Dow Hits 32-Month High - Dave have you been investing again?

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The whole scenario speaks to the growing disconnect between the financial elite and the rest of us. At one time, their welfare and ours were intimately intetwined. That's no longer the case- their welfare depends largely on the ability to show a profit at the international level, the average American's depends on the ability to make a living at the local or regional level.

The current surge in the market reflects a growing profit margin achieved at the expense of American workers, rather than one achieved with their participation. Unemployment remains high, unlike past recoveries, and the growing number of underemployed partially masks that phenomenon. Health care coverage has fallen, while worker copays have increased, and Economy growth sectors offer lower average wages than losing sectors, too.

...blah blah blah...two Americas....blah blah blah.

Keep believing that BS, someday you'll see how silly it really is.

CkG

 

[alchemize]

Jhhnn:

Answer me one single question. What percentage of the stock market represents retirement accounts? Then proceed to explain to us how that is all "rich people's money".

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Question is will the Rich Boys keep playing with their Monopoly money or pull it backout again. As the Roller Coaster continues...

Translation: I wish I still had money in the stock market. I had to pull all of mine out to defend myself in court for installing distributed clients on anything closely resembling a computer. Maybe someday I'll be rich again and be able to invest, but that all depends on how my shares of DaveMart do. In the meantime, all of you people with 401k's, IRA's, etc., are really lucky; I envy you.

 

[heartsurgeon]

Translation: I wish I still had money in the stock market. I had to pull all of mine out to defend myself in court for installing distributed clients on anything closely resembling a computer. Maybe someday I'll be rich again and be able to invest, but that all depends on how my shares of DaveMart do. In the meantime, all of you people with 401k's, IRA's, etc., are really lucky; I envy you.

Ouch...way to personal...i don't approve...

 

[Ferocious]

I think most people are waiting for that high point before the bear market starts.

Most people believe it will happen this year.

I just wish I knew which month.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

Translation: I wish I still had money in the stock market. I had to pull all of mine out to defend myself in court for installing distributed clients on anything closely resembling a computer. Maybe someday I'll be rich again and be able to invest, but that all depends on how my shares of DaveMart do. In the meantime, all of you people with 401k's, IRA's, etc., are really lucky; I envy you.

Ouch...way to personal...i don't approve...

It's OK HS, the guy couldn't be any more wrong which makes it not personal at all.

The only true part is I am certainly not a Rich Boy. The little money I had in the stock Market was not enough to even keep me in the "Monopoly" Game and it cost me money every month I kept the account. Cost so much to stay in the Stock Market I had to get out and it cost me $3,000 to get out of the Stock Market to close out the Broker Account.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The whole scenario speaks to the growing disconnect between the financial elite and the rest of us. At one time, their welfare and ours were intimately intetwined. That's no longer the case- their welfare depends largely on the ability to show a profit at the international level, the average American's depends on the ability to make a living at the local or regional level.

The current surge in the market reflects a growing profit margin achieved at the expense of American workers, rather than one achieved with their participation. Unemployment remains high, unlike past recoveries, and the growing number of underemployed partially masks that phenomenon. Health care coverage has fallen, while worker copays have increased, and Economy growth sectors offer lower average wages than losing sectors, too.

Large tax cuts on the upper echelons also increase market activity, if not actually adding any real value to the shares being traded. As we've seen with Lucent, WorldCom, Enron and others, stock price is more an issue of perception and manipulation than of real value... When the money supply of the stock trading segment of the population is increased, as it has been with the taxcuts, it's only natural that prices will rise...

Talk to me about the improving economy when there are some significant increases in employment, when wages and health care coverages are increasing and personal bankruptcies showing significant decreases. Otherwise, you're just pumping sunshine up our skirts...

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner, nice post Jhhnn.

 

[heartsurgeon]

The only true part is I am certainly not a Rich Boy. The little money I had in the stock Market was not enough to even keep me in the "Monopoly" Game and it cost me money every month I kept the account. Cost so much to stay in the Stock Market I had to get out and it cost me $3,000 to get out of the Stock Market to close out the Broker Account.

your doing something wrong...you need in invest in a index fund...exceptionally low fees because the shares are not actively traded, put a small amount of money in monthly...your money will grow an avaerage of 10% per year...OVER THE LONG TERM...this is the key..don't sell when "high", don't sell when "low"..this is a long term strategy for your retirement..not an "investment strategy" for quick returns. I stopped using Brokers years ago....can't trust em...

