Dr. Finkelstein - Child of Holocaust Deceased Speaks about Palestinians

[wwswimming]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AUjWzrGZXo&feature=player_embedded

Finkelstein has just given a speech about the Palestinians.

A young woman gets really upset and asks him a question. It is live drama, she is crying.

People start yelling. When the audience quiets, he explains about why he compares what Israel has done to the Palestinians, to what Hitler did to the Jews.

If you want to understand part of the situation (it doesn't explain the entire history, the destruction of 400 villages by Israel in 1948), a worthwhile 5 minute video.

 

[Zebo]

You're on the wrong side of this issue like I once was until I studied it thoroughly. May I suggest you countenance your views with x-plo terrorists like Zachariah Anani or Walid Shoebat rather than Americans who happen to be jewish? It's amazing how well re-defining small vs. big has worked so well for western consumption with our inherit underdog worship.

 

[Craig234]

I like him. Not any substance there, but it's good he not let the discussion be ranting rhetoric.

This clip was next to that, with a bit more issue discussion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xT3lq-Zbso&NR=1

How ironic is it that the great character of some Jews lies in criticizing the lack of character in areas with Israel and fighting off wrongful defenses of Israel?

 

[Craig234]

You're on the wrong side of this issue like I once was until I studied it thoroughly. May I suggest you countenance your views with x-plo terrorists like Zachariah Anani or Walid Shoebat rather than Americans who happen to be jewish? It's amazing how well re-defining small vs. big has worked so well for western consumption with our inherit underdog worship.

Sorry, but you aren't going to convince me the terrorism agaubst Gaza civilians mentioned in the UN report, the illegal settlemants, are justified, however much you find on the problems with the Palestenians.

 

[wwswimming]

You're on the wrong side of this issue like I once was until I studied it thoroughly. May I suggest you countenance your views with x-plo terrorists like Zachariah Anani or Walid Shoebat rather than Americans who happen to be jewish? It's amazing how well re-defining small vs. big has worked so well for western consumption with our inherit underdog worship.

no one denies the existence of, for example, the terrorists that killed the Israeli athletes at Munich 1972.

what is interesting is that most supporters of Israeli terrorism completely deny false flag terror incidents that were performed by Israeli's. Specifically -

The Lavon Affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

The Attack on the King David Hotel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

The Attack on the USS Liberty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

(Note - Jimmy Wales, founder of Wikipedia, is Jewish.)

We could also consider other Israeli terror groups, such as the Irgun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

and the Stern Gang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

In other words, terrorism is LARGELY AN ISRAELI CONSTRUCT. it was used by the Irgun and the Stern Gang long before Israel was established as a state (1935 to 1948). Then Israel was caught with their "hand in the terrorist cookie jar" AGAIN, in the cases of the 3 false flag incidents cited above, 2 of which occurred after 1948.

And of course, most Israeli supporters say nothing about Al Nakba, as archived at
http://www.palestineremembered.com/
... the destruction of 400 villages by Israel in 1948, the murder of the civilian occupants of those villages, the conversion of approximately 700,000 Palestinians from "employed farmer" status to "refugee" status.

Finally, paradoxically, Israeli supporters cheer the scene in the Tarantino movie where Brad Pitt pitt plays a Jewish man who fights back against the Nazi's.

Getting back to Finkelstein, he compares the actions of the Nazi's, putting the Jews in concentration camps, with the actions of the Israeli's, putting the Palestinians in concentration camps.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Yea, only that Jews never taken part in terror acts against the Germans before the latter put the former in ghettos. The only way to get sympathy for Hamas fanboys such as yourself is to portray the Jews as the aggressors. Now, that in itself is pretty tough when the side you're cheering basically invented the use of suicide bombings directly aimed at civilians. So what do you do? raise the stake and directly compare Israel to the Nazis! LOL.

It's laughable, especially when you consider whatever Israel did to the Palestinians is nothing compared to what Jordan did to them on Black September, for example. Yet this fact has been forgotten somewhere in history.

I'd give the Palestinians some sympathy if I knew they are not after the entire Israeli land. Unfortunately they are, and Israel apparently isn't going anywhere, so no sympathy from me.

Finkelstein is far left, the fact he's a Jew doesn't make his point more valid or himself less stupid. There are a bunch of self-hating Jews around the world, it's been always like that - mostly revisionist historians.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yea, only that Jews never taken part in terror acts against the Germans before the latter put the former in ghettos. The only way to get sympathy for Hamas fanboys such as yourself is to portray the Jews as the aggressors. Now, that in itself is pretty tough when the side you're cheering basically invented the use of suicide bombings directly aimed at civilians. So what do you do? raise the stake and directly compare Israel to the Nazis! LOL.

It's laughable, especially when you consider whatever Israel did to the Palestinians is nothing compared to what Jordan did to them on Black September, for example. Yet this fact has been forgotten somewhere in history.

I'd give the Palestinians some sympathy if I knew they are not after the entire Israeli land. Unfortunately they are, and Israel apparently isn't going anywhere, so no sympathy from me.

