Down goes Hagee!!

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: Corbett
Took McCain a few days. Took Obama 20 years.

+1 for McCain.

Wrong because McCain denounced Hagee then sought his support then denounced him only after scrutiny.

-1 for McCain.

I believe this story just broke a few days ago. McCain sought Hagee's support well before this came to light. You lose.

You're kidding, right? Hagee's bigotry was/is well known. Remember the hurricane Katrina comments? Oh wait, given your stance in the gay marriage thread you probably agree.

 

[colonel]

Mc Cain has a big problem now, it all over the news network, I wonder what Hannity will preach tomorrow.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Coincidence that this happened the same day Obama began campaigning in Florida for general election support among Jews?

Is the Jewish community upset over Hagee's Hitler remarks?

Honest question, I haven't seen any thing about that yet. Have you?

They probably don't count me, but it didn't bother me when read in context. Hagee said "god let [the holocaust] happen". Which if you believe in god, he did. Be angry at god, not Hagee. At least not for this.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Coincidence that this happened the same day Obama began campaigning in Florida for general election support among Jews?

Is the Jewish community upset over Hagee's Hitler remarks?

Honest question, I haven't seen any thing about that yet. Have you?

They probably don't count me, but it didn't bother me when read in context. Hagee said "god let [the holocaust] happen". Which if you believe in god, he did. Be angry at god, not Hagee. At least not for this.

Then why are you so hypocritically blasting Obama and Wright? God put those words into Wright's mind and compelled him to speak them just as much as he controlled Hitler's thoughts and actions.

Also, allowing something to happen that you have the power to stop is controlling if that is going to be your argument.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Has yet to show up on the net, guess I will have to wait.

At least this will end all those stupid Hagee threads.

Why should it? You are still posting about Wright?

You still don't see the difference between going to someone's church for 20 years, having him preside over your marriage and inviting him to give the opening prayer at your Presidential campaign announcement and receiving a political endorsement from someone who you otherwise have little to no connection with?

rofl. Watching you rationalize is priceless entertainment.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: sirjonk

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Coincidence that this happened the same day Obama began campaigning in Florida for general election support among Jews?

Is the Jewish community upset over Hagee's Hitler remarks?

Honest question, I haven't seen any thing about that yet. Have you?

They probably don't count me, but it didn't bother me when read in context. Hagee said "god let [the holocaust] happen". Which if you believe in god, he did. Be angry at god, not Hagee. At least not for this.

Then why are you so hypocritically blasting Obama and Wright? God put those words into Wright's mind and compelled him to speak them just as much as he controlled Hitler's thoughts and actions.

Also, allowing something to happen that you have the power to stop is controlling if that is going to be your argument.

If you weren't openly and totally partisan for Obama I might entertain this discussion, but I haven't seen you once concede any point ever made against any of Obama's positions or negatives, so I'm not going to waste my time explaining anything to you now, especially when to everyone but you the distinction is blatantly obvious, as well as you completely distorting my statements.

And I don't believe in god, so maybe that is the source of your confusion.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Hagee has been spouting this stuff since the early 1990's. Its very well known and republican swiftboaters had to scour Wright's sermons for a few cherry picked statements. Only when Wright defended his right to set the record straight that triggered the Obama rejection.

Overall score

Obama -1
McCain -1

You mean like how liberals scoured through Hagee's sermon to find only one snippet from one of the biggest Israel supporters in the United States?

One snippet?

Have you bothered to read his comments that have been posted in this very thread?

Her, lookey at the Wiki.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Robor
You're kidding, right? Hagee's bigotry was/is well known. Remember the hurricane Katrina comments? Oh wait, given your stance in the gay marriage thread you probably agree.

Not my fault you are so shot sighted you cant see the difference between believe gays should not marry and believing they caused a hurricane. I'd expressed plenty of times that I didnt agree with his statements, or him half the time. But nice way of distracting from the actuall argument.

 

[Craig234]

I'm glad to see the right thing done, finally, and if anything, the fact McCain did not do it sooner makes it more significant.

