DOJ quitely tightens gun control laws

[spidey07]

So you're saying that in the process of the NICS check that every firearm sold & its buyer is entered into a federal database, or what?

If that were the case, then the rule change from the BATF would be pointless, no?

Explain to me personal experience of buying a firearm and
Then I'll set you straight fucking dirty liberal

 

[Jhhnn]

Explain to me personal experience of buying a firearm and
Then I'll set you straight fucking dirty liberal

That's right, Spidey- caught in an obvious contradiction, you pretend it didn't happen, resort to personal attack & invective...

You can't think straight, let alone set anybody else straight...

 

[Jhhnn]

I do need to apologize for a technical error- Parts A & B of the form 4473 contain information that may be transmitted to the NICS system. This is information about the purchaser, not the weapon. Identifiers wrt the particular weapon are not, as they are in section D.

It doesn't change anything- The NICS is not a firearms registration database.

 

[irishScott]

So you're saying that in the process of the NICS check that every firearm sold & its buyer is entered into a federal database, or what?

If that were the case, then the rule change from the BATF would be pointless, no?

Can't speak for spidey, you're right on that. However the BATF does have the right to, without warning, access all records of any given gun shop whenever they like.

What the ATF is asking to do is have gun shops automatically report sales of multiple firearms. It seems reasonable on the surface, but given the ATF's stance on gun control (not to mention Obama's record on the issue), most gun owners see it as a prelude to more gun control. And before you scoff, remember that the Assault Weapons Ban was still in effect less than 10 years ago, and the slippery slope has taken place very visibly in other western nations. We're somewhat paranoid about our gun rights as they could be gone in the span of a month if we gave into every "reasonable" increase in gun control.

 

[woolfe9999]

Can't speak for spidey, you're right on that. However the BATF does have the right to, without warning, access all records of any given gun shop whenever they like.

What the ATF is asking to do is have gun shops automatically report sales of multiple firearms. It seems reasonable on the surface, but given the ATF's stance on gun control (not to mention Obama's record on the issue), most gun owners see it as a prelude to more gun control. And before you scoff, remember that the Assault Weapons Ban was still in effect less than 10 years ago, and the slippery slope has taken place very visibly in other western nations. We're somewhat paranoid about our gun rights as they could be gone in the span of a month if we gave into every "reasonable" increase in gun control.

What is "Obama's record on gun control?" What gun control legislation has he signed? I'm not saying he hasn't imposed any gun control. I'm sure there is something in particular you are referring to. I just don't know what it is off hand.

 

[Gemzee88]

The only people that are going to be affected by stricter gun control laws are the law abiding citizens. Criminals will always get weapons, even if they have to smuggle them in. They will never care about the law. If they really want a gun, they will find a way to get one.

Law-abiding citizens should be able to protect themselves, and stricter gun control laws will inhibit their ability to do so. Studies have shown that communities which allow citizens to carry concealed weapons have actually seen a decrease in crime.

 

[schneiderguy]

What is "Obama's record on gun control?" What gun control legislation has he signed? I'm not saying he hasn't imposed any gun control. I'm sure there is something in particular you are referring to. I just don't know what it is off hand.

IIRC he's said that he would like to reinstate the assault weapons ban.

 

[irishScott]

What is "Obama's record on gun control?" What gun control legislation has he signed? I'm not saying he hasn't imposed any gun control. I'm sure there is something in particular you are referring to. I just don't know what it is off hand.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

I'm not taking the NRA's line that he's the anti-2nd-amendment Satan, but so far he's ranged from what appears to be politically motivated neutrality to left (especially with his comments on the assault weapons ban). He's tip-toeing around the issue now, which means he's afraid of the political repercussions, which means in all likelihood he's anti-2nd-amendment overall. Thank God we've got a Republican House.

 

[BoomerD]

Sorry, even though I'm a big supporter of the Second Amendment, I just don't see a problem with tightening the gun laws to prevent gun smuggling to Mexico.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...n-smuggling-scandal-184408968.html#more-13679

The scandal-plagued, tiny New Mexico border town of Columbus is dissolving its police department and asking the county sheriff to protect its citizens.

An employee at Columbus City Hall confirmed to The Lookout that the police force has been dissolved. The Luna County Sheriff's Office will now take over patrolling the town.