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

The only true part is I am certainly not a Rich Boy. The little money I had in the stock Market was not enough to even keep me in the "Monopoly" Game and it cost me money every month I kept the account. Cost so much to stay in the Stock Market I had to get out and it cost me $3,000 to get out of the Stock Market to close out the Broker Account.

Translation: I used to have money in the stock market and like most ameture investors, I thought I could do no wrong. Everything was going up and I was a genious. Then the market went down. At first I lost $3,000. Then my brokerage firm started charging a fee every quarter due to a drop in revenue from trades, so I took my $3,000 loss and pulled out. Had I not blindly followed other people, did some research and understood more about the economy and the companies I was investing in, I might not have lost my ass. I did, so I come here to proclaim that the only people who can afford to stay in the stock market are rich, because I can't afford to gamble (and likely lose) what little money I have left.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The whole scenario speaks to the growing disconnect between the financial elite and the rest of us. At one time, their welfare and ours were intimately intetwined. That's no longer the case- their welfare depends largely on the ability to show a profit at the international level, the average American's depends on the ability to make a living at the local or regional level.

The current surge in the market reflects a growing profit margin achieved at the expense of American workers, rather than one achieved with their participation. Unemployment remains high, unlike past recoveries, and the growing number of underemployed partially masks that phenomenon. Health care coverage has fallen, while worker copays have increased, and Economy growth sectors offer lower average wages than losing sectors, too.

Large tax cuts on the upper echelons also increase market activity, if not actually adding any real value to the shares being traded. As we've seen with Lucent, WorldCom, Enron and others, stock price is more an issue of perception and manipulation than of real value... When the money supply of the stock trading segment of the population is increased, as it has been with the taxcuts, it's only natural that prices will rise...

Talk to me about the improving economy when there are some significant increases in employment, when wages and health care coverages are increasing and personal bankruptcies showing significant decreases. Otherwise, you're just pumping sunshine up our skirts...

Another, I'm not rich so I'm going to cry, post. Learn something about how companies work, how corporate America has become more efficient than ever in the last few years due to tech spending and then learn something about the stock market. As long as you seek instant gratification and think that an economy can turn 180 degrees overnight, you are a fool. Just as it took time for our economy to build up, it will take time to recover. We continue to take steps in the right direction and when it does reach the levels you think it needs to, I'm sure you'll be back here crying with your pal Dave because something else is wrong in the world.

There is no growing disconnect, other than in your mind. America is a nation ripe full of opportunity. If you spend your life working for the man, then you'll probably never see it. This country has created more millionares and provided more opportunity for those willing to take risks, fail and try again. And as a by product, we have a huge middle class of people that making really good wages and living great lives. Until you get out from behind the desk of whatever job you're working, then be prepared to enjoy the mediocracy that you have created for yourself.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The whole scenario speaks to the growing disconnect between the financial elite and the rest of us. At one time, their welfare and ours were intimately intetwined. That's no longer the case- their welfare depends largely on the ability to show a profit at the international level, the average American's depends on the ability to make a living at the local or regional level.

The current surge in the market reflects a growing profit margin achieved at the expense of American workers, rather than one achieved with their participation. Unemployment remains high, unlike past recoveries, and the growing number of underemployed partially masks that phenomenon. Health care coverage has fallen, while worker copays have increased, and Economy growth sectors offer lower average wages than losing sectors, too.

Large tax cuts on the upper echelons also increase market activity, if not actually adding any real value to the shares being traded. As we've seen with Lucent, WorldCom, Enron and others, stock price is more an issue of perception and manipulation than of real value... When the money supply of the stock trading segment of the population is increased, as it has been with the taxcuts, it's only natural that prices will rise...

Talk to me about the improving economy when there are some significant increases in employment, when wages and health care coverages are increasing and personal bankruptcies showing significant decreases. Otherwise, you're just pumping sunshine up our skirts...

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner, nice post Jhhnn.

I pose the same question to you.

Answer me one single question. What percentage of the stock market represents retirement accounts? Then proceed to explain to us how that is all "rich people's money".

