Doing nothing about climate change will save us huge amounts, right? Wrong.

[Patranus]

but science fiction fantasy is my favorite movie genre.

"The Day After Tomorrow" made for an entertaining movie.

 

[sandorski]

So... considering our current financial status and projected budgets.... who pays the tab? Like I said earlier, your science can be dead on but you still can't cheat the math.

You're focused on the wrong thing. $Trillions are going to be made by those who address the issue. Don't miss out.

 

[sandorski]

SHHH!!! You're clueless!!!

I may have underestimated you, you seem to be catching on.

 

[soccerballtux]

I may have underestimated you, you seem to be catching on.

Thanks, but it's far too easy to do what you do.

 

[umbrella39]

Global warming is a proven farce. Perhaps you haven't heard about CRU's leaked data.
Nice to see everyone redefining Global Warming as Climate change.

Nothing to see here, move along please.

The only thing proven is how stupid you just made yourself sound.

 

[boomerang]

 

[umbrella39]

 

[boomerang]

I laughed at yours - it's funny, did you laugh at mine?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

You're focused on the wrong thing. $Trillions are going to be made by those who address the issue. Don't miss out.

You mean "$Trillions are going to be made by those who EXPLOIT the issue and can get more converts to their faith."

 

[soccerballtux]

The only thing proven is how stupid you just made yourself sound.

LOL good stuff right here fellas. You're quite a religious person aren't you.

 

[cyclohexane]

Well, the costs are going get passed to the next generation. So fuck them, let's just pollute.

 

[Darwin333]

You're focused on the wrong thing. $Trillions are going to be made by those who address the issue. Don't miss out.

lol, I am way ahead of you on that one. I just started a new solar business designing, installing and maintaining commercial and residential solar electric systems. Between the state and feds residential customers get up to 80% of the entire cost (sometimes even the roof replacement) back in the form of tax credits/rebates. While I don't believe we can afford it, if uncle Sam is dead set on handing out free money I am going to do my best to get a cut.

And if you really wanted to spend gobs of money to help move us from fossil fuels I can tell you how to do it rather easily. Sadly, it is way too simple and not enough of Congress's big time contributors will be able to get a piece of the pie.

If you want to speed up the adoption of alternate energies than simply increase the federal contribution by 10-20%, one sentence in the bill to make any state/energy co. rebates tax free, and some sort of .gov program that offers bridge loans for both state and federal tax credits, or even better you could make it a grant like it is on the commercial side. One of the biggest hurdles is people having to borrow $32K of a $40K system simply to get to the tax credits/rebates at the end of the year. Its guaranteed .gov money but most people don't have that kind of money to spare so they have to take out a short term loan (and be qualified for it). I would think it would be rather easy to remove that barrier and it would increase adoption like crazy.

But like I said, the Goldman Sachs of the world don't get a cut so I doubt it will happen unless its attached to a bill that does make the big dogs piles of money.

Oh, and my way creates tons of good paying jobs, directly benefits consumers, directly benefits the environment, directly benefits the energy co.s in states that require renewable production, will directly benefit the grid as it gets upgraded, and will help the price of renewable continue to drop speeding up "grid parity" which should be the holy grail that you guys are after. Instead we get schemes intended to make the big dogs billions and instead of enticing people to make a good investment in clean power generation it jacks up their utility bills leaving them less money to make that investment (although it does become a better investment).


If you wanted to spend a little more than offer tax credits for panels and turbines that are made in America to try and keep as much of the money in the States as possible.

 

[sandorski]

lol, I am way ahead of you on that one. I just started a new solar business designing, installing and maintaining commercial and residential solar electric systems. Between the state and feds residential customers get up to 80% of the entire cost (sometimes even the roof replacement) back in the form of tax credits/rebates. While I don't believe we can afford it, if uncle Sam is dead set on handing out free money I am going to do my best to get a cut.

And if you really wanted to spend gobs of money to help move us from fossil fuels I can tell you how to do it rather easily. Sadly, it is way too simple and not enough of Congress's big time contributors will be able to get a piece of the pie.

If you want to speed up the adoption of alternate energies than simply increase the federal contribution by 10-20%, one sentence in the bill to make any state/energy co. rebates tax free, and some sort of .gov program that offers bridge loans for both state and federal tax credits, or even better you could make it a grant like it is on the commercial side. One of the biggest hurdles is people having to borrow $32K of a $40K system simply to get to the tax credits/rebates at the end of the year. Its guaranteed .gov money but most people don't have that kind of money to spare so they have to take out a short term loan (and be qualified for it). I would think it would be rather easy to remove that barrier and it would increase adoption like crazy.

But like I said, the Goldman Sachs of the world don't get a cut so I doubt it will happen unless its attached to a bill that does make the big dogs piles of money.

Oh, and my way creates tons of good paying jobs, directly benefits consumers, directly benefits the environment, directly benefits the energy co.s in states that require renewable production, will directly benefit the grid as it gets upgraded, and will help the price of renewable continue to drop speeding up "grid parity" which should be the holy grail that you guys are after. Instead we get schemes intended to make the big dogs billions and instead of enticing people to make a good investment in clean power generation it jacks up their utility bills leaving them less money to make that investment (although it does become a better investment).


If you wanted to spend a little more than offer tax credits for panels and turbines that are made in America to try and keep as much of the money in the States as possible.

So your Beef isn't really with Spending, just how it's done?

Make up your mind.

 

[Darwin333]

You mean "$Trillions are going to be made by those who EXPLOIT the issue and can get more converts to their faith."

I agree. There is no need for big banks/brokers to get a cut of the kind of money we are talking about while adding no real value. There are much better ways that actually help regular Americans while providing real benefits to everyone.

We can't really afford either but I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that Congress doesn't let their good buddies get cut out of the deal.

 

[piasabird]

This is assuming there is anything we can do to reverse a supposed climate change trend. Climate is always changing and it has been that way ever since I was born. However, that does not disprove or prove global warming on a global scale.

The USA has been steadily improving and reducing environmental polution controls and emission standards, while other countries like China are polluting like no tomorrow. So saying that the USA does nothing is a bold faced lie.

 

[Darwin333]

So your Beef isn't really with Spending, just how it's done?

Make up your mind.

No, my beef IS with spending. We can't afford either approach (and both of them will make me money). I am simply outlining a better way to do it if they are dead set on spending it, which they are.

 

[shira]

No, my beef IS with spending. We can't afford either approach (and both of them will make me money). I am simply outlining a better way to do it if they are dead set on spending it, which they are.

But the point of debate is whether we can afford to NOT spend. If the economic forecast is correct, it will cost more in the long run to do nothing now than it will to spend now.

You can certainly debate whether the economic forecast is or is not correct. But simply stating that "spending now" is bad is like arguing that cardiac bypass surgery is bad by pointing out that some people die during the procedure.

 

[Darwin333]

But the point of debate is whether we can afford to NOT spend. If the economic forecast is correct, it will cost more in the long run to do nothing now than it will to spend now.

You can certainly debate whether the economic forecast is or is not correct. But simply stating that "spending now" is bad is like arguing that cardiac bypass surgery is bad by pointing out that some people die during the procedure.

Thats fine. My question remains, who picks up the tab?

 

[soccerballtux]

Thats fine. My question remains, who picks up the tab?

Somebody else.