The town has been upended since federal authorities arrested Police Chief Angelo Vega, Mayor Eddie Espinoza, Village Trustee Blas Gutierrez and nine other residents for conspiring to smuggle hundreds of guns to drug cartels over the border in March. All of the accused have pleaded not guilty, and their trial is expected in October, according to the Las Cruces Sun News. (You can read the indictment here.)

The Associated Press presciently reported in May of 2009 that a law enforcement "vacuum" had made the town attractive to drug smugglers who moved over the border to settle down in Columbus. The "four-man police force in Columbus has turned over seven times in three years because of scandal or apathy," the AP reported, adding that more residents of the formerly modest town were driving flashy cars and buying fancy homes. Vega, who had then just nabbed the police chief job, told the AP that no illegal activity would be tolerated. "This is a new day for Columbus," he said.

In another strange twist, the Las Cruces paper reported that the New Mexico U.S. Attorney's Office has been relieved of its duties in prosecuting the trial late last month. Now, federal attorneys in El Paso, Texas will take over the case. Neither office would tell the paper what was behind the switch, and The Lookout has not yet received a reply to its a request for comment from us to the New Mexico U.S. Attorney's Office.

Gutierrez, the village trustee, only resigned his post on July 8, months after his arrest; he maintains that the arrest was politically motivated. Gutierrez's wife, Gabriela, has also been charged in the smuggling case, and a federal agent said when law enforcement officers made the arrest at their home she was "attempting to hide bulk cash on her person and within her children's shoes."

A new mayor, formerly the town clerk, was just elected in late June. The three remaining town trustees voted to dissolve the police department on July 7.

Here's the indictment:

http://nmpolitics.net/Documents/ColumbusIndictments.pdf

THESE are the kind of people this law is meant to stop.

Is it possible that this will inconvenience LEGITIMATE gun buyers?
Yes, perhaps...but if they're truly legitimate, this won't be a problem. It will get reported, they may be investigated to make sure they're not buying guns for the Mexican cartels...and if everything is good...no problem.

 

[schneiderguy]

Sorry, even though I'm a big supporter of the Second Amendment, I just don't see a problem with tightening the gun laws to prevent gun smuggling to Mexico.

Legalize drugs and secure the border = no more guns being smuggled into Mexico.

 

[irishScott]

Sorry, even though I'm a big supporter of the Second Amendment, I just don't see a problem with tightening the gun laws to prevent gun smuggling to Mexico.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...n-smuggling-scandal-184408968.html#more-13679



Here's the indictment:

http://nmpolitics.net/Documents/ColumbusIndictments.pdf

THESE are the kind of people this law is meant to stop.

Is it possible that this will inconvenience LEGITIMATE gun buyers?
Yes, perhaps...but if they're truly legitimate, this won't be a problem. It will get reported, they may be investigated to make sure they're not buying guns for the Mexican cartels...and if everything is good...no problem.

Like I said, most people don't really care about the law in isolation, it's what it might lead to that's the problem. Almost every gun registration list in the western world has turned into a ban list sooner or later, and this law will at best simply annoy the bad guys. It's not like there's only one gun store within driving distance of the border. They'll have networks of middle-men who'll buy the guns, one at a time, all across the border states.

And then in 2-4 years Mexico will still be a shithole, and the gun control advocates will say: "well we need more gun control on our side, and we've already made an effort, why stop there? Let's register every weapon that's bought, you know, for the good of the Mexicans 😉 ." And then that registry list turns into a ban list once the supreme court is liberal again.

Granted that's all speculation, but I'm not willing to risk it happening for a pointless law. When someone comes up with someone better that'll actually have an impact like, oh I don't know SECURING THE BORDER so these smugglers can't get across in the first place, I'll be all ears.

 

[BoomerD]

Legalize drugs and secure the border = no more guns being smuggled into Mexico.

Secure the border? I'm 100% in favor of that.
Legalize drugs? No fucking thanks. Pot...MAYBE, if they can devise a test that can tell the difference between the joint a person smoked 2 weeks ago in their living room...and the one they smoked 10 minutes ago while driving down the freeway.

 

[Gemzee88]

irishscott, Come on! Registering every weapon would be a great idea.

 

[mooseracing]

.....It seems reasonable on the surface...

It might seem reasonable if the government wasn't making laws through illegal actions they caused.

After this whole mess, it just shows the BATF needs to be gone along with alot of puppets above them. Why do people vote in others that break the law and think they are going to help us? I also can't believe there hasn't been more news coverage of this whole mess.