Doom

[Regs]

I assume that the demos (including the one in "Hell") we watched from E3 were running with currently-available hardware, maybe a GTX 980? Or perhaps it was an SLi setup (or it wasn't either, and was instead running on RADEON hardware). It's just what I imagine though, I don't think that they've given any official information about that yet (if anyone knows that they did, please point us to the source info).

However, it comes out in 2016 (only if they do keep that release date intact, since they can of course delay it for all we know). And next year we'll have a new architecture for GPUs (well, at least NVIDIA that I know of, namely the GeForce "Pascal" 1000 series). In the meantime we'll probably have one or two extra revisions of existing cards (beyond the recent 980Ti one, for "mid-range" products), plus of course a new architecture. I'm confident that it will run smoothly next year on current hardware.

My reasoning is that - ultimately - DOOM will be a ported game to the PC (as abhorrent as it sounds, but such is the "new" reality of things for video gaming, regardless of what the very name DOOM means to PC gaming in and of itself), and if it "has to" run smoothly on the PS4 and the XBOX One, then it will surely (and easily) run just as well on "typical modern gaming PCs" next year (even if you'd happen to have 2 or 3 years-old hardware).

The new Radeon series looks beastly, and sure enough Nvidia will have just the same. Plus Windows 10 with DX12 should help with performance immensely. Though, with all that said, I don't think I am seeing what you're seeing from the demo. The graphics don't look all that polished. It looks slightly better with the character models, specular effects, and player animations, but besides from that the textures look flat and murky.

 

[moonbogg]

OMG I can't believe how awesome that game looks. But we can't expect the game to be just like that. They will hook you with awesome reveals like this and then gimp the game later.

 

[cmdrdredd]

OMG I can't believe how awesome that game looks. But we can't expect the game to be just like that. They will hook you with awesome reveals like this and then gimp the game later.

Bot sure about that, I think we are seeing what we will play. Time will tell. It's a year away

 

[DeadFred]

This again...?

In case you hadn't noticed this is the PC Gaming Forum.......so yeah, that again. It was like watching a blind mouse working its way through a maze towards a chunk of cheese, bumping into walls and shit.

Edit: PS- Anything to do with consoles should be mercilessly mocked, scorned, and shunned in here!

 

[cmdrdredd]

In case you hadn't noticed this is the PC Gaming Forum.......so yeah, that again. It was like watching a blind mouse working its way through a maze towards a chunk of cheese, bumping into walls and shit.

Edit: PS- Anything to do with consoles should be mercilessly mocked, scorned, and shunned in here!

You act like nobody on PC uses a controller. Besides that, your attitude is what's wrong with PC gamers today.

 

[Phanuel]

Controllers blow for fast paced FPS. And it's been proven time and time again when you put pros up against each other using KBM vs Controller.

Look at the weapon switching, you bring up a wheel and then find what you're after on a controller. Versus the PC where it's typically bound to a single keystroke for a particular weapon.

The aiming is very lethargic and imprecise and aim assisted heavily, usually tied to an ADS mechanic that snaps it to the nearest target. Cannot spin or look anywhere near as quickly as a mouse user can.

It's fine for console vs console play. But for something that originated on the PC and was perfected in the Quake 1 to Quake 3/UT era, modern non-realistic shooters feel like everything is in a dream where you can't move properly.

 

[Grooveriding]

I hope they keep the gameplay of having lots of secret rooms and ways to access them. I didn't see any of that in the reveal they did unless I missed it.

I'd also like to see the maps designed in a way that it's possible to become lost. I don't want to find it turns out to be an on rails linear trip through the game.

 

[BSim500]

You act like nobody on PC uses a controller. Besides that, your attitude is what's wrong with PC gamers today.

"How does it play on a keyb + mouse" and "does it have Doom-like gameplay in general" are entirely valid questions that many would like an answer to. To many of us, the Doom franchise is about a fast-paced "twitch" shooter (as were many 1990's "run at 30mph and blow someone's *ss away before rocket jumping up onto a secret platform, realism be damned" FPS's) facing down a sh*tload of enemies (6-50) simultaneously in a semi-non-linear maze map with secrets, etc. How many people played original ROTT, Quake 1-3 or Serious Sam with gamepads optimized for slower paced, cover based modern shooters? No-one (or at least no-one that didn't get totally mauled in multi-player with 0-76 win-loss ratio's). As Phanuel said, controllers on PC work best on slower paced action adventure games. Take away auto-aim and it's just painful to watch someone get mauled so badly and turn so slowly (which is precisely why consoles use auto-aim extensively in the first place). You'd have to be pretty naive (or young and forgiven for missing 1990's "twitch" FPS's) to think preferring K&M over controllers for fast paced games is down to "snobbery" or "attitude". It's basic physiology ("wrist flicks" are faster and more precise than "thumbstick scrolling" for turning / aiming). This is nothing new and has been well known and proven again & again for years.

