republican National Convention. Delegate Candidates who have so declared, but whose declared candidate for the Republican nomination has withdrawn his or her candidacy prior to the Caucus Date shall be deemed uncommitted.

 

[Anarchist420]

Voters in the Virgin Islands cast up to 6 votes directly for *delegates*, not for Romney or Paul (or anyone else.)

Okay, I'll grant you part of that. The GOP rules did not award delegates proportionally to popular vote. However, that does not change the fact that he was the choice of more Virgin Islanders than Mittens was.

I am beginning to wonder why Dr. Paul ran for the Republican nomination instead of as an independent. He'd probably win at least a 40% plurality of the national popular vote if it was between himself and the twin shitheads Romney and Obama.

Romney pisses me off so much because he has no business planning to run against a man with nearly the exact same policies as himself. I'm not going to be able to get over until I die, especially since Obamney is going to destroy society. I don't want to be around when hyperinflation kicks in or when an attack is executed, directly or indirectly, by the U.S. govt against Americans as an excuse for more war.

 

[fskimospy]

Okay, I'll grant you part of that. The GOP rules did not award delegates proportionally to popular vote. However, that does not change the fact that he was the choice of more Virgin Islanders than Mittens was.

I am beginning to wonder why Dr. Paul ran for the Republican nomination instead of as an independent. He'd probably win at least a 40% plurality of the national popular vote if it was between himself and the twin shitheads Romney and Obama.

Romney pisses me off so much because he has no business planning to run against a man with nearly the exact same policies as himself. I'm not going to be able to get over until I die, especially since Obamney is going to destroy society. I don't want to be around when hyperinflation kicks in or when an attack is executed, directly or indirectly, by the U.S. govt against Americans as an excuse for more war.

I thought you were against the popular vote anyway?

 

[EagleKeeper]

I thought you were against the popular vote anyway?

Only when it favors his view points.:thumbsdown:

 

[Nemesis 1]

Okay, I'll grant you part of that. The GOP rules did not award delegates proportionally to popular vote. However, that does not change the fact that he was the choice of more Virgin Islanders than Mittens was.

I am beginning to wonder why Dr. Paul ran for the Republican nomination instead of as an independent. He'd probably win at least a 40% plurality of the national popular vote if it was between himself and the twin shitheads Romney and Obama.

Romney pisses me off so much because he has no business planning to run against a man with nearly the exact same policies as himself. I'm not going to be able to get over until I die, especially since Obamney is going to destroy society. I don't want to be around when hyperinflation kicks in or when an attack is executed, directly or indirectly, by the U.S. govt against Americans as an excuse for more war.

I can't prove Obama a muslim its my personnal belief he is tho. but none can prove he is not . Barry is a citizen of indonsia . Find out what indonisian law says about citizenship.
Its no mystery. Ron will try to take his delegates to the convention floor. Ron only needs to speak at the convention . Were he
Will announce he WILL not support any Rep up for ythe nomination . Than he will ask all Paul delegates committed or not to leave the convention flooor as he will run as independent Romney or Obummer ? No differance. One is mormon the other moslem. So If we have to choose . Better 4 more years obummer than 8 years Romney . But since there will be no 2012 election its doesn't matter .

 

[Anarchist420]

I thought you were against the popular vote anyway?

If it helps get a libertarian elected then I'm for it. I justify breaking my own rules because whatever achieves liberty without breaking the NAP is most ethical.

I'm actually beginning to rethink the popular vote anyway, since the only time it favored less statism over more statism was in Y2K. You've got Jefferson getting the highest popular vote margins ever both times he ran, then you've got Jackson over Adams 6, then the Democrats over Lincoln, then Tilden over Hayes, then Cleveland over Ben Harrison, then Harding getting greater than 3/5 of the popular vote. I also believe that the Articles of Confederation USA was more popular among the people than the U.S. Federal Constitution was.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Its no mystery. Ron will try to take his delegates to the convention floor. Ron only needs to speak at the convention . Were he
Will announce he WILL not support any Rep up for ythe nomination . Than he will ask all Paul delegates committed or not to leave the convention flooor as he will run as independent Romney or Obummer ? No differance. One is mormon the other moslem. So If we have to choose . Better 4 more years obummer than 8 years Romney . But since there will be no 2012 election its doesn't matter .

Thank you for succinctly summing up why Ron Paul and his supporters are not taken seriously. There is not a single sentence in this post that makes sense to any sane human being.

 

[Nemesis 1]

He will win as an independent . All obama has left is a small base . But he now has all the power a king has . Look at Romney rallies not many supporters . Look at Ricks rallies even fewer supporters . Look at Paul rallies he packs them in everywere he goes . Paul wins as independent . If there were an election that is honest . But that won't happen in evil america. Because sheepos eat up the shit there told to swallow. Everyvote that paul doesn't get is a vote from some socialist pig intent on destroying america.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x3uDxaOcAE

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

He will win as an independent . All obama has left is a small base . But he now has all the power a king has . Look at Romney rallies not many supporters . Look at Ricks rallies even fewer supporters . Look at Paul rallies he packs them in everywere he goes . Paul wins as independent . If there were an election that is honest . But that won't happen in evil america. Because sheepos eat up the shit there told to swallow. Everyvote that paul doesn't get is a vote from some socialist pig intent on destroying america.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x3uDxaOcAE

Your grasp of reality is worse than your punctuation and grammar, and that's saying something.

