Doomsday clock moved to 3 minutes to midnight

[88keys]

It is stunning how dumb and wrong someone can be about a subject and still have so much conviction when talking about it. It's almost impressive.

KT

Ignorance and adamant conviction often go hand in hand

 

[KeithTalent]

Ignorance and adamant conviction often go hand in hand

That does often appear to be the case. I flip through P&N on occasion and it's rampant in there. D:

KT

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Ignorance and adamant conviction often go hand in hand

Science!

 

[unokitty]

Al Gore develops $90 trillion scheme to rebuild every city to get rid of cars

Former Vice President Al Gore and former Mexican President Felipe Calderon have proposed that global warming should be dealt with by banning all automobiles in urban areas. The scheme would mean spending $90 trillion to redesign all cities to make mass transit and walking viable.

There see how easy it can be to save the planet?
Economical as well. Can any other politician save the planet for less than 90 trillion dollars?

Uno

 

[darkewaffle]

this thread is heating up!

blame global warming?

 

[maddogchen]

this thread is heating up!



blame global warming?

No, that was just me farting on you

 

[Ferzerp]

This thread is retarded and I am not going to even comment on it, but this graph that you have posted appears to suggest that previous to 1980 the ocean was storing negative heat. Such a thing is preposterous.

I can only assume there is some missing information that actually explains what this graph is, because as it is presented, it is completely nonsensical.

 

[smackababy]

This thread is retarded and I am not going to even comment on it, but this graph that you have posted appears to suggest that previous to 1980 the ocean was storing negative heat. Such a thing is preposterous.

I can only assume there is some missing information that actually explains what this graph is, because as it is presented, it is completely nonsensical.

But the line is going up! It has to be right! Global Warming is killing us all!

 

[Gibsons]

It's just that the boujwa Liberals are inconvenienced by people like me and you.

Oh my goodness.

One of the best reasons to keep reading this forum.

 

[Ruptga]

This thread is retarded and I am not going to even comment on it, but this graph that you have posted appears to suggest that previous to 1980 the ocean was storing negative heat. Such a thing is preposterous.

I can only assume there is some missing information that actually explains what this graph is, because as it is presented, it is completely nonsensical.

Or maybe the graph is normed to 1980 levels, and the negative numbers show years where the oceans' total heat was whatever amount less than the 1980 baseline. Yeah that's obviously retarded, the whole thing was definitely made up to sucker libruls and third graders.

 

[Ferzerp]

It could be, which would fall in to the "missing information that actually explains what this graph is", but as it is presented, it is meaningless.

Any time you present data, you should not have such ambiguity.

 

[Paratus]

This thread is retarded and I am not going to even comment on it, but this graph that you have posted appears to suggest that previous to 1980 the ocean was storing negative heat. Such a thing is preposterous.

I can only assume there is some missing information that actually explains what this graph is, because as it is presented, it is completely nonsensical.

NOAA sets a baseline as the 0 point. I think it was set in the 70's. I'd have to go back and find it. It should be obvious that trend is up, showing an ever increasing amount of energy stored in the ocean. Or roughly 20x10^23 joules of energy over the last 40 years or so. Ergo the Earth is warming. Couple that with the slightly lower output of the Sun and it's very obvious that the warming is mostly man-made.

 

[Ruptga]

Ferzerp, I'm not saying you're wrong per se, but you have to adjust your expectations according to the medium. This isn't a NOAA presentation, this is an off-topic forum where nerds come to argue. I had to do an image search to find the context (and what I found was technical enough that I'm only 95% sure I got it right), but I still found some context within five minutes.

 

[Paratus]

Ferzerp, I'm not saying you're wrong per se, but you have to adjust your expectations according to the medium. This isn't a NOAA presentation, this is an off-topic forum where nerds come to argue. I had to do an image search to find the context (and what I found was technical enough that I'm only 95% sure I got it right), but I still found some context within five minutes.

In general I've found while arguing this topic in P&N I'm expected to provide accurate detailed informantion from governement or peer reviewed sources to the "skeptic" crowd. They will on occasion link to a blog post by a contrarian scientist or more likely an Op-Ed in the Wall Street Journal.

That's not suprising since "skeptic" crowd really doesn't have any scientific data to post anyway.

 

[Printer Bandit]

 

[Paratus]

Ignorance and adamant conviction often go hand in hand

That does often appear to be the case. I flip through P&N on occasion and it's rampant in there. D:

KT

Science!

What's even worse was an article I read on Ars last week. You would think education would lesson the phenomenon but in paritsans they found the more educated the more people were able to rationalize away facts that didn't support their partisanship.

They used climate change for republicans and the reduction in violence after the surge in Iraq for democrats.

We're screwed.

 

[Ruptga]

What's even worse was an article I read on Ars last week. You would think education would lesson the phenomenon but in paritsans they found the more educated the more people were able to rationalize away facts that didn't support their partisanship.

They used climate change for republicans and the reduction in violence after the surge in Iraq for democrats.

We're screwed.

Sometimes I marvel at how we've made it 600 years without a dark age. The underlying problem is that being informed and being rational are only loosely correlated. Ignorance is relatively easy to fix, getting people to set aside their emotions and think rationally (consistently and constantly) is far harder. I'm the least emotional person I've ever known, and I still have to pull myself back for a better perspective fairly regularly. Most of us do alright on at least a handful of subjects though.

