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Dog Experts

Nebor

Lifer
So I have an older dog (Apollo), 1.5 years old, we just got him about 3 months ago. He's a fawn chihuaha, was very well behaved, housebroken, etc. when we got him from the pound. He was hesitant to eat when we got him, and still never gets excited when it's dinner time for him. I had started taking him to obedience training, and he was very very good at it, top of his class. He quickly learned to sit, sit up, heel, halt, etc. He's always been VERY aggressive towards other dogs, even though he's only 18lbs himself, and most of the dogs he aggresses towards could kill him with one bite. But at training, he learned to get along well with other dogs too! He never strayed far even if you walked him without a leash. He would always come on command.

So anyway, 2 weeks ago my girlfriend brings home this 7 week old Yorkie puppy(Zeus.) He's 9 weeks now and weighs about 4lbs. I've gotten him house trained already, and he comes when you call him (most of the time.) He's very excited at dinner time. Generally a good dog.

Here's the tough part, my older dog, Apollo, has gone to absolute shit. Seemingly overnight, he refuses to do anything he's told. Entirely disobedient. He runs off outside for 30 minutes at a time before coming home. He gets run away from the food by the puppy, which I don't really understand. I would think the bigger, older dog would be the alpha. But Apollo's behavior has been on a steady decline for the last two weeks. Anytime I tell him to do anything, he puts his ears down, looks all sad, and goes to bed like he's in trouble. And while the puppy has become housetrained very quickly, Apollo has taken to peeing and pooping in the house.

This came to a head about 30 minutes ago, when I was walking him (on a leash now, since he'll now run off if I don't use a leash) and he alternated between pulling constantly while growling, and basically laying down and being dragged. So when we got home, I went into the dogs room with him and asked him what was wrong, and went to pet him. That's when he bit me. I immediately gave him two hard smacks on the butt, during which he bit me again. This resulted in him getting thrown across the room and striking the wall about 4 feet off the ground. He then ran around the room growling and peeing and pooping everywhere. I removed Zeus (the puppy) from the room and locked him in there (after cleaning up the mess.) Now keep in mind I'm never mean to my animals. I can count on two hands the number of times he's been spanked, and all of them involved him either pooping on the floor (out of spite) or being excessively mean to the puppy (to the point of endangering it's life.)

I don't know what to do. I've always said I'd rather have an obedient dog than a happy dog, but this one seems unwilling to be either. He is very close to being put down. Help?

UPDATE:

On the advice of the vet, I got Apollo a remote "shock collar." An Innotek IUT-300 to be exact. I watched the DVD that came with it, but I wasn't comfortable trying to use it by myself. I was afraid that his abuse at the hands of his previous owners would make him even more vulnerable to a complete mental breakdown. So I talked to the guy who runs his obedience training class, and he recommended someone that specializes in remote collar training. After only two lessons, Apollo is like a brand new dog. He quickly learned which behavior was bad, and which behavior is good, and by reinforcing the good behavior with praise and treats, it lets him know that he's doing the right thing and making me happy. And by punishing bad behavior with a corrective shock, he learns that bad behavior hurts him and me.

He is once again a very, very happy dog. He jumps up to greet me when I get him, licks my face again, gets along great with the puppy, etc. The remote collar and the training sessions added up to about $500, but it was worth it to see him happy again. Here's a new picture of him and Zeus hanging out.

DSC00156.JPG

Oh yeah, and he's only worn the electric collar for a grand total of maybe 8 hours. He's so used to having different collars and stuff put on him, he doesn't associate the remote collar with the shocks, so his behavior is good 100% of the time.

Also, I tried the electric collar on myself before I put it on him. It ranges from level 1 to level 9. Level 4 was relatively unpleasant for me, so I figured that would be limit for him. In actual use he can't feel level 1, and level 2 is just right to correct him, with the "boost button" to level 4 used for dangerous behavior (running into the street, chasing people while growling, etc.)
 
Originally posted by: Nebor
So I have an older dog (Apollo), 1.5 years old, we just got him about 3 months ago. He's a fawn chihuaha, was very well behaved, housebroken, etc. when we got him from the pound. He was hesitant to eat when we got him, and still never gets excited when it's dinner time for him. I had started taking him to obedience training, and he was very very good at it, top of his class. He quickly learned to sit, sit up, heel, halt, etc. He's always been VERY aggressive towards other dogs, even though he's only 18lbs himself, and most of the dogs he aggresses towards could kill him with one bite. But at training, he learned to get along well with other dogs too! He never strayed far even if you walked him without a leash. He would always come on command.

So anyway, 2 weeks ago my girlfriend brings home this 7 week old Yorkie puppy(Zeus.) He's 9 weeks now and weighs about 4lbs. I've gotten him house trained already, and he comes when you call him (most of the time.) He's very excited at dinner time. Generally a good dog.

