DOJ rape study debunks 1-in-5.

[fskimospy]

Especially because his own links disagree with the point he's trying to make. To wit, he posted a link to a document from the CDC with absolutely no indication of why he had posted it, and the preamble states that nearly 1 in 5 women are the victims of rape or attempted rape. Then again, we have absolutely no idea why he posted those links, because there was absolutely no context given to anything outside of "here are links to things on the internet."

But you can't argue with an ideologue. There is no fact that will dispel the idea of the Feminazi in his mind because he is unwilling to accept any definition that does not agree with his preconceived notions about what feminism is. He shows up in other threads quoting radical feminists who have been dead for decades as though theirs is the only true feminist ideology. It's absurd and pointless to argue with because your arguments will fall on deaf ears. And to back that point up, here are some links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Forks_Border_Bruins
http://www.metacritic.com/movie/bad-news-bears
http://www.ada.org/en/advocacy/legal-advocacy-and-litigation/
http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-new-york-deli-torrance
http://www.zappos.com/clogs-mules

I sincerely doubt he has read a single one of those links. It seems highly likely he cut and pasted them from some other place.

 

[Victorian Gray]

"All men are rapists and that's all they are" -- Marilyn French Author, "The Women's Room" (quoted again in People Magazine) "All men are rapists and that's all they are ..." --Feminist Marilyn French,

"French's 1977 novel The Women's Room follows the lives of Mira and her friends in 1950s and 1960s America, including Val, a militant radical feminist. The novel portrays the details of the lives of women at this time and the feminist movement of this era in the United States. At one point in the book the character Val says "all men are rapists".[3] This quote has often been incorrectly attributed to Marilyn French herself. French's first book was a thesis on James Joyce.[1]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_French

 

[Victorian Gray]

ALL feminist ideology stems from the core of patriarchy theory, which paints men as bad. There's nowhere to go from there.

Why do I quote radfems? Because they're the driving force behind the coffee-shop feminists who don't know what they believe, except that men are basically not as nice/capable as women, and have stuff women don't so it must be taken from them (AKA "shared".) Many of these radfems are alive and screeching today, not long-dead. The recent-and-long-dead ones have still set up the basic framework, including the basis of patriarchy theory itself.

You gonna' deny that too?

Given that your starting point is wrong it's no wonder that you find nowhere to go.

 

[First]

Gah! I've been outed! 🙄

Well, I guess when you can't discredit the evidence, you may as well impugn the motive.

Huh? Your questioning of the accuracy of "1 in 5" was quite diligently and systematically discredited throughout the first couple pages of this thread. You discredited yourself just fine.

 

[Atreus21]

Huh? Your questioning of the accuracy of "1 in 5" was quite diligently and systematically discredited throughout the first couple pages of this thread. You discredited yourself just fine.

Can you quote where the DOJ study was discredited?

 

[First]

Can you quote where the DOJ study was discredited?

You're woefully confused; the definition of sexual assault, rape, the samples and overall meanings of the DOJ study were quite different from the 1 in 5 study that was performed, hence your entire argument was apples and oranges from the word go. Let me know if you'd like me to link you the takedowns in crayon on page 1.

 

[bshole]

Can you quote where the DOJ study was discredited?

...he says after having it explained to him in EXCRUTIATING detail. Can you explain your complete and utter lack of reading comprehension skills? That is a much more interesting question. Is that math stuff just too complicated for you or is your bias so great that you are simply incapable of accepting reality? I am leading towards the former but I could be wrong.

 

[fskimospy]

Can you quote where the DOJ study was discredited?

You can't use the DOJ study to debunk the 1-in-5 statistic being used in other areas as they aren't measuring the same thing.

 

[brycejones]

Can you quote where the DOJ study was discredited?

Holy crap batman, you have now become as obtuse as Texas Hiker. That's a pretty high low bar to cross. Congrats!

 

[Atreus21]

Furthermore, the study comprised the years 1995-2013. Is the 6.1 in 1000 an average over those 8 years?

Good heavens. How did no one catch me on this? If Phokus was here this'd be in his sig immediately. Eskimo didn't catch it either.

