double post

[russr]

I am looking to upgrade my video card and I was all set on getting the ATI 9800 PRO 128mb until I saw the DOOM 3 benchmarks. For close to $100 more I can get the GF 6800 NU which totally blows the 9800 Pro and XT away in DOOM 3.

I am getting it to play Star Wars Galaxies, and will NOT play Doom 3. HOwever if future games are like DOOM 3, that would make a difference.

I'd like to play SWG at 1280x1024 with AA/AF, full details and have good fps.

Is the GF 6800 worth the extra cash over the 9800 Pro?

 

[lordtyranus]

If you are not playing Doom 3, IMO it is not.

 

[Marsumane]

If you have the extra money to blow? Yes, its a good investment. If you need that $100 to upgrade another component? No, the 9800p is ~75% of the 6800nu and will be good enough for the game you want to play it in. The iffy part here is how each will do in the future. The 6800 "seems" more futureproof, but who knows.

 

[jdogg707]

If it came between grabbing 512MB of RAM or 6800 over a 9800 Pro, I would get the extra 512MB and 9800 Pro.

 

[Marsumane]

Originally posted by: jdogg707
If it came between grabbing 512MB of RAM or 6800 over a 9800 Pro, I would get the extra 512MB and 9800 Pro.

Oh god, not this argument again! Some games require more than 512mb of ram to run at their best. Some upcomming games even more. RTS and MMORPG games tend to be a couple genres that come to mind that you may want to get the extra ram + the card over the 6800nu. On the other hand, most games out today would benefit from the 6800nu more than the extra ram + 9800p. Personally, I use my computer for much more than gaming and I also tend to play games that use more than the typical game with respect to ram. That is why i have a gig of ram + an overclocked 9800p in my system. (not to mention it was the first card in its class to go cheap for a day when i was looking )

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: russr
I am looking to upgrade my video card and I was all set on getting the ATI 9800 PRO 128mb until I saw the DOOM 3 benchmarks. For close to $100 more I can get the GF 6800 NU which totally blows the 9800 Pro and XT away in DOOM 3.

I am getting it to play Star Wars Galaxies, and will NOT play Doom 3. HOwever if future games are like DOOM 3, that would make a difference.

Is the GF 6800 worth the extra cash over the 9800 Pro?

the next game using the Doom III engine is likely to be a year away . . . by THEN, r500/nv50 will be out and the 6800 will be dirt-cheap (well a bit more than that).

It's your call.

two months ago i went for the 9800xt for $223 and have NOT regretted it (OTOH i did regret the $44 i WASTED on Doom III)

in many other games, the 6800Standard is maybe 12-25% faster than the 9800xt . . . in some instances the 128MB ram of the 6800 holds it back compared with the 6800GT - nVidia's best bang-for-buck videocard, currently.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: jdogg707
If it came between grabbing 512MB of RAM or 6800 over a 9800 Pro, I would get the extra 512MB and 9800 Pro.

What?!?!?!? How DARE you say that!!!!!



LOL

I think a 6800NU is the better deal here, because some current and upcoming games it will run much better than a 9800P, there are no games it will run slower than a 9800P. The RAM is a separate issue that the OP did not mention. He may have a GB of RAM and not be concerned with this?

 

[Aleksandar]

get the 6800 come you spend 100$ on gas every week

 

[jdogg707]

Originally posted by: Marsumane

Originally posted by: jdogg707
If it came between grabbing 512MB of RAM or 6800 over a 9800 Pro, I would get the extra 512MB and 9800 Pro.

Oh god, not this argument again! Some games require more than 512mb of ram to run at their best. Some upcomming games even more. RTS and MMORPG games tend to be a couple genres that come to mind that you may want to get the extra ram + the card over the 6800nu. On the other hand, most games out today would benefit from the 6800nu more than the extra ram + 9800p. Personally, I use my computer for much more than gaming and I also tend to play games that use more than the typical game with respect to ram. That is why i have a gig of ram + an overclocked 9800p in my system. (not to mention it was the first card in its class to go cheap for a day when i was looking )