Finkelstein is far left, the fact he's a Jew doesn't make his point more valid or himself less stupid. There are a bunch of self-hating Jews around the world, it's been always like that - mostly revisionist historians.

Heh. Who wants what land? Let us deal with deeds rather than words. Explain this-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2008/sep/11/israelandthepalestinians

 

[SamurAchzar]

Heh. Who wants what land? Let us deal with deeds rather than words. Explain this-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2008/sep/11/israelandthepalestinians

Nothing needs explaining. Only a complete idiot would expect Israel to retreat of ANY land after the fiasco that has been in Gaza following the disengagement.

Personally, I think the settlements are foolish as this area WILL be given away in the future; the problem though is not the Palestinian opinion - which counts for nothing, after Gaza and the PA incompetence - the longer Israel maintains settlements there, the more difficult and expensive would tearing that down be. But that's an entirely domestic Israeli affair.

 

[Rainsford]

The problem with this conflict is that virtually everyone judges it by the actions of a relatively tiny group of people on each side. If you are someone like SamurAchzar, you judge the entire Palestinian side by the actions of Hamas. If you are a lot of other people, you judge all of Israel by a few negative things the IDF has done.

The fact is that the VAST majority of people on both sides don't fit the convenient stereotypes everyone would like them to.

 

[Ozoned]

Heh. Who wants what land? Let us deal with deeds rather than words. Explain this-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2008/sep/11/israelandthepalestinians

Heh. The liberals in our own country call this incrementalism. Slow and steady progress towards the goal so nobody notices.

It's working.....

 

[Genx87]

I guess without knowing what he actually said the clip is rather pointless. Is he saying Israel is conducting a war of racial purity against the Palastinians?

 

[SamurAchzar]

The problem with this conflict is that virtually everyone judges it by the actions of a relatively tiny group of people on each side. If you are someone like SamurAchzar, you judge the entire Palestinian side by the actions of Hamas. If you are a lot of other people, you judge all of Israel by a few negative things the IDF has done.

The fact is that the VAST majority of people on both sides don't fit the convenient stereotypes everyone would like them to.

Why do you think Hamas does not represent the widespread Palestinian stance - either in the Palestinian territories or abroad?

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Why does so much political discussion revolve around ~10-15 million people tucked into a tiny little desert in the middle of nowhere.

0.0025% of the Earth's population really doesn't merit such an overabundance of exposure.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Why does so much political discussion revolve around ~10-15 million people tucked into a tiny little desert in the middle of nowhere.

0.0025% of the Earth's population really doesn't merit such an overabundance of exposure.

Because it's the apex point of a clash between civilization. Muslims kill other muslims every day in masses, and no one gives a fuck.

It's the same reason naked chicks mud wrestling would get higher ratings than a bar brawl, despite having much less human flesh involved.

 

[Jhhnn]

Nothing needs explaining. Only a complete idiot would expect Israel to retreat of ANY land after the fiasco that has been in Gaza following the disengagement.

Heh. Expropriation has been Israeli policy from the beginning, and we both know it. Disengagement wrt Gaza is very recent, while the ongoing impoverishment of the Palestinians has been happening for 60 years. No amount of canned rhetoric, deflection, diversion or denial can change that. Gaza is now the most densely populated place on earth, the largest concentration camp the world has ever seen. Meanwhile, the slow motion Israeli version of Lebensraum grinds on relentlessly in the West Bank- one lot, one field, one hill, one well, one grove of trees at a time, until what? Until some "Final Solution" is contrived for the Palestinians?

 

[SamurAchzar]

Heh. Expropriation has been Israeli policy from the beginning, and we both know it. Disengagement wrt Gaza is very recent, while the ongoing impoverishment of the Palestinians has been happening for 60 years. No amount of canned rhetoric, deflection, diversion or denial can change that. Gaza is now the most densely populated place on earth, the largest concentration camp the world has ever seen. Meanwhile, the slow motion Israeli version of Lebensraum grinds on relentlessly in the West Bank- one lot, one field, one hill, one well, one grove of trees at a time, until what? Until some "Final Solution" is contrived for the Palestinians?

You, me and Nethanyahu all know this area will never be Israeli. The entire idea behind every Israeli government in the last 15 years was to find a way to separate from the Palestinians, not embrace them into Israel. The question is that of a price tag, nothing more or nothing less.

Israelis are essentially taking a high interest loan here - they agree to spend huge money now, and later in reimbursement to evacuated settlers, just to avoid confronting the far right, but they also feel that helps their initial point for an agreement with the Palestinian down the line.
Israel, as an entity, has no business there and does not want this area. But there are no better alternatives atm.

 

[Jhhnn]

As I offered earlier- Deeds, not words determine the truth, and the deeds of the Israeli govt render your words either delusional thinking or mealy mouthed lies.

I'll offer the benefit of the doubt, include you in the former category. It's extremely useful to have people who believe in lies promulgate them, rather than the actual perpetrators, because believers are, well, more believable...