I could discuss the negatives for McCain:

- The hypocrisy of his condemning these people but then pursuing them and embracing them for political expedience.

- The support of bigotry implied by McCain by his earlier only condemning the anti-Catholic (big group) comments but not the anti-gay and others.

- His 'lie by omission' in announcing Hagee's endorsement that made it look unsolicited, exposed when Hagee's people said McCain had approached them.

- McCain doing the less honorable, more political choice every step of the way - pursuing the endorsement at all, announcing it without revealing it was pursued, not repudiating any of Hagee's statements at first, and when press reports increased only repudiating the catholic ones, and then only repudiating Hagee's endorsement when the political price became too high.

Obama wasn't 'perfect' either, he responded to the press and political pressure, but at least when he did, he did so more clearly and far more eloquently, with a great speech on race. McCain could have used this opportunity to speak out against the problem of people like Hagee much as Obama spoke out against problems on both sides with race politics, but of course, McCain did not.

But, instead, I'm going to say the thing I'm interested in now in this story is that it's a positive that the repudiation happened at all, rather than leaving the endorsement in place. That's a breath of fresh air for these misguided groups to get any repudiation for the views that are very problematic, and I compliment McCain for doing it.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Overall score

Obama -1
McCain -1

False. McCain's score is much worse. His adventure with Hagee was not his first venture into the evangelical ozone.

Rev. Rod Parley, the man McCain has called his "spiritual guide," advocates that Christians should rise up to destroy Islam.

McCain's Spiritual Guide: Destroy Islam

Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it.

On February 26, McCain appeared at a campaign rally in Cincinnati with the Reverend Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church of Columbus, a supersize Pentecostal institution that features a 5,200-seat sanctuary, a television studio (where Parsley tapes a weekly show), and a 122,000-square-foot Ministry Activity Center. That day, a week before the Ohio primary, Parsley praised the Republican presidential front-runner as a "strong, true, consistent conservative." The endorsement was important for McCain, who at the time was trying to put an end to the lingering challenge from former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, a favorite among Christian evangelicals. A politically influential figure in Ohio, Parsley could also play a key role in McCain's effort to win this bellwether state in the general election. McCain, with Parsley by his side at the Cincinnati rally, called the evangelical minister a "spiritual guide."

The leader of a 12,000-member congregation, Parsley has written several books outlining his fundamentalist religious outlook, including the 2005 Silent No More. In this work, Parsley decries the "spiritual desperation" of the United States, and he blasts away at the usual suspects: activist judges, civil libertarians who advocate the separation of church and state, the homosexual "culture" ("homosexuals are anything but happy and carefree"), the "abortion industry," and the crass and profane entertainment industry. And Parsley targets another profound threat to the United States: the religion of Islam.

In a chapter titled "Islam: The Deception of Allah," Parsley warns there is a "war between Islam and Christian civilization." He continues:

• I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is. In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore.

Parsley is not shy about his desire to obliterate Islam. In Silent No More, he notes?approvingly?that Christopher Columbus shared the same goal: "It was to defeat Islam, among other dreams, that Christopher Columbus sailed to the New World in 1492?Columbus dreamed of defeating the armies of Islam with the armies of Europe made mighty by the wealth of the New World. It was this dream that, in part, began America." He urges his readers to realize that a confrontation between Christianity and Islam is unavoidable: "We find now we have no choice. The time has come." And he has bad news: "We may already be losing the battle. As I scan the world, I find that Islam is responsible for more pain, more bloodshed, and more devastation than nearly any other force on earth at this moment."

Parsley claims that Islam is an "anti-Christ religion" predicated on "deception." The Muslim prophet Muhammad, he writes, "received revelations from demons and not from the true God." And he emphasizes this point: "Allah was a demon spirit." Parsley does not differentiate between violent Islamic extremists and other followers of the religion:

• There are some, of course, who will say that the violence I cite is the exception and not the rule. I beg to differ. I will counter, respectfully, that what some call "extremists" are instead mainstream believers who are drawing from the well at the very heart of Islam.