Most people tend to use their computers for more than gaming. This may be a foreign idea, but it is more than true. Newer games, like UT2004, Battlefield 1942, etc. and the whole world of MMRPG's (Which since he is getting Star Wars galaxies, I am guessing he enjoys) do benefit from more RAM. 1GB is quickly becoming standard and I was just trying to make the argument that if it came between upgrading something else in your system that could potentially make up for the performance gap between the two cards, plus positively impact overall system performance, than it would be more worthwhile. I don't believe the performance difference between the vanilla 6800 and the 9800 Pro is enough to justify the price difference, especially when you can find a quality 9800 Pro for about $160.00 in the FS/FT forums! If he wanted a bigger update I would suggest waiting until the X800 Pro and 6800GT come down in price, or even for the 6600GT to come out, which seems like it will be an excellent purchase for the price. If I had to have something right now, I would grab a cheaper card to hold me over until the newness factor of the next gen cards wears off and the prices start to become more affordable.

Again, just my point of view.

 

[reallyscrued]

if u can wait a month or two when the nv40 chips mature, u mite be able to get one that can unlock the last quad unit for an extra 10fps in farcry, then it would REALLY be worth the money.

 

[apoppin]

OP - quick question - what card are u running now?

it is advisable to wait just a bit longer - IF you can.

prices are dropping as the new cards are more available and we also expect the 6600 from nVidia in October (s'pposed to get 8,000+ in 3dMark'03) for a MSRP of $199. Ati will have a 'competing' card - maybe cheaper by then.

At THAT point, you are probably going to see sub$150 9800p and the street-price of the 6800 and GT also drop a bit . . . of course, NOW you can get a 9800p for ~$180 in current Hot Deals

 

[kurisu]

I just bought a Radeon 9800 pro 128mb/256mbit exclusively for Star Wars Galaxies, and I feel very confident in that decision as I know the engine for that game has many issues and would need a major overhaul to really be a mind-blower with the 6800nu. There's a few testiments on the SWG forum about the 6800nu not really impressing a whole hella alot [besides the massive amount of AA you can apply] compared to what people are seeing in Doom 3, Far Cry and such. I say stick with the 9800 pro and jump on that sub 180 deal that apoppin mentioned - it's what I did. I'll post screens if you wish when everything is set up.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: kurisu
I just bought a Radeon 9800 pro 128mb/256mbit exclusively for Star Wars Galaxies, and I feel very confident in that decision as I know the engine for that game is bottlenecked and would need a major overhaul to really be a mind-blower compared to the 6800nu. There's a few testiments on the SWG forum about the 6800nu not really impressing a whole hella alot compared to what people are seeing in Doom 3 and such. I say stick with the 9800 pro and jump on that sub 180 deal that apoppin mentioned - it's what I did. I'll post screens if we wish when everything is set up.

there are a few hardware snobs who thinks the 9800p is a "poor" card . . .

letsee, what's CURRENTLY AVAILABLE (from the best on down):

1) 6800u
2) x800xt (not available so scratch this one)
2) 6800GT
3) x800pro
4) 6800Standard
5) 9800xt/9800pro

What do we have here? the 5th fastest AVAILABLE card for $180 (if you "choose wisely" you can flash it into an XT).

For more than 1/3 more -$100 more - you get a 'bit' more (12-25% more perf)

to see a "big" improvement - but not quite "double" perf you're gonna have to spend more than DOUBLE.

Worth it?

U decide

i still say "wait" if you can

 

[stardust]

What are you running now? If its enough to play Galaxies I'd say wait for the 6600GT and upgrade to a PCI-e system. By that time, nforce4 should debut with SLI capable motherboard, and intel will have some new boards also supporting 1066fsb and such.

If you only want a vid card, I would go for the 6800. It's be best bang for the buck and will still future proof you until the next gen cards.

 

[kurisu]

I had a very limited budget as I've made other higher priority [not to mention large] purchases as of late. apoppin, have you ever played Star Wars Galaxies? It's an odd engine. You'll be surprised with my forthcoming screencaps.

The game is capped at 30fps anyway.