Here's the tough part, my older dog, Apollo, has gone to absolute shit. Seemingly overnight, he refuses to do anything he's told. Entirely disobedient. He runs off outside for 30 minutes at a time before coming home. He gets run away from the food by the puppy, which I don't really understand. I would think the bigger, older dog would be the alpha. But Apollo's behavior has been on a steady decline for the last two weeks. Anytime I tell him to do anything, he puts his ears down, looks all sad, and goes to bed like he's in trouble. And while the puppy has become housetrained very quickly, Apollo has taken to peeing and pooping in the house.

This came to a head about 30 minutes ago, when I was walking him (on a leash now, since he'll now run off if I don't use a leash) and he alternated between pulling constantly while growling, and basically laying down and being dragged. So when we got home, I went into the dogs room with him and asked him what was wrong, and went to pet him. That's when he bit me. I immediately gave him two hard smacks on the butt, during which he bit me again. This resulted in him getting thrown across the room and striking the wall about 4 feet off the ground. He then ran around the room growling and peeing and pooping everywhere. I removed Zeus (the puppy) from the room and locked him in there (after cleaning up the mess.) Now keep in mind I'm never mean to my animals. I can count on two hands the number of times he's been spanked, and all of them involved him either pooping on the floor (out of spite) or being excessively mean to the puppy (to the point of endangering it's life.)

I don't know what to do. I've always said I'd rather have an obedient dog than a happy dog, but this one seems unwilling to be either. He is very close to being put down. Help?

Either this is a joke thread, or you're admitting to animal cruelty.




 
I don't really think your losing control and hurtling the dog against the wall is gonna make this turn out too well. You should probably give up having a pet altogether. Those actions are unacceptable.


lawnchair
 
WTF, it's only been 2 weeks and you're bouncing your dog off the wall? Give it some more time. Yeah, cleaning up after your dog sucks, but still, it's just a dog. It could be worse and chewing on stuff and destroying your furniture.

Try separating them when they're eating so the puppy eating his food doesn't escalate the problem.

Did you follow any of the advice in here?
 
I would say contact your obedience instructor (unless it was petsmart) They are ofter well versed in animal behavior or can put you in touch with someone who is. My guess is that there is something going on between the 2 dogs that you are not picking up on. Or even your behavior towards the older dog has changed in some subtle way. Is the older dog neutered? Is the younger dog a male or female? Is it spayed/neutered? There could be lots of reasons for the behavior change. Don't give up on your doggy! Also something to keep in mind I noticed from what you typed you said the older dog should be alpha. YOU should always be the alpha with your dogs. As for who is in charge between the 2 dogs, just like people some dogs just aren't good leaders young or old. Just don't give up!
 
hmmm. asking the obedience instructor is certainly a good idea.

is there any way you could get the puppy to stay at your girlfriend's house? let your dog actually get used to you in his new home. even though it's been 3 months, you got him from the pound and he likely has had some tough situations in the past. above all, i really think you should refrain from hitting your dog. it just reinforces his aggressive behavior.

if there's really no way you can get your gf to take care of her dog in her own house, then try to keep the two dog's activities as separate as possible. certainly don't feed them in the same area. perhaps set up different areas for them to relax - at least in the short run. im sure eventually they'll get along.

on a separate note - i dont understand why your gf just bought a dog and brought it home without figuring out if it was a good idea. she should keep the dog at her place, at least for the short run.

AND, like others have said, don't give up on the dog!
 
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I don't really think your losing control and hurtling the dog against the wall is gonna make this turn out too well. You should probably give up having a pet altogether. Those actions are unacceptable.


lawnchair

this too
 
Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: Nebor
He is very close to being put down.

😕

I say get rid of Zeus. It's pretty obvious what the problem is if this all started when Zeus arrived.

But Zeus is acting good, like a good dog should. He loves Apollog and treats him like a big brother, but Apollo is mean to him, and mean to everyone else now. 🙁
 
Originally posted by: mooglemania85
Originally posted by: Nebor
This resulted in him getting thrown across the room and striking the wall about 4 feet off the ground.

nice job
/sarcasm

Well, I could have let him keep biting me I guess. But I'd prefer that he learn that biting people is not ok. He's never bitten before.
 
Originally posted by: ranmaniac
Originally posted by: Nebor
So I have an older dog (Apollo), 1.5 years old, we just got him about 3 months ago. He's a fawn chihuaha, was very well behaved, housebroken, etc. when we got him from the pound. He was hesitant to eat when we got him, and still never gets excited when it's dinner time for him. I had started taking him to obedience training, and he was very very good at it, top of his class. He quickly learned to sit, sit up, heel, halt, etc. He's always been VERY aggressive towards other dogs, even though he's only 18lbs himself, and most of the dogs he aggresses towards could kill him with one bite. But at training, he learned to get along well with other dogs too! He never strayed far even if you walked him without a leash. He would always come on command.

So anyway, 2 weeks ago my girlfriend brings home this 7 week old Yorkie puppy(Zeus.) He's 9 weeks now and weighs about 4lbs. I've gotten him house trained already, and he comes when you call him (most of the time.) He's very excited at dinner time. Generally a good dog.

