double post

[russr]

I don't see how the release of the GF 6600 GT will cause the GF 6800 NU to drop $50. It's not really in the same class as the 6600 so why should its price change? If anything, if its price dropped $50, it would be around $220-$230. People would more likely buy it instead of the 6600 GTs at $200 thus reducing sales on the 6600.

The only drop in price I can see is for all cards that perform worse than the 6600s like the 9800 Pro. I don't know if it will be below $150 though.

 

[CU]

I don't think the 6800nu will drop any either. I think it would drop more if the 6600 was not coming out.

 

[EvanB]

Ive played SWG on lots of setups, lots of combonations of the following: p4 3.4, 3.0, A64 3200+, 9800pro, 6800gt, 512mb, 1gb, 2gb.

If you only want to run at 12x10 or 10x8 or whatever, the 9800pro is fine. Only in 16x12 did I need the 6800gt. Also, SWG loves RAM. Eats it. More RAM the better. It runs better on a p4 3.0 with 2gb and a 9800pro than on a A64 with 1gb and a 6800gt. Ram makes all the difference. That being said, more RAM and a 9800pro would be great for it.

 

[russr]

EvanB, your tests with the 9800 Pro was it with all details turned up as high as possible and with AF and AA turned on?

 

[EvanB]

Yeah, except I dont know about AA. I forget. Ill run it now and check it out.

 

[Acanthus]

For that engine, which im very familiar with, you need 1GB of memory before any graphics upgrade.

As far as bang for the buck goes, with MMORPGS you have to throw all the money you can at it, no joke.

Even top of the line systems today can bog on MMORPGS especially in crowded areas like cities and raids where the geometry and texture counts spiral out of control very quickly.

I was a vet on DAOC and SWG, both engines can easily eat up 900MB+ of memory, as well as make a 9800 Pro run screaming with its arms in the air into the night.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: russr
EvanB, your tests with the 9800 Pro was it with all details turned up as high as possible and with AF and AA turned on?

I would not run AA in a MMORPG.

 

[EvanB]

Well, I forced 16x Af and 4x AA at 12x10 with max details and shadows. It runs fine even in big citys like coronet, but thats with a A64 3400+, 1gb ram and a 6800gt. But 1gb RAM is a must. 2gb is better. if you dont run AA, a 9800pro and 1gb RAM should be fine most of the time. If you dont run shadows, taht will help immensely as well. I can try it later on a 3.4 9800pro with 1 gb of RAM if youd like.

 

[russr]

Originally posted by: EvanB
Well, I forced 16x Af and 4x AA at 12x10 with max details and shadows. It runs fine even in big citys like coronet, but thats with a A64 3400+, 1gb ram and a 6800gt. But 1gb RAM is a must. 2gb is better. if you dont run AA, a 9800pro and 1gb RAM should be fine most of the time. If you dont run shadows, taht will help immensely as well. I can try it later on a 3.4 9800pro with 1 gb of RAM if youd like.

of course it runs fine, you've got one of the best video cards on one of the best cpus and 1gb of ram. I want to know how it runs at those settings with a 9800 Pro card.

And yes to everyone recommending at least 1gb of ram. I am upgrading the ram and I've already established that in some of my posts. Right now it's about the video card and which one would give the best bang for the buck.

Acanthus: why would you not recommend AA or AF in an MMORPG?

 

[EvanB]

grrr, I know you want to know how it runs on a 9800pro, thats why i said id test that later. I thought you might want to know how it ran on a 6800gt though for comparison.

 

[Alptraum]

Well, as I mentioned earler I have run it on a 9800pro. 1280x1024 with details cranked up works fine. The only stutters you will find is occasionally in someplace like Coronet with a ton of people around. But thats not always just a video issue.

I can't remember for sure which one it was but either AA or AF do not work right with that game. Sony has the info somewhere on their site (unless they fixed that). Wichever one worked correctly I had up either maxed out or pretty high.