The Israeli settler faction controls policy wrt the Palestinians, and will continue to do so just so long as the rest of Israel benefits, doesn't have to deal with it, and the govt keeps the Pals isolated, out of sight, out of mind. Settlers covet what little the Pals still have, and will relentlessly seek to take it as their own, offering only temporary respite when the situation demands it. They're on a mission from God, after all...

 

[SamurAchzar]

As I offered earlier- Deeds, not words determine the truth, and the deeds of the Israeli govt render your words either delusional thinking or mealy mouthed lies.

I'll offer the benefit of the doubt, include you in the former category. It's extremely useful to have people who believe in lies promulgate them, rather than the actual perpetrators, because believers are, well, more believable...

The Israeli settler faction controls policy wrt the Palestinians, and will continue to do so just so long as the rest of Israel benefits, doesn't have to deal with it, and the govt keeps the Pals isolated, out of sight, out of mind. Settlers covet what little the Pals still have, and will relentlessly seek to take it as their own, offering only temporary respite when the situation demands it. They're on a mission from God, after all...

It's probably very convenient for you to portray Israel as right wing extremists, but the reality shows there was an overwhelming majority in Israel to the concept of disengagement (as the sweeping win of Kadima in the previous Israeli election shows). The settlers control exactly nothing, but it is a hassle the government would rather not confront at the moment.

Israel simply has no interest in doing any kind of gesture or deed towards the Palestinians at this point in time, for various reasons. It's can't be ideological, as Israeli governments offered more than 95% of the West Bank as well as Eastern Jerusalem to the Palestinians before.

The moment Israel has something to gain by driving these settlers away, they'll be gone in 24 hours. And it will happen, it's just a matter of time and circumstances.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's probably very convenient for you to portray Israel as right wing extremists, but the reality shows there was an overwhelming majority in Israel to the concept of disengagement (as the sweeping win of Kadima in the previous Israeli election shows). The settlers control exactly nothing, but it is a hassle the government would rather not confront at the moment.

Israel simply has no interest in doing any kind of gesture or deed towards the Palestinians at this point in time, for various reasons. It's can't be ideological, as Israeli governments offered more than 95% of the West Bank as well as Eastern Jerusalem to the Palestinians before.

The moment Israel has something to gain by driving these settlers away, they'll be gone in 24 hours. And it will happen, it's just a matter of time and circumstances.

Mere words.

You even offer that Israel has no intention of actually doing anything, other than building on what was formerly Palestinian territory, tearing down anything the Pals build on what they still have. They'll continue to trade peace for territory, as they've done all along, make "offers" that serve propaganda purposes only. They have the upper hand, and can "disengage" at any time, yet never do, not really. Kadima has been in power since 2005, yet there has been no military disengagement at any time since Sharon exited the political scene.

You contradict yourself in the same breath, think nothing of it, much as the official Israeli line is for a two state resolution, even as they continue to do everything in their power to make that impossible.

 

[Craig234]

Why does so much political discussion revolve around ~10-15 million people tucked into a tiny little desert in the middle of nowhere.

0.0025% of the Earth's population really doesn't merit such an overabundance of exposure.

How about I put you into their condition and ask you if it matters? What an amoral slimy post.

 

[brownzilla786]

It's probably very convenient for you to portray Israel as right wing extremists, but the reality shows there was an overwhelming majority in Israel to the concept of disengagement (as the sweeping win of Kadima in the previous Israeli election shows). The settlers control exactly nothing, but it is a hassle the government would rather not confront at the moment.

Israel simply has no interest in doing any kind of gesture or deed towards the Palestinians at this point in time, for various reasons. It's can't be ideological, as Israeli governments offered more than 95% of the West Bank as well as Eastern Jerusalem to the Palestinians before.

The moment Israel has something to gain by driving these settlers away, they'll be gone in 24 hours. And it will happen, it's just a matter of time and circumstances.

I'm assuming your referring to the camp david peace talks with Ehud Barak, Clinton, and Arafat. If you saw the proposed map (although there is no official map because nothing was written down) you would see that the Palestinians were given land in different locations that would not be connected to each other, its lands would be surrounded by Israeli check points, and it's land would not be touching any other country except Israel's. 95% sounds great until you actually look at the map, it was a pretty bad deal, although it was the best deal the Palestinians have ever gotten from Israel.

I personally think that most of Israel is moderate, but the extremist settlers really are a loud minority, and they tend to ( if history is a reference ) swing political favors in there direction. You would know better than I would how the current political state of Israel is, but the extremists in Israel, in my opinion, make it impossible for Israel to go any further with peace talks.

 

[JEDIYoda]

So what does this guy being a child of Holocaust deceased have anything to do with anything??
Does this qualify him to speak on the subject any more that the fact that I also had relatives die in the holocaust??

I am very familair with Finkelsteins life and his "works of fiction".......

In fact it just goes to show that you can find somebody on the internet who agrees with you, no matter how misguided they are....

Peace!!