Double Dip Recession in Sight?

[sandorski]

Many mistakes were made during the Great Depression, so far all but 1(Protectionism) has been repeated since the recent Recession. Both Europe and the US have fallen far short of the needed Stimulus and they are fixated on digging the hole deeper.

 

[Doppel]

Has already severely double dipped except for government debt spending. So the question is more: will the government debt spending cut back enough to bring us back to a negative GDP? And the answer is probably. But it really doesn't matter except psychologically. The economy is totally depressed anyway and without borrowing from the future would severely contract in the immediate term.

 

[Infohawk]

But damn, it seems like there's a lot of economic activity going on.

Our business (engineering) has picked up to the point that we're more worried about meeting deadlines than about meeting payroll. So what's going on? Are we splitting into an employed middle class and an unemployed class of ballotmen? Is our huge trade deficit defeating our recovery by sending money out of the country as quickly as it is spent?

Something just doesn't seem right.

Yes, we still have an active economy. The question is what direction are we going in. And for the reasons Engineer mentioned, things don't look like they're going in the right direction.

I have not heard of one good reason that employment would rise meaningfully in the near or long-term future. With high unemployment and underemployment we're not going to be able to sustain our consumer economy.

First it was the industrial workers who lost their jobs and nobody cared because most people had their office jobs and just told the industrial workers to get a college degree. Now it's been the generic office workers who can't find jobs even with a degree. Many professionals are going to suffer the same fate next (we see it in some industries) if something doesn't turn around.

 

[Zebo]

:whiste:

Inevitable. Why create jobs in USA where Americans are overpaid over benefited and under worked? You'd have to be pretty stupid as a capital holder. We faked much prosperity for 30 years with debt but that can't go on forever as banks told us after housing crash (try and buy a high rise condo these-days) and today govt fakes it even more so which can't go on forever and isn't. Without good paying jobs there is no demand and business suffers. Lucky I sell booze to drown peoples destitution and misery in cheaply. I feeling pretty good about outlook.

 

[dmcowen674]

Why create jobs in USA where Americans are overpaid over benefited and under worked?

You'd have to be pretty stupid as a capital holder.

Lucky I sell booze to drown peoples destitution and misery in cheaply.

I feeling pretty good about outlook.

Wow, at least you are out in the open about your hate for America.

Hopefully America and Americans turn it around soon and you won't be so happy.

 

[Infohawk]

Wow, at least you are out in the open about your hate for America.

I think Zebo's post went over your head. Read his sig.

 

[Engineer]

Wow, at least you are out in the open about your hate for America.

Hopefully America and Americans turn it around soon and you won't be so happy.

Zebo seems to understand what's going on...I don't think he's advocating that it continue. He knows the American lower and middle classes have been sold out from under us. Just a matter of time before the foundation collapses letting the entire building fall.

 

[Doppel]

Wow, at least you are out in the open about your hate for America.

Hopefully America and Americans turn it around soon and you won't be so happy.

You are retarded.

 

[Craig234]

Inevitable. Why create jobs in USA where Americans are overpaid over benefited and under worked?

2010 US companies:

1.4 million jobs created overseas. Under 1 million jobs created in US.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

What else do you expect from global austerity too soon after a big economic disaster? We tried it after the first half of the great depression and you know how well that turned out.

Austerity measure didn't cause the issued faced by the PIIGS and in fact it was austerity measure taken by nations like Germany that ensured they didn't follow the same path of the PIIGS. However the obligations by Germans to bail out the deadbeats PIIGS because they are part of the EU is what is causing issues. So this liberal agenda to demonize austerity measures taken by responsible European nations as somehow being the focal point of the global debt crisis fueling the economic downturn faced in the US or other 1st world nations is preposterous and out right laughable.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

:whiste:

Inevitable. Why create jobs in USA where Americans are overpaid over benefited and under worked? You'd have to be pretty stupid as a capital holder. We faked much prosperity for 30 years with debt but that can't go on forever as banks told us after housing crash (try and buy a high rise condo these-days) and today govt fakes it even more so which can't go on forever and isn't. Without good paying jobs there is no demand and business suffers. Lucky I sell booze to drown peoples destitution and misery in cheaply. I feeling pretty good about outlook.

Actually you should go back 40 years ago to about 1971 when the first brick of our problems were laid today and set in motion when we officially dumped the gold standard. Bubble, bust, bubble bust, bubble bust...oh shit we can't shuffle the deck chairs of debt anymore to continue the illusion well that sucks.

 

[Jhhnn]

Actually you should go back 40 years ago to about 1971 when the first brick of our problems were laid today and set in motion when we officially dumped the gold standard. Bubble, bust, bubble bust, bubble bust...oh shit we can't shuffle the deck chairs of debt anymore to continue the illusion well that sucks.

Not accurate at all. Gold had nothing to do with it- deregulation did. When S&L's were deregulated, we got boom, bust & bailout. When derivative trading got into full swing, we got near collapse with the LTCM fiasco. The answer, of course, was further deregulation and broadening of the powers of bankers to create and exploit derivatives, resulting in the ownership society & its collapse.

We also had boom/bust cycles long before 1971, with 1929 being among them... a time when the gold standard was in full force.

 

[blackangst1]

2010 US companies:

1.4 million jobs created overseas. Under 1 million jobs created in US.