If RAM is already in your equation then I would probably get the 6800. But as far as SWG goes the 9800pro will run it fine at 1280x1024.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: russr
I don't see how the release of the GF 6600 GT will cause the GF 6800 NU to drop $50. It's not really in the same class as the 6600 so why should its price change? If anything, if its price dropped $50, it would be around $220-$230. People would more likely buy it instead of the 6600 GTs at $200 thus reducing sales on the 6600.

The only drop in price I can see is for all cards that perform worse than the 6600s like the 9800 Pro. I don't know if it will be below $150 though.

why yes, it IS in the SAME class as the 6800 standard - expect 8,000(+) in 3DMark'03 for $199 MSRP.

You really think the 6800 is gonna stay $299 ($280 street)?

impossible . . . IMO - i'd bet on it

:roll:

edit: i'm glad my suggestion worked . . . you got some pretty positive answers on the 9800p and SWG being "fine" and "OK" . . . it's a fact, for $100 more the 6800 will run it "better" . . . only you can decide if the extra $100 for some more performance is worth it to you.

I already picked the 9800 for myself over 2 months ago and am totally happy with my choice . . .

. . . of course i upgrade a bit more often than you do (my last upgrade was 18 months a Radeon 8500-128MB and B4 that, a Radeon 7200 64MB.

 

[russr]

I wish I were buying this video card to play DOOM III because then deciding which to get wouldn't be an issue. I'd be instead deciding which brand of 6800 NU I wanted.

Fact is, I'm probably not going to play much else besides SWG and seeing as how the game is capped at 30fps and I can run it "fine" at 1280x1024, I'm probably just gonna get the 9800 Pro 128mb. If I later decide to play a game that the card can't handle, I wouldn't have lost $250.

I will most likely buy the card used from the FS/FT forums because I only wanna spend as little as possible for "yesterday's goods".

 

[nRollo]

why yes, it IS in the SAME class as the 6800 standard - expect 8,000(+) in 3DMark'03 for $199 MSRP.

You really think the 6800 is gonna stay $299 ($280 street)?

The only people who say the 9800Pro is in the "same class" as a 6800nu are the ones who can't afford an NU and for some reason want to drag other purchasers down with them. :roll:

I have no problem with the 9800Pro at all. Mine served me well from 7/03 till around 4/04. It's a stellar card that offered great high end performance then and stellar mid range performance now.

Unlike some people here who like to post about how the 6800NU is "the same as a 9800Pro- but $100 more", I've actually used both cards.

The 9800Pro is no 6800NU. Don't take my word for it- check out Anand's review where the 6800NU beats the 9800XT in 2/3 of the benchmarks by 20% or more. Most people take for granted a 9800XT is faster than a 9800Pro.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2113

Check out this review at Hot Hardware, where the 6800NU goes 37-9-5 against a 9800XT, and they include testing at settings neither of these cards can handle: 16x12 4x8x and 16X12 4X16X.

So let's see OP: you can take the word of someone who's actually used both cards extensively, and review sites, or some guy trying to defend his choice not to spend much money.

You buy a 6800NU and you don't have to worry about flashing your bios to XT, OCing the life out of your card, etc.. You can get 9800XT performance, usually better, straight out of the box and under warranty.

Your choice and your loss if you choose wrong. Good luck with it.

<waits for post from XBit- "See, when you enable 16X AF the 6800NU is at a disadvantage!" sigh>

 

[Alptraum]

Originally posted by: Rollo

why yes, it IS in the SAME class as the 6800 standard - expect 8,000(+) in 3DMark'03 for $199 MSRP.

You really think the 6800 is gonna stay $299 ($280 street)?

The only people who say the 9800Pro is in the "same class" as a 6800nu are the ones who can't afford an NU and for some reason want to drag other purchasers down with them. :roll:

I have no problem with the 9800Pro at all. Mine served me well from 7/03 till around 4/04. It's a stellar card that offered great high end performance then and stellar mid range performance now.

Unlike some people here who like to post about how the 6800NU is "the same as a 9800Pro- but $100 more", I've actually used both cards.