 

[T9D]

https://chaturbate.com/female-cams/

 

[Ruptga]

Except your graph flattens around 1950 while Earth's average temperature has continued to rise. Plot them together and it becomes obvious that solar activity is only one part of the equation.


Oh and look at that, the IPCC even included solar variability in their findings.

That took me ~5 minutes on Google, what's your excuse for posting crap that's so obviously... incomplete?

Edit: I would have a much easier time giving climate skeptics the benefit of the doubt if all their arguments didn't boil down to "yeah but it's really this one OBVIOUS thing here. Boy we sure are so much smarter than all those scientists who never even thought of THAT, praise Jesus for common sense." Protip: good science is actually really hard to do, and only on very rare occasions does a "single mom find a weird old trick" that actually works and isn't something someone else has already done. The common people are good for a lot of things, science isn't one of them.

Further edit: And your edit proves nothing. You dismiss findings you don't like because they're ridiculous, like you know better than entire communities of professionals that have been designed specifically to find and correct their own errors, and have been working at this for decades. That is ridiculous. That's almost a textbook example of an appeal to authority, but they have the research to back it up. What do you have? Intuitions, what-ifs, and implications of a vast global conspiracy.

 

[T9D]

https://chaturbate.com/female-cams/

 

[88keys]

Sometimes I marvel at how we've made it 600 years without a dark age. The underlying problem is that being informed and being rational are only loosely correlated. Ignorance is relatively easy to fix, getting people to set aside their emotions and think rationally (consistently and constantly) is far harder. I'm the least emotional person I've ever known, and I still have to pull myself back for a better perspective fairly regularly. Most of us do alright on at least a handful of subjects though.

This kind of why I stopped giving a shit about global warming. Human beings often lack in foresight and only care to implement solutions after the fact. At this point shit is gonna have to get pretty fucking bad in order to get people to accept that man made climate change is real at which point it will be too late.

The most logical solution as I see it is to adapt.

 

[Paratus]

Nope sunspots have not been steady, look at the larger picture not your cherry picked section. We've been hearing for decades of sun spot peaks. They are hitting peaks right now. Do you really think that peak sunspots isn't going to effect anything else? Damn right it's going to. Look at that nice huge upswing from that valley in 1900. Seems to coincide nicely with the weather changes. Come on man, the sun is the whole means of our weather and life and it's constantly changing too. It's like having an oven with a variable fluctuating heating elements and going "dur, it's the cookies in the oven that the people put in that is changing the temperature so much and ruining the oven"

The earth has always, aways changing. It will always be dynamic weather, ups and downs. That is a fact. There whole claim of man mad climate change is that it's happening to fast. That's basically their argument. That's ridiculous. They may try to say it but they really don't know that it hasn't happened this same way before and fluctuated like this. I bet it has many times, or maybe we are just in a new type of cycle.

I'm not saying we shouldn't clean up the earth, cause we should. Or that some day hundreds of years from now if unchecked we won't really change the climate, I'm saying they really don't have proof that man is the cause of any change right now on a global scale. And that people are using it for their own gain and have ulterior motives. And that some of the data can be fabricated even.

Sunspots? Do you even understand the plot? Here's a hint those peaks in the graph are when we have the most sun spots and more energy reaches us

That plot I provided is the incident solar radiation that the earth recieves. It is the energy that drives the climate and it has been on a steady cycle for the last 40 years while the land, air and ocean have all gained thermal energy. The increase in temperature is not due to an increase in solar output. The Earth doesn't cool when the solar output drops.

We have measured an energy imbalance and the Earth is warming, even while the sun had a longer than usual down cycle in the 00's. (the part when there are less sun spots and less energy reaches us).


Please do a little reading.

 

[Paratus]

Yes but as you see very well that it's followed it very nicely. Proving how well the sun activity is so closely matched and linke. So why did it keep going up? Could be many reasons, maybe it had already melted enough snow and ice at the poles, maybe the extra warmth had allowed for more growth of forests that affected the planet temps, maybe that peaks had allowed for wind changes to alter. Maybe the crust and oceans had retained more heat and altered weather for a few decades after. Could be many reasons.

All the reasons are included in then IPCC reports. Natural forcings should probably be cooling us but the ever increasing blanket of CO2 more than over rides those forcings.

 

[Paratus]

Except your graph flattens around 1950 while Earth's average temperature has continued to rise. Plot them together and it becomes obvious that solar activity is only one part of the equation.


Oh and look at that, the IPCC even included solar variability in their findings.

That took me ~5 minutes on Google, what's your excuse for posting crap that's so obviously... incomplete?

I would have a much easier time giving climate skeptics the benefit of the doubt if all their arguments didn't boil down to "yeah but it's really this one OBVIOUS thing here. Boy we sure are so much smarter than all those scientists who never even thought of THAT, praise Jesus for common sense." Protip: good science is actually really hard to do, and only on very rare occasions does a "single mom find a weird old trick" that actually works and isn't something someone else has already done. The common people are good for a lot of things, science isn't one of them.

:thumbsup:

 

[Ruptga]

This kind of why I stopped giving a shit about global warming. Human beings often lack in foresight and only care to implement solutions after the fact. At this point shit is gonna have to get pretty fucking bad in order to get people to accept that man made climate change is real at which point it will be too late.

The most logical solution as I see it is to adapt.

I tend to agree, but I'll still support attempts to fix it. At the same time, I'm fully expecting that we'll, for the most part, do exactly like you said. Both of us could still be surprised though, and I wouldn't mind being wrong in this case.