Can you move & turn like this with a controller without auto-aim or having the pace of the game slowed down for the "modern casual" gamer? See the multitude of rapid "flicks" resulting in fast turns (eg, 4:31-4:35 where he changes direction twice faster than most people with a controller can do a single 180 U-turn). This is what people want to know : is that Doom 4 trailer truly representative of the whole game or just a slower paced intro which picks up speed later on? Can a K&M be played faster? I counted about 17 kills over the first 3.5 minutes in the video (1 per 12 seconds). That's "slow as treacle" compared to the original Doom's which was often averaging 1 kill per 1.5 seconds (edit: I just tested Doom2 in GZDoom and counted 47 kills in 69s with just pistol & shutgun). Doom 4 has literally 8x slower gameplay in terms of enemy body count.

Likewise, the most simultaneous enemies I counted in the Doom 4 trailer was 3-4 (once) and mostly a constant stream of just 1-2 on screen vs a regular 12-30 odd in Doom 2 even by level 2. Many of the weaker enemies seem to have been turned into "bullet sponges" too, and the impression I got was "fewer stronger" enemies was an attempt at hiding the fact they had to slow the pace down. It's a well known design trick for 'designed for controller' FPS's. The map also looked very linear, no secrets, etc. You have to pause the game to switch weapons (again presumably due to there being no "1-0 instant shortcuts" on controllers and the need to use slow to select "weapon wheels").

Personally I hope the pace and style of Doom reboot is fast like the first two or ROTT, and not simply "CoD with UAC & hell textures and pretty melee kill micro-cutscenes based on Brutal Doom but at 12.5% of the pace for controllers". We'll have to wait and see what the final product is like, but GFX aside, I'm really not impressed with Doom 4's gameplay / gunplay / pacing or buying into the hype at all. The ROTT / Shadow Warriow / Serious Sam FE/SE HD reboots are 10x more "fun" than this demo looked in terms of body count per minute or fluidity of gameplay. :\

 

[cmdrdredd]

Controllers blow for fast paced FPS. And it's been proven time and time again when you put pros up against each other using KBM vs Controller.

Look at the weapon switching, you bring up a wheel and then find what you're after on a controller. Versus the PC where it's typically bound to a single keystroke for a particular weapon.

The aiming is very lethargic and imprecise and aim assisted heavily, usually tied to an ADS mechanic that snaps it to the nearest target. Cannot spin or look anywhere near as quickly as a mouse user can.

It's fine for console vs console play. But for something that originated on the PC and was perfected in the Quake 1 to Quake 3/UT era, modern non-realistic shooters feel like everything is in a dream where you can't move properly.

This isn't quake and they aren't showing you mp. So I dunno what you're arguing now.

To everyone trying to give me a history lesson, save it. I played doom when it was shareware and you traded floppy disks cause the internet mostly consisted of BBS on dialup. I know how the mouse controls worked.

 

[Phanuel]

So no refuting that KBM is what we want to see instead of slowed down, measurably worse controller schemes?

 

[DeadFred]

You act like nobody on PC uses a controller. Besides that, your attitude is what's wrong with PC gamers today.

No one in their right mind uses a controller to play a FPS on the PC, and if they do, they look like the moron playing in that video. And I think it's your type of attitude that is the problem with PC gamers today.

 

[DeadFred]

This isn't quake and they aren't showing you mp. So I dunno what you're arguing now.

To everyone trying to give me a history lesson, save it. I played doom when it was shareware and you traded floppy disks cause the internet mostly consisted of BBS on dialup. I know how the mouse controls worked.

Well then its time to get back to your roots!

 

[Artorias]

Generally when you show a demo you need to make it watchable, footage of a standard KBM player isn't exactly easy to watch especially if its hectic, you're going to get a lot of jerky motions which is not what they want show, the footage needs to be presentable.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Generally when you show a demo you need to make it watchable, footage of a standard KBM player isn't exactly easy to watch especially if its hectic, you're going to get a lot of jerky motions which is not what they want show, the footage needs to be presentable.

That's a good point, especially if you intend to show the environment and detail in the textures.

 

[Raduque]

So no refuting that KBM is what we want to see instead of slowed down, measurably worse controller schemes?