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

Translation: I wish I still had money in the stock market. I had to pull all of mine out to defend myself in court for installing distributed clients on anything closely resembling a computer. Maybe someday I'll be rich again and be able to invest, but that all depends on how my shares of DaveMart do. In the meantime, all of you people with 401k's, IRA's, etc., are really lucky; I envy you.

Ouch...way to personal...i don't approve...

It's OK HS, the guy couldn't be any more wrong which makes it not personal at all.

The only true part is I am certainly not a Rich Boy. The little money I had in the stock Market was not enough to even keep me in the "Monopoly" Game and it cost me money every month I kept the account. Cost so much to stay in the Stock Market I had to get out and it cost me $3,000 to get out of the Stock Market to close out the Broker Account.

I have some more questions for you:

Do you know what dollar-cost averaging is? Do you understand the concepts of present and future value? Do you know what a no-load mutual fund is? An index fund? The time value of money? Compounding interest and capital gains? Dividend reinvestment? Roth vs. Traditional IRA's? Portfolio Diversification? Beta? Risk v Return? PE Ratio?

How quaint that the one always posting and criticizing econonmic results doesn't even have a sliver of understanding when it comes to the most basic of investing principles.

 

[Bitek]

Hey I think its great the market has picked up in the last few months, my father is a broker and I have have money invested, so this has def been a boon (although its going to be hard too beat last year after Bush wreaked the market with the little Iraqi excursion and artifically depressed nearly every stock.)

What you apologists are quick to overlook however, is how this really ties to the economy. A rising market does not necc mean a rising economy, even though they tend to have coincidal movement which causes people to falsely believe they do. You have to look at the reasons for the market's recovery to understand what is going on. For one the market has been undervalued due to dotcom collapse, 9/11, Enron & Co, and the time leading up to the Iraq invasion, and the trend over the last 6-9 mos can be seen in part as a correction. Also, the increase in corporate profits are not ness due to growth in their markets, but due to lowering of expenses. This largely comprises of tax decreases, lower labor costs (read, mostly layoffs, drops in benefits (esp. healthcare) and wages, and the dreaded outsourcing,) and increasing productivity (tech improvements, but also longer working hours, which are already the highest in the world.) The effects of large increases in govt spending cannot be overlooked either! <--That, you can attribute to Bush.

Exporters have seen benefits to a weak dollar, but this is not beneficial across the board. It causes imported raw materials and goods to be more expensive. More importantly, it discourages foreign investment. When coupled with skyrocketing fed deficits, has the potential to create instability in our economy from a global perspecitive and increase interest rates (which can halt an economic recovery.)

Put this together, and you realize that this sort of growth is not sustainable. Taxes will not continue to decrease, and you can only cut so many jobs and benefits. None of the above (besides lower taxes) actually benefit the American worker. Job creation, while no longer hemorraging, has been lackluster. Even the last months figures of ~125k jobs created was actually less than expected. The increase in profits is encouraging, but not until it translates in increased corp. spending, production and widespread job creation, can we really say we are out of the woods. (Although this is a catch 22, how can you increase demand for product when jobs and wages are falling/not growing?)

The economy is improving but is still weak-kneed. True economic strength may still be some time in coming. Wait until Americans are back to work and seeing wages rising before you start popping your corks.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Hafen
A rising market does not necc mean a rising economy

What's that I hear? Is it the liberals changing their tune again?

You liberals like to point back to the booming stock market with was tied to the booming economy during the Clinton years. Now you are trying to say that the stock market doesn't neccessarily mean a rising econcomy.

So you're going to admit the economy under Clinton wasn't all that great because the world economy was in the crapper and the market crashed???

 

[adlep]

I will not invest again, because Ken Lay is not in jail yet...
Next Enron is just waiting to happen again..

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: adlep
I will not invest again, because Ken Lay is not in jail yet...
Next Enron is just waiting to happen again..

Hey look another well-informed knee-jerk ~!

No worries, the government teat will be there for you to suckle at when you retire 🙂

 

[alchemize]

Heh the crickets are really loud on this thread. Dave? Jhhnn? I had some questions for you. Google em up!