 

[Atreus21]

You can't use the DOJ study to debunk the 1-in-5 statistic being used in other areas as they aren't measuring the same thing.

The CDC study says 1-in-5 women will be raped in college.

The DOJ study says approximately 1 in 160 women in college are raped each year.

I suppose I have to agree. These are not easily compared. But you have to admit, one is a lot more useful to activists than the other.

If there's one important statistic from the DOJ study, it's that it proves that non-students suffer rape at higher rates than students.

 

[CLite]

The CDC study says 1-in-5 women will be raped in college.

The DOJ study says approximately 1 in 160 women in college are raped each year.

The CDC does not say 1-in-5 woman will be raped during college, nor does the DOJ study say 1-in-160 woman will be raped a year. This has been explained to you ad nauseam, feel free to re-read the thread or links.

You are also being cute by putting a per year number next to a tallied number.

 

[First]

The CDC study says 1-in-5 women will be raped in college.

The DOJ study says approximately 1 in 160 women in college are raped each year.

I suppose I have to agree. These are not easily compared. But you have to admit, one is a lot more useful to activists than the other.

If there's one important statistic from the DOJ study, it's that it proves that non-students suffer rape at higher rates than students.

Good lord.

At some point in your life, and maybe it'll be someday soon, you're just going to have to come to terms with your inability to interpret words and comprehend concepts. Hell, for all I know, this looks Chinese to you.

 

[fskimospy]

The CDC study says 1-in-5 women will be raped in college.

The DOJ study says approximately 1 in 160 women in college are raped each year.

I suppose I have to agree. These are not easily compared. But you have to admit, one is a lot more useful to activists than the other.

If there's one important statistic from the DOJ study, it's that it proves that non-students suffer rape at higher rates than students.

This is simply not what they say.

The CDC study says 1 in 5 women in college have been the victim of an attempted or completed sexual assault during their tenure. It does not say 1 in 5 women will be raped in college.

The DOJ says approximately 1 in 160 women of college age are the victims of rape each year.

Those two statistics are reporting on entirely different things.

 

[CLite]

The DOJ says approximately 1 in 160 women of college age are the victims of rape each year.

Actually the 6.1 per 1000 includes verbal threats, sexual assault, attempted rape and completed rape.

Per DOJ the "completed" rape is 2.0 per 1000 or in other words 1 in 500 not 1 in 160. This can be found on page 4.

 

[eton975]

Wow. Blue_Max's cognitive dissonance is amazing. It should be pretty easy to see whether the 19% figure is correct, really. We just look at the paper, simple as that:

So we now know that the paper says that 19% of 1,073 undergraduate women reported being a victim of attempted/completed sexual assault. 19% figure is thus backed up, because paper says it. Onus is on you to disprove.

Ofc it is fine to fairly criticise the methods, but we do know what the paper actually says now.

 

[nickqt]

Good lord.

At some point in your life, and maybe it'll be someday soon, you're just going to have to come to terms with your inability to interpret words and comprehend concepts. Hell, for all I know, this looks Chinese to you.

I may just have to make your last 2 sentences my freakin' signature!

 

[davmat787]

What is a "false" accusation anyways? If the woman remembers it as rape, why isn't it rape?

This kind of reminds me of when I was dating my now wife and pressed her for sex. She kept saying no, over and over again but I would keep pressing her. Eventually after an hour or so of consistent urgent pressure, she would get frustrated and reluctantly give in. I dunno if it was rape or not (500 NOs and 1 YES). I do know that since I have been married, she NEVER gives in, sex is completely at her discretion. Women have entirely too much power over men in this respect.

Why the hell would you even want to have sex with someone you had to browbeat for an hour to finally gain access? The fuck man?

And protip: There are much easier and respectable methods for gaining access than begging for an hour. Things like making her feel special, foreplay, .etc. You know normal things that put her in the mood too.

Browbeating not so much.

 

[Nograts]

TIL that in 5 years, every woman will have been raped at some point.

 

[eton975]

TIL that in 5 years, every woman will have been raped at some point.