Not according to the white house and other reports. Number is 2.5-3.6 million.

 

[Engineer]

Not according to the white house and other reports. Number is 2.5-3.6 million.

Link?


Is that "Net" jobs or "Gross" jobs?

 

[blackangst1]

Link?


Is that "Net" jobs or "Gross" jobs?

Here's one...here's another...and another...how many would you like?

 

[Darwin333]

Yes, that seems to be the case. In part because things are just so badly broken, in part because Republicans have successfully obstructed, in part because Obama has had a more corporatist approach than a Democrat should (than anyone should). Republicans are behaving like winning the election is all that matters, by recognizing that the single best predictor of who will win is the economy.

I think you're right that there's a risk that the 2012 president might face a worse situation than Obama did.

Coincidentally, things got a lot worse for three years after 1929 crash until FDR was elected; if Bush had been president for three years after the 2008 crash, Republicans would get even more blame, just as Hoover did. Instead, this bad period has been under Obama taking office right after the crash.

Actually the "fault" lies with that dirty bastard math. Eventually the math always wins and right now its about to kick our asses. Everything you just stated is simply a reason as to why its kicking our ass now and not later (and worse).

 

[Darwin333]

:whiste:

Inevitable. Why create jobs in USA where Americans are overpaid over benefited and under worked? You'd have to be pretty stupid as a capital holder. We faked much prosperity for 30 years with debt but that can't go on forever as banks told us after housing crash (try and buy a high rise condo these-days) and today govt fakes it even more so which can't go on forever and isn't. Without good paying jobs there is no demand and business suffers. Lucky I sell booze to drown peoples destitution and misery in cheaply. I feeling pretty good about outlook.

The irony in your post is that we are the drunks that think we can fix our drinking problem with another shot of whiskey.

 

[sarsipias1234]

Ponzi?

 

[Fingolfin269]

Any time I enter a P&N thread regarding the economy I feel like I should do nothing but put guns & ammo, canned goods, other survival gear in a protected/defendable area of the house and never leave again.

 

[sandorski]

Austerity measure didn't cause the issued faced by the PIIGS and in fact it was austerity measure taken by nations like Germany that ensured they didn't follow the same path of the PIIGS. However the obligations by Germans to bail out the deadbeats PIIGS because they are part of the EU is what is causing issues. So this liberal agenda to demonize austerity measures taken by responsible European nations as somehow being the focal point of the global debt crisis fueling the economic downturn faced in the US or other 1st world nations is preposterous and out right laughable.

Negative. You are correct that Austerity didn't cause the problem regarding the PIIGS, but you are completely missing the point as to why Austerity is the wrong stance to take at this time. We have a Global Economy that is struggling as it is, Austerity merely makes the situation worse by decreasing Economic Activity further.

 

[Atreus21]

I don't want to live in interesting times anymore. I'm happy just going to work, and going home to my family.

 

[momeNt]

Not accurate at all. Gold had nothing to do with it- deregulation did. When S&L's were deregulated, we got boom, bust & bailout. When derivative trading got into full swing, we got near collapse with the LTCM fiasco. The answer, of course, was further deregulation and broadening of the powers of bankers to create and exploit derivatives, resulting in the ownership society & its collapse.

We also had boom/bust cycles long before 1971, with 1929 being among them... a time when the gold standard was in full force.

Who is going to regulate banks when the US Central Bank does exactly the same thing the banks do? They expand credit and create the boom/bust cycles that you blame on regulation, because your short-sighted views only allow you to see the banksters as the cause of the problem which would lend itself towards regulation but the problem is systemic with the root being credit money created by US government and Federal Reserve which also lends itself towards the inflationary tendencies of banks. Thus providing us with no answer just useless regulation rhetoric you spout off in every thread trying to bring down capitalism.

 

[IGBT]

George Soros says it's already here. The obama economic quagmire is in full effect.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Oh woe is me wake me up when the sky actually falls

I'm getting tired of the same old worn out gloom and doom prognostications by the Republicans played in an endless loop.

The liberals will kill your grandma
The liberals will crash the economy again
The liberals are coming to get your guns
The liberals will raise your taxes

and repeat

and repeat

and repeat

 

[werepossum]

Look at the people and the cars they are driving.

The ones you see out and shopping still have new clothes and new cars and they still have a decent job.

The ones you don't see are the ones with old clothes and old beat up cars and are the unemployed and UNDERemployed.

Look closely at the people.

There's some truth to that. However the places we shop (WalMart, Costco, Penny's, Sears) are hardly upscale boutiques. About the only thing below those are Big Lott's and thrift stores.

The media loves to report on bad news, which tends to magnify everyone's concern far out of proportion to the actual seriousness of an issue. Shark attacks, pretty white girls getting kidnapped, terrorism, etc, the media loves picking out stories like this. And people view the news as a representative sample of what's going on, despite the fact that the stories are picked because they are unique and interesting.

And with the economy, you have the added problem of the Republicans having the core political strategy of convincing everyone that the economy is going to hell in a handbasket.

Your first paragraph is spot-on. As to your second paragraph, that's exactly what the Republicans say about the Democrats when the Pubbies hold the White House. Both parties find it easier to convince the voters that the other guy is doing a crappy job than that they will do a good job.