 

[amok]

I'm in a hurry (later for my first meeting), so I didn't bother to look for an answer you already know, but I do have a question for you alchemize 😉. What percentage of the stocks currently on the market are overvalued? Looking at each individual stock on the dow, do you really feel a large percentage of them are fairly valued? Toward the end of the year I reviewed my portfolio pretty extensively with my broker, because I have to pay taxes in December and needed to figure out what I wanted to do regarding profit taking. Even at that time, when the prices were a bit lower, I ended up slashing nearly 3/4 of my portfolio and reinvesting for value. My broker and I had a tough time putting together a fairly diverse portfolio with that constraint. Don't you think there might be a little bit of the good old irrational exuberance involved with this rally?

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't know the answer, Alchemize, although I'm sure it's a fairly large percentage. Perhaps you'll enlighten me, or play games- whatever.

It's no secret that captive pension plans are in trouble, corporate employers having scrimped on contributions during the boom years of the 90's. The rising market is good news in the respect that it helps them hide their fundamental problems, continue the usual outrageous executive enrichment.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The whole scenario speaks to the growing disconnect between the financial elite and the rest of us. At one time, their welfare and ours were intimately intetwined. That's no longer the case- their welfare depends largely on the ability to show a profit at the international level, the average American's depends on the ability to make a living at the local or regional level.

The current surge in the market reflects a growing profit margin achieved at the expense of American workers, rather than one achieved with their participation. Unemployment remains high, unlike past recoveries, and the growing number of underemployed partially masks that phenomenon. Health care coverage has fallen, while worker copays have increased, and Economy growth sectors offer lower average wages than losing sectors, too.

Large tax cuts on the upper echelons also increase market activity, if not actually adding any real value to the shares being traded. As we've seen with Lucent, WorldCom, Enron and others, stock price is more an issue of perception and manipulation than of real value... When the money supply of the stock trading segment of the population is increased, as it has been with the taxcuts, it's only natural that prices will rise...

Talk to me about the improving economy when there are some significant increases in employment, when wages and health care coverages are increasing and personal bankruptcies showing significant decreases. Otherwise, you're just pumping sunshine up our skirts...

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner, nice post Jhhnn.

I pose the same question to you.

Answer me one single question. What percentage of the stock market represents retirement accounts? Then proceed to explain to us how that is all "rich people's money".

You Rich Boys are so funny. Yeah sure old man outting in his nest egg is a super power broker. He handed his money over to Rich Boys to play with it.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

Translation: I wish I still had money in the stock market. I had to pull all of mine out to defend myself in court for installing distributed clients on anything closely resembling a computer. Maybe someday I'll be rich again and be able to invest, but that all depends on how my shares of DaveMart do. In the meantime, all of you people with 401k's, IRA's, etc., are really lucky; I envy you.

Ouch...way to personal...i don't approve...

It's OK HS, the guy couldn't be any more wrong which makes it not personal at all.

The only true part is I am certainly not a Rich Boy. The little money I had in the stock Market was not enough to even keep me in the "Monopoly" Game and it cost me money every month I kept the account. Cost so much to stay in the Stock Market I had to get out and it cost me $3,000 to get out of the Stock Market to close out the Broker Account.

I have some more questions for you:

Do you know what dollar-cost averaging is? Do you understand the concepts of present and future value? Do you know what a no-load mutual fund is? An index fund? The time value of money? Compounding interest and capital gains? Dividend reinvestment? Roth vs. Traditional IRA's? Portfolio Diversification? Beta? Risk v Return? PE Ratio?

How quaint that the one always posting and criticizing econonmic results doesn't even have a sliver of understanding when it comes to the most basic of investing principles.

Yes, the Rich Boys bank. Each pats each other on the back while they move their money around on each's accounts and Monopoly Banks while the rest of the low class puts what little they can in a phoney account set up by the Rich Boys that will go bust so they can rape the little ones legally. Brilliant actually.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
I don't know the answer, Alchemize, although I'm sure it's a fairly large percentage. Perhaps you'll enlighten me, or play games- whatever.

It's no secret that captive pension plans are in trouble, corporate employers having scrimped on contributions during the boom years of the 90's. The rising market is good news in the respect that it helps them hide their fundamental problems, continue the usual outrageous executive enrichment.