Who played the original doom with a MOUSE? I don't think my mouse even worked in Doom, even when I had enough ram to load the mouse driver in DOS.

I don't know about you, but I played Doom using the arrows, CTRL and Space.

 

[BSim500]

Who played the original doom with a MOUSE? I don't think my mouse even worked in Doom, even when I had enough ram to load the mouse driver in DOS.

I don't know about you, but I played Doom using the arrows, CTRL and Space.

Many Doom source ports (Doomsday, GZDoom, etc) have long added mouselook (and jumping), along with widescreen, higher resolutions (up to 4K), HD texture packs, anti-aliasing, bloom, ambient occlusion, etc, for all 3 "Doom Engine" games (Doom, Heretic & Hexen), and I think it was John Romero who said in an anniversary vid (playing via Doomsday source port) that it would be perfectly representative of what Doom would be like if released for the first time a few years later on more powerful hardware. It's hardly as if 2015 games are going to come without mouselook and require a 486 with 4MB RAM, MS DOS 5 + config.sys & autoexec.bat editing for that "ultra retro" experience.

What people want to know is how well keyb + mouse coding is on the PC in general or how the gameplay has been altered to accommodate controllers (perfectly understandable after putting up with years of sh*tty ports in general). Why this is suddenly deemed "attitude" for a fast paced FPS franchise reboot says a lot about the state and general low expectations of modern cross platform PC games...

 

[Sulaco]

Who played the original doom with a MOUSE? I don't think my mouse even worked in Doom, even when I had enough ram to load the mouse driver in DOS.

I don't know about you, but I played Doom using the arrows, CTRL and Space.

Well, yeah, but that's...disingenuous at best.

The original DOOM and Wolfenstein only needed arrows and one plane of aiming because firing your gun at enemies on a different level would hit anyway. You could fire your shotgun at an enemy 5-10 feet above or below you, and as long as the X axis lined up, it registered a hit.

That was ok in 1994. That doesn't fly in anything approaching the modern era with fully realized X and Y axes.
In that case, yes, the KB+M is indisputably superior.

 

[zir_blazer]

What makes the original Doom and Doom 2 great is mostly the fact that the meta game evolved in an impressive way that trascendent the original gameplay. It wasn't THAT fast paced, it became so after using the Mouse became mainstream and the introduction of Always Run. Then ridiculous asymetric fights became the norm.
Still, what makes Doom legendary is that it is possibily the first game with competitions where people showcased their skills by recording demos, and the ever present community creating WADs, WADs, and even more WADs, which made Doom replayability pretty much infinite. Look around how many post 2000 FPS were, and how many had communities that are as strong for Doom. If you try to search for content or maps for Doom 3 and Quake 4, you will figure out how easy modern games are forgotten.

 

[Regs]

After playing Wolfenstein - The New Order, I now know what to fully expect from this game. Same pace, same type of gore, same type of movement. It really is a rehashed version of the game. Kind of disappointed.

 

[thegimp03]

Having been a huge fan of the Doom and Quake series, I'm excited for this to come out. I remember getting a beta version of Doom 3 back in the early 2000s and it brought my PC back then to its knees and crashed it when a Demon started chasing me around. Played through D3 again a few years ago on a much more capable computer with fully maxed graphics and it still looked great.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

You act like nobody on PC uses a controller. Besides that, your attitude is what's wrong with PC gamers today.

Yes you're right, honesty is a scourge we should stamp out along with any and all attempts to strive for quality, these are awful things, how dare he?

 

[DigDog]

i'm totally with BSim; if you play with a controller,you are not even breaking the surface of what a shooter is.

anyway ..

i'll play it, not sure i will enjoy it.

doom3 gave me plenty of reasons to be weary of what this game will be like.

also, you might not be aware of the fact, but id have been severely dumbing down QuakeLive (the latest, F2P incarnation of Quake3) for steam players; i know they are different games, but Q3 was their pinnacle of shooters, zero-compromise game: untouchable.

So with a franchise like doom, singleplayer, easier, vs mobs, and already ruined once, i'm going to wait until the game is out, to get excited.

And give me WAD support or gtfo.

 

[DeadFred]

Q3 was their pinnacle of shooters, zero-compromise game: untouchable.

:thumbsup:

Q3 Arena is the pinnacle of all shooters, IMHO.

 

[Nhirlathothep]

i see a problem.
doom II has way more enemies, u had 20 30 for wave around you (usually).

here, they are usually 4 5.

 

[Nhirlathothep]

:thumbsup:

Q3 Arena is the pinnacle of all shooters, IMHO.

yes