"Don't Go There"

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
tl;dr

Meh, I don't know what to think about the article. You have to think about what he is saying in context. Unless we move to a NHS type of healthcare system, then free market incentives will still be part of the system. You simply cannot remove it from the system w/o a government takeover. There are many models of universal coverage, and this criticism doesn't seem to apply to the multitude of them.

Then make free market incentives a dwindling aspect of the system... that is completely possible. There are already insurance companies and hospital systems that operate as non-profits... slowly push payers and providers towards non-profit status.

My main concerns/reasons why government run UHC will be a disaster:

1) the government will run it... i can't think of one large scale system the fed runs well

2a) there has to be real incentive to people to try to keep themselves healthy

2b) there has to a penalty of sorts for not trying

3) the economic impact on medical innovation and medical talent has not been fully weighed

as a aside for #3, though... once the money is out of the game as far as treating diseases and symptoms... maybe more cutting research will be applied to actually curing and preventing diseases in the first place.

But as first blood for #3, one of my friends quit medical school after two years because UHC is coming down the pike... he figured, "why go into massive debt to work for the fucking government in a system that is gonna go to shit". He would have made a really good doctor, too... his Dad is an awesome doctor and he would be just as good, if not better.

You make some good points. I will however disagree with your #2. I believe that being healthy is its own incentive. You feel much better when you are in better shape. When you aren't, you feel like crap and have extra societal pressure to bring yourself back up to par. As far as your friend goes, what is he doing instead? That seems a rather short-sighted decision. The only thing worse than going into a field after accumulating lots of debt is to accumulate lots of debt and never finish. We seem to be moving in the direction of UHI instead of UHC though. We seemed to have rejected such a system as Britain where doctors have to work for the government.

 

[PJABBER]

Someone sent me an email that British MEP Daniel Hannan is going to be on the Hannity show at 9P EST on Fox. The topic is going to be commentary on current proposals for UHC in the U.S.

Guess I will have to catch it on YouTube.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: PJABBER
Someone sent me an email that British MEP Daniel Hannan is going to be on the Hannity show at 9P EST on Fox. The topic is going to be commentary on current proposals for UHC in the U.S.

Guess I will have to catch it on YouTube.

I wish you were just on YouTube so you could jabber on with the rest of the mis-information brigade in your own little channel.

 

[CrackRabbit]

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

Thanks,

Mgmt.

 

[PJABBER]

Hey, I got a video feed from the office to my apartment! Maybe I will be able to catch how Daniel Hannan interacts with the American audience on Hannity!

 

[shadow9d9]

Hmm, his own country disagrees with him.

"Americans are more dissatisfied than citizens of other nations with their basic health care (search) even while paying more of their own money for treatment, a five-nation survey released Thursday notes."

"One-third of Americans told pollsters that the U.S. health care system should be completely rebuilt, far more than residents of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, or the U.K. Just 16 percent of Americans said that the U.S. health care system needs only minor changes, the lowest number expressing approval among the countries surveyed."

SOURCES: ?The Commonwealth Fund 2004 International Health Policy Survey of Primary Care in Five Countries,? Commonwealth Fund, Oct. 28, 2004. Cathy Schoen, vice president, Commonwealth Fund. Carolyn M. Clancy, MD, director, Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality. The Honorable John Hutton, MP.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136990,00.html

 

[PJABBER]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Hmm, his own country disagrees with him.

"Americans are more dissatisfied than citizens of other nations with their basic health care (search) even while paying more of their own money for treatment, a five-nation survey released Thursday notes."

"One-third of Americans told pollsters that the U.S. health care system should be completely rebuilt, far more than residents of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, or the U.K. Just 16 percent of Americans said that the U.S. health care system needs only minor changes, the lowest number expressing approval among the countries surveyed."

SOURCES: ?The Commonwealth Fund 2004 International Health Policy Survey of Primary Care in Five Countries,? Commonwealth Fund, Oct. 28, 2004. Cathy Schoen, vice president, Commonwealth Fund. Carolyn M. Clancy, MD, director, Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality. The Honorable John Hutton, MP.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136990,00.html

Are you watching Hannity on Fox News? I don't see this on my TV at all. Caddell is on right now making some interesting points.

Why are you referencing an old and stale survey anyway? If you want to reject Hannan's position there is a lot more current material that might be relevant.

****

Saw the clip but it didn't do much for me. Hannity always keeps his commentary simple and Hannen is best in a vigorous debate or making a speech, not his type of forum at all.