Exactly, the Rich Boys did so well pilfraging and raping the little ones that they ran out and now turning on the bottom rung of themselves, like a snake eating it's own tail, quite sad actually. It doesn't matter to them because the Rich Boys at the top don't care as they have all the money they'll ever need, more than they can ever spend so the suffering of the world in their spoils doesn't hurt them a bit.

I know personally because I worked for a couple of these Rich Boys, they are clever enough to fool ordinary folks into giving them their money to play with but they need help turning on a computer.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: amok
I'm in a hurry (later for my first meeting), so I didn't bother to look for an answer you already know, but I do have a question for you alchemize 😉. What percentage of the stocks currently on the market are overvalued? Looking at each individual stock on the dow, do you really feel a large percentage of them are fairly valued? Toward the end of the year I reviewed my portfolio pretty extensively with my broker, because I have to pay taxes in December and needed to figure out what I wanted to do regarding profit taking. Even at that time, when the prices were a bit lower, I ended up slashing nearly 3/4 of my portfolio and reinvesting for value. My broker and I had a tough time putting together a fairly diverse portfolio with that constraint. Don't you think there might be a little bit of the good old irrational exuberance involved with this rally?

Amok,

Since I dollar-cost average into index funds, over/undervaluing is not relevant. Anytime I've tried to be a predictionist/market timer, it hasn't worked 🙂 There's a reason that index funds outperform 90% of all mutual funds...

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The whole scenario speaks to the growing disconnect between the financial elite and the rest of us. At one time, their welfare and ours were intimately intetwined. That's no longer the case- their welfare depends largely on the ability to show a profit at the international level, the average American's depends on the ability to make a living at the local or regional level.

The current surge in the market reflects a growing profit margin achieved at the expense of American workers, rather than one achieved with their participation. Unemployment remains high, unlike past recoveries, and the growing number of underemployed partially masks that phenomenon. Health care coverage has fallen, while worker copays have increased, and Economy growth sectors offer lower average wages than losing sectors, too.

Large tax cuts on the upper echelons also increase market activity, if not actually adding any real value to the shares being traded. As we've seen with Lucent, WorldCom, Enron and others, stock price is more an issue of perception and manipulation than of real value... When the money supply of the stock trading segment of the population is increased, as it has been with the taxcuts, it's only natural that prices will rise...

Talk to me about the improving economy when there are some significant increases in employment, when wages and health care coverages are increasing and personal bankruptcies showing significant decreases. Otherwise, you're just pumping sunshine up our skirts...

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner, nice post Jhhnn.

I pose the same question to you.

Answer me one single question. What percentage of the stock market represents retirement accounts? Then proceed to explain to us how that is all "rich people's money".

You Rich Boys are so funny. Yeah sure old man outting in his nest egg is a super power broker. He handed his money over to Rich Boys to play with it.

OK Dave you super power idiot, explain to me how a "rich boy" can play with an index fund?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

Translation: I wish I still had money in the stock market. I had to pull all of mine out to defend myself in court for installing distributed clients on anything closely resembling a computer. Maybe someday I'll be rich again and be able to invest, but that all depends on how my shares of DaveMart do. In the meantime, all of you people with 401k's, IRA's, etc., are really lucky; I envy you.

Ouch...way to personal...i don't approve...

It's OK HS, the guy couldn't be any more wrong which makes it not personal at all.

The only true part is I am certainly not a Rich Boy. The little money I had in the stock Market was not enough to even keep me in the "Monopoly" Game and it cost me money every month I kept the account. Cost so much to stay in the Stock Market I had to get out and it cost me $3,000 to get out of the Stock Market to close out the Broker Account.

I have some more questions for you:

Do you know what dollar-cost averaging is? Do you understand the concepts of present and future value? Do you know what a no-load mutual fund is? An index fund? The time value of money? Compounding interest and capital gains? Dividend reinvestment? Roth vs. Traditional IRA's? Portfolio Diversification? Beta? Risk v Return? PE Ratio?

How quaint that the one always posting and criticizing econonmic results doesn't even have a sliver of understanding when it comes to the most basic of investing principles.

Yes, the Rich Boys bank. Each pats each other on the back while they move their money around on each's accounts and Monopoly Banks while the rest of the low class puts what little they can in a phoney account set up by the Rich Boys that will go bust so they can rape the little ones legally. Brilliant actually.

Thanks for once agin proving your ignorance.