The 9800Pro is no 6800NU. Don't take my word for it- check out Anand's review where the 6800NU beats the 9800XT in 2/3 of the benchmarks by 20% or more. Most people take for granted a 9800XT is faster than a 9800Pro.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2113

Check out this review at Hot Hardware, where the 6800NU goes 37-9-5 against a 9800XT, and they include testing at settings neither of these cards can handle: 16x12 4x8x and 16X12 4X16X.

So let's see OP: you can take the word of someone who's actually used both cards extensively, and review sites, or some guy trying to defend his choice not to spend much money.

You buy a 6800NU and you don't have to worry about flashing your bios to XT, OCing the life out of your card, etc.. You can get 9800XT performance, usually better, straight out of the box and under warranty.

Your choice and your loss if you choose wrong. Good luck with it.

<waits for post from XBit- "See, when you enable 16X AF the 6800NU is at a disadvantage!" sigh>

I think he was saying the 6600GT is in the same class as the 6800, and not the 9800pro. Anybody that said that would have to be smoking crack or something. Though from the little bit I have seen on Firingsquad I don't think the 6600 will compete with the 6800 much performance wise as its a 128bit card with 8 pipes versus 256bit and 12pipes on a vanilla 6800.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Alptraum
[ I think he was saying the 6600GT is in the same class as the 6800, and not the 9800pro. Anybody that said that would have to be smoking crack or something. Though from the little bit I have seen on Firingsquad I don't think the 6600 will compete with the 6800 much performance wise as its a 128bit card with 8 pipes versus 256bit and 12pipes on a vanilla 6800.

letsee, the 'he' must be me.

What DID i say?

letsee, i was answering russr who asked about the 6600 and i said:

why yes, it IS in the SAME class as the 6800 standard - expect 8,000(+) in 3DMark'03 for $199 MSRP.

now it is clear to all but the most inattentive of us that the 9800p does NOT get 8,000+ Marks in 3Dmark03 and it does NOT have a MSRP of $199 . . . very clearly, i was talking about the 6600 vs the 6800.

:roll:

As we said it will give you just a little bit above 8000 in 3Dmark03 and you can see that here and our Chinese colleagues were not selfish about more info. They said it will be clocked to a magnificent 500/1000 MHz - it's 110 nanometres

AFTER THAT, i compared the 6800 and the 9800p and said

you got some pretty positive answers on the 9800p and SWG being "fine" and "OK" . . . it's a fact, for $100 more the 6800 will run it "better" . . . only you can decide if the extra $100 for some more performance is worth it to you.

i think i am being purposely misquoted.

anyway, for his purposes, tthe OP 'chose well' . . . i think the lowest i see for a new 256bit/128MB Radeon Pro is at Fry's/Outpost for $179 and i've 'heard' of $160 after MIR but can't confirm.

Used should be good too, if it wasn't O/C'd irresponsibly.

i even think refurbs might be OK if you get the full mfg warranty . . .

 

[Alptraum]

letsee, the 'he' must be me

Indeed it was

I just posted trying to clear up the other 'he' (Rollo) since he seemed to think you were talking 6800 vs 9800p or something. Lol, I must be bored tonight.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Alptraum

letsee, the 'he' must be me

Indeed it was

I just posted trying to clear up the other 'he' (Rollo) since he seemed to think you were talking 6800 vs 9800p or something. Lol, I must be bored tonight.

thank-you . . . i reread my posts and it is very clear i was comparing the 6600 and 6800 when i said they are in the same class.

it appears i offended him somehow and he seems to want to pick on everything i say . . .
. . . i simply completely stopped reading any of his posts after he made it so obvious and so "personal"
(it's pretty hard to argue by yourself but he manages, i guess)

:roll:

 

[russr]

Rollo, you gotta read apoppin's posts more carefully so you can see the context in which he is saying things. It's not right to just unleash on the poor guy like that. It's clear to me that he was comparing the 6600GT to the 6800 NU just read my post he was replying to. No one is saying the 9800Pro or even the 9800Xt are as good as the 6800NU.