The paper was saying that 19% of 1073 undergrad college women reported sexual assault. That's what it says.

 

[BigDH01]

The paper was saying that 19% of 1073 undergrad college women reported sexual assault. That's what it says.

Of important note, most of that was "assaulted while incapacitated." To get a better understanding, you need to understand how the survey was conducted. These were the options presented for respondents in regard to assault:

In the survey, all 5,446 randomly sampled undergraduate women who participated were presented with a prompt explaining that subsequent questions would ask them about “nonconsensual or unwanted sexual contact” including

* forced touching of a sexual nature (forced kissing, touching of private parts, grabbing, fondling, rubbing up against you in a sexual way, even if it is over your clothes)

* oral sex (someone’s mouth or tongue making contact with your genitals or your mouth or tongue making contact with someone else’s genitals)

* sexual intercourse (someone’s penis being put in your vagina)

* anal sex (someone’s penis being put in your anus)

* sexual penetration with a finger or object (someone putting their finger or an object like a bottle or a candle in your vagina or anus).

These are the following options regarding state of mind:

Since you began college, has anyone had sexual contact with you by using physical force or threatening to physically harm you?

Since you began college, has someone had sexual contact with you when you were unable to provide consent or stop what was happening because you were passed out, drugged, drunk, incapacitated, or asleep? This question asks about incidents that you are certain happened.

Framed loosely, the question about the state of mind implies that being drunk is equivalent to being unable to provide consent. Once all drunken acts become nonconsensual, any of the described acts become assault or attempted assault. Meaning, the authors created a very wide net to catch as many "sexual or attempted sexual assaults" as possible. The framing of the questions makes it very possible there were a lot of false positives, if you believe that a couple that meets at a bar and later has sex while drunk is not automatically sexual assault.

The study also had other flaws, low response rate, small sample size, etc, and you can read the own authors' critique of the 1-in-5 number here:
http://time.com/3633903/campus-rape-1-in-5-sexual-assault-setting-record-straight/

This is not a study upon which policy should be guided. At best, it's a study that indicates we need further examination.

My primary issue with this is that it has been used by certain groups to create an environment of perpetual victimization. Normally I couldn't care less, but now universities are adopting policies of affirmative consent, basically presumed guilt. I believe this is in contradiction to the spirit of American values and law and it's a shame that these are the values being instilled into a large population of American youth.

 

[eton975]

-snip-

Hmm. Some good points. We know that being drunk alters decision making...

I guess it can be difficult for one partner to be 100% sure about whether the other partner was being influenced by substances when they gave consent. If the initiating partner couldn't reasonably be expected to determine they were being influenced, then it def shouldn't be classified as rape.

Will look into what the authors said about the methodology. Thanks for the info.

 

[Ancalagon44]

I live in South Africa, pretty much the rape capital of the world, and I don't even think our rape stats are as bad as 1 in 5.

If you are telling me that the USA is as bad as South Africa, or indeed any other country in Africa, I'll eat my shoes.

 

[glenn1]

This is simply not what they say.

The CDC study says 1 in 5 women in college have been the victim of an attempted or completed sexual assault during their tenure. It does not say 1 in 5 women will be raped in college.

The DOJ says approximately 1 in 160 women of college age are the victims of rape each year.

Those two statistics are reporting on entirely different things.

It's a reasonable line of questioning to consider the accuracy of the statistics and methodology used to compile them when the definitions of terms aren't universally accepted. Maybe the actual numbers are higher or maybe lower, greater accuracy is a good thing regardless. It's also reasonable to question whether our current approach towards sexual violence can be improved for both those who feel they have been the victims of it and those who are accused of it.

What doesn't help is personalizing the discussions into the relative merits or demerits of current feminist ideology. You can examine a position someone holds without needing to first examine the ideology or assumptions used to come to that position.

 

[waggy]

the fact that is so much confusion on the 1 in 5 claim shows that we need more research. Research that is free of politics also.

though i will say any % of women getting raped is to high. Same as any % of false claims is to high.

i do think that the numbers of drunk participants should not be included but should be a separate stat.