The spirit of Islam, he maintains, is one of hostility. He asserts that the religion "inspired" the 9/11 attacks. He bemoans the fact that in the years after 9/11, 34,000 Americans "have become Muslim" and that there are "some 1,209 mosques" in America. Islam, he declares, is a "faith that fully intends to conquer the world" through violence. The United States, he insists, "has historically understood herself as a bastion against Islam," but "history is crashing in upon us."

At the end of his chapter on Islam, Parsley asks, "Are we a Christian nation? I say yes." Without specifying what actions should be taken to eradicate the religion, he essentially calls for a new crusade.

Parsley, who refers to himself as a "Christocrat," is no stranger to controversy. In 2007, the grassroots organization he founded, the Center for Moral Clarity, called for prosecuting people who commit adultery. In January, he compared Planned Parenthood to Nazis. In the past Parsley's church has been accused of engaging in pro-Republican partisan activities in violation of its tax-exempt status.
The spirit of Islam, he maintains, is one of hostility. He asserts that the religion "inspired" the 9/11 attacks. He bemoans the fact that in the years after 9/11, 34,000 Americans "have become Muslim" and that there are "some 1,209 mosques" in America. Islam, he declares, is a "faith that fully intends to conquer the world" through violence. The United States, he insists, "has historically understood herself as a bastion against Islam," but "history is crashing in upon us."

McCain?s appeared withJerry Falwell at Liberty University on May 13th, 2006.

LYNCHBURG, Va., May 13 ? With the Rev. Jerry Falwell at his side, Senator John McCain offered a spirited defense of the Iraq war on Saturday, telling graduating students at Liberty University that victory there was crucial to world security. But Mr. McCain urged opponents of the war to vigorously "state their opposition" in the interest of critical debate on this increasingly unpopular conflict.

If you're known by the company you keep, McSame's doing a fine job of picking embarrasing malicious, mindless fundie bigots. If he thinks he can continually pimp himself to their flocks, sooner or later, one has to assume he agrees with what they believe, or he's a lying hypocrite. Either way, it makes him worthless as a President.

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Overall score

Obama -1
McCain -1

False. McCain's score is much higher. His adventure with Hagee was not his first venture into the evangelical ozone.

shouldn't that read much lower?

 

[Craig234]

One thing that catches my eye on McCain here is the issue of his poor speaking, especially compared to Obama.

Here's McCain in April on the endorsement of Hagee:

"I'm glad to have his endorsement. I condemn remarks that are, in any way, viewed as anti-anything."

Huh? Could there be a more Bush-like, mealy-mouthed bit of gurgling?

So, if Hagee is anti-rape, McCain condemns that? The remark oozes with pandering - anything you think is offensive, sorry! But no specific comment that might be controversial to either side.

Contrast that to Obama's outstanding speech on race, which actually addressed the issue of race. That says something about the abilities of each man to be president.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: maddogchen

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Overall score

Obama -1
McCain -1

False. McCain's score is much higher. His adventure with Hagee was not his first venture into the evangelical ozone.

shouldn't that read much lower?

Thanks. Fixed it to read, "much worse" to avoid confusion about magnitude vs. polarity.

 

[Bitek]

So I guess he was for his endorsement before he was against it,.....but still after he was against it in 2000?

Oh! My neck hurts from the whiplash flip flopping... oh, please stop McCain. Can't you just give some straight talk? Let's just talk about Bush Tax Cuts..oh wait, no!...*snap*


...ouch

 

[StageLeft]

I am starting to think that winning in November is simply impossible for McCain. Hard to call it yet, but so many things are stacked again him. Wright gives way to this is rather interesting, isn't it? Even if they're not of the same scope, they're of the same topic. Happy to receive an endorsement from Hagee (for what it's worth I saw hagee on tv over a decade ago and thought he was a hateful fat fvck, even before I knew anything about him, just a big angry bastard), no money vs obama, coming from a party in dire straits. He cannot pull off a win; merely Obama could lose by doing something horrific. I think that's the only way for mccain to pull this off.