For what it's worth I agree Ron Paul should probably run as an independent - he is very old and this is realistically his last shot to run for President. If he doesn't it will be a clear signal that he cares more about maintaining his personal status and power in the GOP than he does about what he says are his ideals. We shall see . . .

 

[EagleKeeper]

Its no mystery. Ron will try to take his delegates to the convention floor. Ron only needs to speak at the convention . Were he
Will announce he WILL not support any Rep up for ythe nomination . Than he will ask all Paul delegates committed or not to leave the convention flooor as he will run as independent Romney or Obummer ? No differance. One is mormon the other moslem. So If we have to choose . Better 4 more years obummer than 8 years Romney . But since there will be no 2012 election its doesn't matter .

You have no proof that Obama is a Muslim. Implying so is a good way to be sanctioned.

 

[fskimospy]

Your grasp of reality is worse than your punctuation and grammar, and that's saying something.

For what it's worth I agree Ron Paul should probably run as an independent - he is very old and this is realistically his last shot to run for President. If he doesn't it will be a clear signal that he cares more about maintaining his personal status and power in the GOP than he does about what he says are his ideals. We shall see . . .

Ron Paul almost never attacks Mitt Romney despite 'ol Mitt being the frontrunner and the most ideologically opposed candidate. I think that tells you everything you need to know.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Whoopty shit. No one should be crowing about winning the popular vote in a tiny territory where residents cannot vote in the Presidential election.

I give it a .5/10 on The Apologist Scale. Paul's campaign is flying like a fart in church. Just deal with it and move on with your life.

I'm so glad I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read this.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Ron Paul almost never attacks Mitt Romney despite 'ol Mitt being the frontrunner and the most ideologically opposed candidate. I think that tells you everything you need to know.

This

 

[DrPizza]

Okay, I'll grant you part of that. The GOP rules did not award delegates proportionally to popular vote. However, that does not change the fact that he was the choice of more Virgin Islanders than Mittens was.

*facepalm*

"He" was not the choice of more Virgin Islanders. They voted for delegates, NOT for who was going to be the GOP nominee. Romney wasn't a choice, Ron Paul wasn't a choice. They chose 6 delegates, period.

April Newland 41 (27 STX, 14 STT) Romney
Gwendolyn Brady 37 (34 STX, 3 STT) Uncommitted
Warren Bruce Cole 31 (28 STX, 3 STT) Uncommitted (Pledged to Romney after the vote totals)
John A. Clendenin 31 (25 STX, 6 STT) Romney
Luis R. Martinez 29 (26 STX, 3 STT) Romney
Robert Max Schanfarber 29 (11 STX, 18 STT) Paul
Joshua A. Schanfarber 21 (5 STX, 16 STT) Paul
Humberto O’Neal 19 (19 STX, 1 STT) Uncommitted
Geoffrey Wolfe 18 (5 STX, 13 STT) Paul
George Blackhall 16 (8, STX, 8 STT) Uncommitted
Dwain E. Ford 15 (12 STX, 3 STT) Gingrich
Vince Danet 15 (10 STX, 5 STT) Santorum
Roseann Wells 15 (2 STX, 13 STT) Paul
Michael Wilson 15 (2 STX, 13 STT) Paul
Eddie Jane Simmons 14 (1 STX, 13 STT) Paul
Kimberly Lynn Jones 11 (10 STX, 1 STT) Uncommitted
DeWayne Bridges 8 (3 STX, 5 STT) Santorum
James Bland 4 (4 STX, 0 STT) Uncommitted
Dennis Best 4 (1 STX, 3 STT) Uncommitted
Patrick Witcher 4 (0 STX, 4 STT)Uncommitted
Steve Mitchum 4 (0 STX, 4 STT) Uncommitted
Steven Hardy 3 (0 STX, 3 STT) Gingrich

Now, each person voting got to vote for 6 different delegates. Note: at the time of the voting, only THREE had pledged support for Romney. Also note: those three were among the five with the most votes (though I note that there was a tie in 5th place.) Now, I hate to deflate your little bubble, but since there were only 3 with support pledged to Romney, the people "voting for Romney" in your mind likely also cast 3 votes for delegates pledged to Ron Paul.


If people were voting strictly by who candidates had pledged their support for, then how do you explain that 2 of the candidates who hadn't publicly pledged support for a particular candidate finished in the top 5?

And lastly, before I said something, I kept trying to figure out how I was interpreting this vote incorrectly. But, it seems that those numbers are the actual numbers of votes. Remember, each person casts up to 6 votes. Thus, in addition to the 22 delegates who likely voted (for themselves and 5 others), there were LESS THAN 30 PEOPLE who actually went to the polls. In other words, who gives a shit. It's a tiny, tiny, tiny sample size.

I'll give you this though: it appears that there was a difference based on which Island the person was voting on. It appears that the Ron Paul delegates were on St Thomas, and the Romney delegates were on St Croix. Virtually all of the voting can be explained this way: "hey, 20 of my friends, can you vote for me? If I win, I get an all expenses paid trip to the national convention."