Doom 3 engine programmed with efficiency?

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DKlein

Senior member
Aug 29, 2002
341
1
76
One thing I never get tired of on forums:

Someone (generally new) coming in and making a post that contradicts a conclusion everyone else came to a while back, without any actual background or understanding to back up his contention, just maybe at most a very limited example from his own experience (that generally turns out to be false proof since he messed something up, failed to understand a key concept, etc). Then complaining when everyone jumps on him and flames him for being an idiot by saying he was just trying to start a nice little conversation.

A tip for such people: just assume that whatever it was you were going to say is wrong, as generally it is, and just SKIP the part in your post which incites the flames. This is generally both the opening of the post and in the topic title. This part is the assumption that your ill-concieved notions of how something works are right, and the stating of the poor conclusion that you have drawn using said crappy understandings - just stick to asking a question (like why doesn't D3 run well on my computer, NOT D3 is a crappy engine, what idiot made this?). Furthurmore, don't attack figures in the industry who are highly respected or their works (i.e. John Carmack, the D3 engine), unless you yourself have a hell of a lot of experience and ability in said industry. Do this and you won't be flamed - don't do this and keep wondering why everyone thinks you're a moron and flames you to death everytime you make such a topic.
 

Scarceas

Junior Member
Aug 11, 2004
3
0
0
I've read that D3 is framerate limited. That could explain why even with all details off, you have a seemingly low framerate.

If you're curious, see what happens if you put the a bit more detail back in. If your framerate stays about the same, a framerate ceiling could be the culprit.

Not to start an argument, but I don't think your Athlon XP 3000+ is too slow of a CPU. Sheesh.
 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
7,357
0
0
Originally posted by: jkostans
I would love to get some additional input here. I set the quality to low, and disabled everything in the advanced options menu, and set the resolution to 640x480. Then I did timedemo demo1.demo, and all I got for a score was ~72fps. This is my system:

Windows XP Pro
Athlon XP 3000+ (Barton 166Mhz fsb)
1GB DDR333 RAM running at 333Mhz
Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB

I don't understand how the score can be that low with this system. Theres nothing special going on with the graphics as far as I can tell. The polygon count is very low, the texture resolution is very low, and no advanced effects like bump mapping or specular highlights are enabled. I would think I would be getting 200+ fps with these kind of conditions. I mean the graphics can't possibly be anything more than quake3 at its highest level (and I get around 300fps high quality 1024x768) . I would love for someone to come up with a good explanation for this horrendous performance on pretty decent hardware. And please, if you have doom 3, post your results and system specs. Set the quality to low, turn all of the advanced options off, and run timedemo demo1.demo .

It's the realtime lighting, kid.

The graphics are not even in the same league as quake 3. For realtime lighting the scene must be completely rendered once with 10-20k polygon models FOR EACH LIGHT SOURCE. This allows the z-buffer from each pass to be used to show where shadows are. Then the scene must be rendered a final time with lower polygon models for your viewpoint.

The engine is optimized to run with everything on. All bets are off if you try to run it in "ugly mode", besides it's kind of a stupid thing to do.

Before you go bashing something why don't you at least bother to do some reading. ?
 

Sureshot324

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2003
3,370
0
71
At that low a resolution, you're completely cpu limited, and AFAIK, a lot of the shadows/lighting calculations in doom 3 still have to be done by the cpu. Going to 800x600 probably will barely affect your fps at all. Also, going to med quality probably won't change fps either, because it mostly just uses more vid ram (which you have).
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,007
126
I've read that D3 is framerate limited. That could explain why even with all details off, you have a seemingly low framerate.
That's CPU limited and no, D3 is mainly GPU limited.

Going to 800x600 probably will barely affect your fps at all.
Unless you have a 6800U or something it'll increase it by a huge amount. On my old 9700 I got a large gain even when going from 800x600 to 640x480.
 

Deadtrees

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2002
2,351
0
0
Originally posted by: DefRef
Original version of the last post follows:

ITS PRATY FUNY HOW ONLY ON3 P3RSON ACTUALY TREID 2 GIEV AN EXPLANATION (THANK U BGFG10K AND STAPL3S) WHIEL TEH REST OF U POINTLESLY SPMMED ME!1!!!11 OMG I N3VER SADE IT WAS A PEIC3 OF CRAP ANGIEN IMM JUST CURIOUS AS 2 Y IT PERFORMS SO PORLY WHAN AL OF DA ADVANCED GRAPHICS OPTIONS R TURNED OF!!1!1!1 WTF LOL I RILLY DIDNT THINK I WAS GOIGN 2 OF3ND 90% OF TEH PEOPLA WHO R3AD TEH POST1!!! OMG WTF LOL I WUD STIL LIEK 2 H3AR SOM3 OTHER AXPLANATIONS AND OTH3R P3OPLES R3SULTS WUD B NIEC 2!1!1!! WTF LOL BUT IF UR PLANNG 2 AD ANOTHER WUT DO U KNOW ABOUT CODNG MR!!11!1! WTF 8 POSTS R3PLY THEN PLZ JUST DONT11!1! WTF LOL HOP3 TAHTS NOT 2 MUCH 2 ASK!1!! OMG LOL

You came in here implying that your poor performance was due to Carmack being a lousy coder and wonder why everyone jumped on you? You probably wonder why your car (1985 Plymouth Horizon) doesn't go 0-60 in 3.2 seconds after you change into shorts and use premium gas.

clicknext said it best - "Why don't you try playing the game instead of turning all the graphics off and benchmarking pointlessly? Afterall, games are for playing." - and maybe you should try playing the game and seeing if it works for you instread of defeating the purpose of the engine (to make pretty pictures) by stipping away all the candy-coating for some juvenille wang-measuring purpose.

WORD!
 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
7,357
0
0
Originally posted by: DKlein
One thing I never get tired of on forums:

Someone (generally new) coming in and making a post that contradicts a conclusion everyone else came to a while back, without any actual background or understanding to back up his contention, just maybe at most a very limited example from his own experience (that generally turns out to be false proof since he messed something up, failed to understand a key concept, etc). Then complaining when everyone jumps on him and flames him for being an idiot by saying he was just trying to start a nice little conversation.

A tip for such people: just assume that whatever it was you were going to say is wrong, as generally it is, and just SKIP the part in your post which incites the flames. This is generally both the opening of the post and in the topic title. This part is the assumption that your ill-concieved notions of how something works are right, and the stating of the poor conclusion that you have drawn using said crappy understandings - just stick to asking a question (like why doesn't D3 run well on my computer, NOT D3 is a crappy engine, what idiot made this?). Furthurmore, don't attack figures in the industry who are highly respected or their works (i.e. John Carmack, the D3 engine), unless you yourself have a hell of a lot of experience and ability in said industry. Do this and you won't be flamed - don't do this and keep wondering why everyone thinks you're a moron and flames you to death everytime you make such a topic.

This just became one of my favorite posts ever.
 

Sureshot324

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2003
3,370
0
71
Originally posted by: BFG10K
I've read that D3 is framerate limited. That could explain why even with all details off, you have a seemingly low framerate.
That's CPU limited and no, D3 is mainly GPU limited.

Going to 800x600 probably will barely affect your fps at all.
Unless you have a 6800U or something it'll increase it by a huge amount. On my old 9700 I got a large gain even when going from 800x600 to 640x480.

On my 9500pro it didn't make much difference, but then i only have a xp2100@2ghz.