Apoppin, I still disagree about the 6600GT and the 6800NU being in the same class. Like another fellow said, one has 8 pipelines and 128-bit and the other is 12 pipelines and 256 bit. The whole purpose of the 6600 line is to give consumers in the mainstream market the advantage of the GF 6xxx series w/o the high price. I don't think the GF 6800 NU is in this class and while it may come down a few bucks, it won't be much because it is not in Nvidia's best interest to release a card (6600GT) that will compete with another one of their cards (6800NU). When they've done that in the past, it hasn't had good results and I think they know better now.

To everyone else, I managed to find an ATi Radeaon 9800 Pro 128mb 256bit card on the FS forums for $140 shipped. The card has never been overclocked or flashed and the guy bought it in May'04. While the GF 6800 NU is much better, the 9800 Pro is going to be good enough for me to run SWG at 1280x1024 with all details turned up. I might not be able to turn on AA or AF, but from what I've heard u shouldn't turn on those on in an MMPORPG. So for better or for worse I'm getting a 9800 Pro @ $140. At that price, it is hard to go wrong as if I find it is not adequate enough for my needs, I've not lost a lot and I can always sell it and get one of the gf 6800 series cards.

One of my main concerns with the 9800Pro is the amount of power the card uses.

 

[Alptraum]

One of my main concerns with the 9800Pro is the amount of power the card uses

What kind of PS do you have? The manuel for my 9800pro AIW says it requires 300watts. Probably abit less for a none AIW version. I have an antec Trupower430, but any decent PS should handle your 9800pro with no trouble.

 

[russr]

It generates a lot of heat too doesn't it?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: russr
It generates a lot of heat too doesn't it?

not stock . . . well, not "too bad" if you have good case cooling.

Since i flashed my 9800p 256/256> XT, my case temps went up ~ 10 F . . . adding a Arctic-Cooling Silencer R3 - which exhausts the air out of the case - completely solved my problem AND allows me to o/c my card further.


As to power usage, a generic 300w should be sufficient (if your case isn't already overloaded)

. . . as to my saying the 6600 and the 6800 are in the 'same class' - it wasn't an 'original' idea of mine -that comparison came from a couple of articles i read; 1 i linked to . . . we'll know for sure, soon enough.*

and let us know what YOU think - after you get your card.

*EDIT: I still think the 6600 and 6800 are still in the same "class"; just maybe not the same "level" (clearly the 6800 is gonna 'win' MOST of the benchs over the 6600) but close . . . the 6600 is clocked higher with higher memory . . . IF it (really) gets 8,000+ pointss in 3DM'03 it IS in the same class . . . UNLIKE all the Radeon 9800 varients which are NOT in the same class as the 6800/6600 (which "only" gets ~5,300-6,800 points, depending on o/c'ing)

 

[imported_jediknight]

Originally posted by: kurisu
I had a very limited budget as I've made other higher priority [not to mention large] purchases as of late. apoppin, have you ever played Star Wars Galaxies? It's an odd engine. You'll be surprised with my forthcoming screencaps.

The game is capped at 30fps anyway.

I would like to play it.. but IMHO, it's too expensive:

Subscription rates for Star Wars Galaxies?: An Empire Divided?

1 month - $14.99
3 months - $41.99
6 months - $77.99
12 months - $143.99

I'd rather just plop down my 50 bucks for a game that allows me to play unlimited online multiplayer forever (or, at least until the game is hopelessly out of date :->)

.. but that's just me :->

 

[nRollo]

My apologies to Apoppin' for the above, I misunderstood the post.

Anyway, the 6600GT should be a good competitor to the 9800P, not the 6800NU.

 

[russr]

Unfortunately the entire gf 6600 series will be PCI-e only at first. I checked Nvidia's site and it seems that way. Also firingsquad indicates the same. Because of this, I don't think it'll have as big a market as we'd expect until they release the AGP versions.

A 3dmark score of over 8000 is impressive as the gf 6800NU gets around 8500 if run at stock speeds. I suspect that because of the 128-bit interface, the fill rate will be lower and the card might suffer at higher resolutions with AA &amp; AF. This might casue the gf 6800NU to come down in price. If it does, I might end up selling the 9800Pro for it. Guess it all depends on how satisfied I am with the 9800Pro. You gotta admit $140 for it even used is a steal isn't it?