 

[Blastman]

The 6800 is a fast card but the one drawback IMO is that it has only 128MB of memory - and that is going to be tight on a lot of games. In the xbit review, at ?1280x960- 4AA/16AF? in games like

?? ? ? ? ? 6800nu/9800XT

COD ? ? ? ? ? 78.7/83.1
UT4 ? ? ? ? ? 44.6/56.4
Painkiller ? ? ? 82.4/78.3
TRON2.0 ? ? ? 58.5/60.1
Americas Army ? 67.7/70.8
Max Payne2 ? ? 98/106
LOCK on ? ? ? 12/12

?. the 6800nu does fine at 1024x768-4AA/16AF but takes a big performance hit on a lot of games moving up to 1280x960- 4AA/16AF.

Edit: ment 6800 ..not 6800U.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Blastman
The 6800U is a fast card but the one drawback IMO is that it has only 128MB of memory - and that is going to be tight on a lot of games. In the xbit review, at ?1280x960- 4AA/16AF? in games like

?? ? ? ? ? 6800nu/9800XT

COD ? ? ? ? ? 78.7/83.1
UT4 ? ? ? ? ? 44.6/56.4
Painkiller ? ? ? 82.4/78.3
TRON2.0 ? ? ? 58.5/60.1
Americas Army ? 67.7/70.8
Max Payne2 ? ? 98/106
LOCK on ? ? ? 12/12

?. the 6800nu does fine at 1024x768-4AA/16AF but takes a big performance hit on a lot of games moving up to 1280x960- 4AA/16AF.

It's interesting how that review uses 16XAF, when using the more common 8X would have made every one of those benches a 6800NU victory?

Sort of like here at AT where the 6800NU beat the 9800XT in 2/3 of the 12X9 and 16X12 benchmarks by 20% or more?

I have owned a 9700P, a 9800P, and currently own a 6800NU and 6800GT. I have never used 16X AF. I use the "quality" settings for texture sharpness, and the performance hit is too great on all the cards I've owned.

You can make benchmarks look however you want by tailoring them to one card's strengths. For example a review of the 9800XT and 6800NU with all benchmarks done at 16X124X8X would show the cards much closer than they would be in everyday use. The 6800NU128MB of 700MHz memory would limit it at this setting, where the XTs 256MB of faster RAM would not.

Of course, neither of these cards would be set to 16X12 4X8X on many modern games because they're not powerful enough to run that setting well.

Or you could use 16X AF when you know ATIs AF is slightly more efficient.

At up to 12X10 4x8X, the 6800NU should be faster by a good deal most of the time.

Unlike some here have hinted, a 9800P is not a 9800XT. It has half the RAM and must be OCd 10% to be the same speed. 6800NUs can be OCd 10% as well, maintaining the disparity.

9800Ps are not "bad" cards, they are just mid range cards. I don't agree with the "bargain basement" approach to gaming- buying last year's second best card and then settling for low settings in the new games just to save $100.

Some people like 10X7 0X0X, I haven't since 2002 when I bought the 9700P. It's almost 2005 now.

 

[TStep]

One problem I have with the question of:

Is ATIxxx better than nVidiaxxx? or
Is the GF 6800 worth the extra cash over the 9800 Pro?

is the OP usually never states the max resolution that he/she has or is planning to get. Personally, I am at 1280x1024 max (LCD), I am not planning in the near future to get something with a greater resolution before I upgrade video card, therefore, 1600x1200 benchmarks at any fps is irrelavent if I was to ask the same question.

As Rollo basically implied, you should only be looking at what benchmarks apply to your system and go from there. If both cards play within a few % of eachother at Quality setting (important to me, but maybe not others, again it's how you play) and both have acceptable framerates on games I play or plan on playing, I would usually choose the cheaper unless there are features on one card and not the other that would sway my choice.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: kurisu
I had a very limited budget as I've made other higher priority [not to mention large] purchases as of late. apoppin, have you ever played Star Wars Galaxies? It's an odd engine. You'll be surprised with my forthcoming screencaps.

The game is capped at 30fps anyway.

nope, never played it . . . isn't it RPG-type? . . . i am rather "limited" in the types of games i like . . . mostly FPS.