 

[UberNeuman]

The Flip-Flop Express goes on flippin' and floppin' all the merry day.....

/as to you Gop'ers - make an issue out of something moronic attempting to boaster your side - be ready for it to be shoved back in your face, down your throat 'till it comes out your backside.....

 

[her209]

That's nothing. Obama was endorsed by Hamas which is much much worse.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: her209
That's nothing. Obama was endorsed by Hamas which is much much worse.

BULLSHIT! Karl Rove also said Hillary would be the stronger candidate. You're assuming Obama solicited endorsements from either of them.

Are you dumb enough to think they may not have their own agendas in making such an announcements or that they may not really want Obama to win?

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: her209
That's nothing. Obama was endorsed by Hamas which is much much worse.

BULLSHIT! Karl Rove also said Hillary would be the stronger candidate. You're assuming Obama solicited endorsements from either of them.

Are you dumb enough to think they may not have their own agendas in making such an announcements or that they may not really want Obama to win?

what if he said Hillary was the stronger candidate because he knew democrats would do the opposite of what he said and it's really an OMGREVERSEPSYCHOLOGY double super top secret plot to keep the TRAITOR IN CHIEF :|:| in power forever?

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I am starting to think that winning in November is simply impossible for McCain. Hard to call it yet, but so many things are stacked again him. Wright gives way to this is rather interesting, isn't it? Even if they're not of the same scope, they're of the same topic. Happy to receive an endorsement from Hagee (for what it's worth I saw hagee on tv over a decade ago and thought he was a hateful fat fvck, even before I knew anything about him, just a big angry bastard), no money vs obama, coming from a party in dire straits. He cannot pull off a win; merely Obama could lose by doing something horrific. I think that's the only way for mccain to pull this off.

I've been thinking that for a while. I was pulling for McCain in 2000 too. He's a terribly weak candidate after all the reversals and sell outs he's pulled in the last few years and his decision to saddle up to Bush's Iraq war. He's not the same guy who was running in 2000. His popularity is still highly buoyed by his media persona he's built up over many years, but I think alot of that will fall apart under scrutiny that is starting to occur in the GE.

He was the least weak of a horribly weak bench fielded this year by the GOP in a very anti-GOP year. If he cant really even pull in the base (like this Hagee pandering was an attempt at) and his efforts seem to just alienate the independents which he catered his maverick image towards. The GOP needed exceptionalism this year to win, and McCain isn't.

This is why Hilldog's argument makes no sense. If you even buy she is stronger, even if its 54+% vs 56+%, a win is a win. Obama just needs not to F it up, and so far he's been unsinkable.

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: her209
That's nothing. Obama was endorsed by Hamas which is much much worse.

BULLSHIT! Karl Rove also said Hillary would be the stronger candidate. You're assuming Obama solicited endorsements from either of them.

Are you dumb enough to think they may not have their own agendas in making such an announcements or that they may not really want Obama to win?

I wouldn't get too ramped up about this statement. Its so amazingly stupid is obviously not serious.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: loki8481

what if he said Hillary was the stronger candidate because he knew democrats would do the opposite of what he said and it's really an OMGREVERSEPSYCHOLOGY double super top secret plot to keep the TRAITOR IN CHIEF :|:| in power forever?

What if you posted an irrelevant bullshit smokescreen? Oh... wait... you already did. :roll:

At least you got Bush's designation right. He is the Traitor In Chief. :thumbsup:

 

[Duwelon]

Did mccain reject the endorsement or did Hagee withdraw it?

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Duwelon
Did mccain reject the endorsement or did Hagee withdraw it?

both?

seemed like it was one of those "you're fired," "no, I quit" kinda things.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: Duwelon
Did mccain reject the endorsement or did Hagee withdraw it?

both?

seemed like it was one of those "you're fired," "no, I quit" kinda things.

Well that sucks, there's nothing wrong and especially nothing hateful in what Hagee said. This is just a tit for tat attempt from the left and a lame one at that.