And the OP never does state what resolution he prefers . . . in my case, my 19" CRT limits me to 11x8 at 85Hz . . . there aren't many games that will NOT play on a 9800p at this medium resolution . . . OTOH, if he has a hi-res CRT, he should be looking at a more powerful card and personally, i's skip the 6800Standard - another mid-range card, albeit "next gen" - to go for the much more impressive (and more expensive) 6800-GT.



a 9800p is an EXCELLENT "mid-range" card for 10x7 or 11x8 offering the BEST bang-4-buck at these resolutions.

And buying LAST YEARS top performer usually makes much more sense IF you are on a limited budget . . . it has always worked for me . . . just "choose wisely" . . . . pick a 9800o that is flashable into an XT.

. . . a lot of (insecure) people buy the latest card just to feed their ego . . . you notice them talking crap about other peoples rigs.

:roll:

 

[russr]

Wow a lot of responses already!

Anyway to answer a few questions:
1) I have a nice 19" trinitron monitor and I'd like to play games at 1280X1024, while it would be nice to play games at 1600X1200, that would more be for show than anything else. So ideally playing at 1280X1024 is perfect.

2) I have 512mb of RAM and Star Wars Galaxies is not too happy with that esp. in big cities, so I'll definitely be upgrading the RAM as well. But right now I'm doing it one step at a time. I will upgrade RAM regardless of whether I get the 6800 NU or not.

3) I currently have a geforce 256 32mb (ddr). yes this is the original geforce card and back in summer of 2000 when I bought it, it was the second top performer out there. Anyway given I have this card, SWG is really a stretch for it. The mouse is very hard to move & control because everything is soo slow. If I open my inventory in the game, things slow to a crawl. So hanging with this card sucks..

4) A lot of you are suggesting I wait until this card or that card comes out. In my experience, there's always a better card around the corner that will come out "soon" and make current cards drop in price. I can't wait more than a few weeks. Or if I did, it'd really have to be worth it. From what I understand, the 6600 and the 6600 GT will still not perform as well as the 6800NU as they have 8 pipelines as opposed to 12 and still have 128mb. And how much better than the 9800 pro will they be?

5) Ideally, I'd like to spend around $200. I think spending much more than that is a lot, but when I saw how well the 6800NU did against the 9800xt in DOOM III (almost 1.5x better), I thought if I got that I'd be more future proofed than if I bought the 9800 Pro. Otherwise, i do agree, the performance difference isn't worth the price diff. Also with ATI, it seems like they release a patch everytime a game comes out for their drivers to perform well with it. Or is that just me?

 

[tr1kstanc3]

the 6800nu is faster than the 9800pro (overclocked to 425/730) in 1280x1024 in every game i've tried. this is with 2xAA, 8xAF on both cards. i own both. you can pick up a nice 6800 from newegg for ~$280. the elsa version looks enticing with a nice copper hs/f.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: russr
Wow a lot of responses already!

Anyway to answer a few questions:
1) I have a nice 19" trinitron monitor and I'd like to play games at 1280X1024, while it would be nice to play games at 1600X1200, that would more be for show than anything else. So ideally playing at 1280X1024 is perfect.

2) I have 512mb of RAM and Star Wars Galaxies is not too happy with that esp. in big cities, so I'll definitely be upgrading the RAM as well. But right now I'm doing it one step at a time. I will upgrade RAM regardless of whether I get the 6800 NU or not.

3) I currently have a geforce 256 32mb (ddr). yes this is the original geforce card and back in summer of 2000 when I bought it, it was the second top performer out there. Anyway given I have this card, SWG is really a stretch for it. The mouse is very hard to move & control because everything is soo slow. If I open my inventory in the game, things slow to a crawl. So hanging with this card sucks..

4) A lot of you are suggesting I wait until this card or that card comes out. In my experience, there's always a better card around the corner that will come out "soon" and make current cards drop in price. I can't wait more than a few weeks. Or if I did, it'd really have to be worth it. From what I understand, the 6600 and the 6600 GT will still not perform as well as the 6800NU as they have 8 pipelines as opposed to 12 and still have 128mb. And how much better than the 9800 pro will they be?

5) Ideally, I'd like to spend around $200. I think spending much more than that is a lot, but when I saw how well the 6800NU did against the 9800xt in DOOM III (almost 1.5x better), I thought if I got that I'd be more future proofed than if I bought the 9800 Pro. Otherwise, i do agree, the performance difference isn't worth the price diff. Also with ATI, it seems like they release a patch everytime a game comes out for their drivers to perform well with it. Or is that just me?

1) 12x10? . . . really straining the 9800p . . . will manage in all older games (through Max Payne II) and many newer games but w/o AA/AF; i'd say zero probs at 10x7 and few at 11x8 even with aa/af

2) More RAM? very useful to have 1 GB in many games . . .
Unnecessary for Doom III

3) Upgrading from an original GF?! Most of your games are 4x6 now . . . you will get BLOWN-AWAY by (even) a 9800p

4) I do mean wait "a few weeks"; we are talking about a SIGnificant drop in PRICES . . . if you NEED it now, doN'T wait . . . but realize what's happening in the market.

5) ~$200? your choice is CLEAR . . . it's $180 now - check hot deals (and put that $20 toward NEXT year's or the year after's upgrade . . . )

the 6800 is NOT "more future proof" - except marginally . . . the next Doom-engine game is a MINIMUM of a year away . . . the 9800p will work fine till then

ATI's drivers are highly regarded - now (the past 2 years)

 

[russr]

Will the 9800 Pro be able to easily allow me to play SWG at 1280x1024 with some AA and AF? If not, then it's probably not worth it because SWG is over a year old game.

I play my current games like Jedi Academy at 1024x768 on a gf256 32mb ddr w/o any problems I don't turn on AA or AF of course. I don't want to buy a brand new card for $200 only to still be stuck at 1024x768.

The main question remains: How much better will the gf 6800 nu be over the 9800 pro in SWg at 1280x1024 with AA and AF?

Also, what is the purpose of waiting? Will the GF 6800 NU really come down much in price? What maybe $10?

 

[Alptraum]

For SWG specifically if getting the 6800 means you wait longer to get more RAM I would recommend getting the 9800pro and and more RAM. I don't play that game anymore but when I did with a 9800pro AIW and 1gig of RAM it ran great. RAM is very important for that game and you really could use a gig. When I played it used somewhere in the 950meg or so range of RAM so if you upgrade to a gig of RAM you will definetly see an improvement, upgrading to a gig and a 9800pro would be a great step up for that game. A bigger upgrade then just getting a 6800.

If you could swing the 6800 and RAM though I would probably do that. But I think for that game its pretty crucial to have 1gig of RAM.

EDIT = Just saw you posted again. To answer your question = Yes the 9800pro will allow you to play at that res with AF. I think the engine had some sort of issue with AA though making it not usable. I can't really remember though since its been a long time. But thats not the cards fault. But you can run lots of detail at 1280x1024 (thats the native res of my LCD and what I played SWG at).

Like I said, for this game specifically if getting a 9800pro means you can get RAM now as well, go that route. If you can get the RAM and a 6800 go that way. But for the biggest improvement I think you need one of the cards and the RAM.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: russr
Will the 9800 Pro be able to easily allow me to play SWG at 1280x1024 with some AA and AF? If not, then it's probably not worth it because SWG is over a year old game.

I play my current games like Jedi Academy at 1024x768 on a gf256 32mb ddr w/o any problems I don't turn on AA or AF of course. I don't want to buy a brand new card for $200 only to still be stuck at 1024x768.

The main question remains: How much better will the gf 6800 nu be over the 9800 pro in SWg at 1280x1024 with AA and AF?

Also, what is the purpose of waiting? Will the GF 6800 NU really come down much in price? What maybe $10?

Maybe $40-50 less when the 6600 comes out

and the 9800p should be sub-$150

since SWG is so important to you - edit the sub title to ask "Will a 9800p play SWG at 12x10?"

Someone who has both can answer much better than i . . . anyway WHATEVER card you get, is gonna be a HUGE JUMP over what you currently have.

If you can AFFORD the eXtra $100 for the 6800 over the 9800p, go for it; if not, the 9800p is NOT a bad card to "settle for" (generally).

and i'm OFF to work . . . late