Here's the tough part, my older dog, Apollo, has gone to absolute shit. Seemingly overnight, he refuses to do anything he's told. Entirely disobedient. He runs off outside for 30 minutes at a time before coming home. He gets run away from the food by the puppy, which I don't really understand. I would think the bigger, older dog would be the alpha. But Apollo's behavior has been on a steady decline for the last two weeks. Anytime I tell him to do anything, he puts his ears down, looks all sad, and goes to bed like he's in trouble. And while the puppy has become housetrained very quickly, Apollo has taken to peeing and pooping in the house.

This came to a head about 30 minutes ago, when I was walking him (on a leash now, since he'll now run off if I don't use a leash) and he alternated between pulling constantly while growling, and basically laying down and being dragged. So when we got home, I went into the dogs room with him and asked him what was wrong, and went to pet him. That's when he bit me. I immediately gave him two hard smacks on the butt, during which he bit me again. This resulted in him getting thrown across the room and striking the wall about 4 feet off the ground. He then ran around the room growling and peeing and pooping everywhere. I removed Zeus (the puppy) from the room and locked him in there (after cleaning up the mess.) Now keep in mind I'm never mean to my animals. I can count on two hands the number of times he's been spanked, and all of them involved him either pooping on the floor (out of spite) or being excessively mean to the puppy (to the point of endangering it's life.)

I don't know what to do. I've always said I'd rather have an obedient dog than a happy dog, but this one seems unwilling to be either. He is very close to being put down. Help?

Either this is a joke thread, or you're admitting to animal cruelty.

He's nearly 20lbs, and he bit me twice, I threw him away from me. When I went back to check on him 10 minutes ago, he was still growling and acting aggressive. I put some treats out leading into a dog kennel, and once he got inside I locked him up. He's acting better now, but I'm not letting him out any time soon. It's like he lost his freakin mind.
 
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I don't really think your losing control and hurtling the dog against the wall is gonna make this turn out too well. You should probably give up having a pet altogether. Those actions are unacceptable.


lawnchair

I've owned plenty of pets in my life, and they've all been happy and healthy. Apollo was happy until Zeus came along. He's just not adjusting well and I need help. I didn't lose control, I threw him away from me to keep him from biting me more.
 
Originally posted by: Izzo
WTF, it's only been 2 weeks and you're bouncing your dog off the wall? Give it some more time. Yeah, cleaning up after your dog sucks, but still, it's just a dog. It could be worse and chewing on stuff and destroying your furniture.

Try separating them when they're eating so the puppy eating his food doesn't escalate the problem.

Did you follow any of the advice in here?

I didn't throw the puppy. I threw the bigger, older one.
 
Nebor did you adopt apollo? It sounds like he had a bad time early in life. You got him at over a year old.

This is why I always get puppies, an older dog may have mental issues from bad owners.

The fact that he bit you means its time for him to go. The poop you can deal with but biting.. thats not a good sign.
 
Originally posted by: Izzo
WTF, it's only been 2 weeks and you're bouncing your dog off the wall? Give it some more time. Yeah, cleaning up after your dog sucks, but still, it's just a dog. It could be worse and chewing on stuff and destroying your furniture.

Try separating them when they're eating so the puppy eating his food doesn't escalate the problem.

Did you follow any of the advice in here?

I followed a lot of that advice, as best I could for coming home one day and seeing my girlfriend had gotten a new dog. I was perfectly happy with our one dog, Apollo. She was upset that he liked me better, I tried to explain to her that I was the alpha dog of the pack in his mind, and that any other dogs she got would like me better. Lo and behold, Zeus likes me better too. And now Apollo is an absolute heathen.
 
Wow. Put yourself down instead of the dog. There are so many issues here I don't know where to start.

maziwanka is correct. All of these issues with your current dog have occurred since your gf brought home the puppy. Has a light bulb popped up in your small brain yet?

I'm going to guess that you didn't introduce the Zeus to Apollo outside on neutral territory to see if they'd even get along. You know Apollo has aggression issues with other dogs and just brought Zeus into the house and gave him all of the attention.

Classic, clueless owner syndrome.
 
Originally posted by: lizardth
I would say contact your obedience instructor (unless it was petsmart) They are ofter well versed in animal behavior or can put you in touch with someone who is. My guess is that there is something going on between the 2 dogs that you are not picking up on. Or even your behavior towards the older dog has changed in some subtle way. Is the older dog neutered? Is the younger dog a male or female? Is it spayed/neutered? There could be lots of reasons for the behavior change. Don't give up on your doggy! Also something to keep in mind I noticed from what you typed you said the older dog should be alpha. YOU should always be the alpha with your dogs. As for who is in charge between the 2 dogs, just like people some dogs just aren't good leaders young or old. Just don't give up!

They are both males, both neutered before we got them.

Yes, I am the alpha with the dogs, I've read up on all of that. I'm always the first one out the door, I always eat first and then feed them, etc.
 
Originally posted by: maziwanka
hmmm. asking the obedience instructor is certainly a good idea.

is there any way you could get the puppy to stay at your girlfriend's house? let your dog actually get used to you in his new home. even though it's been 3 months, you got him from the pound and he likely has had some tough situations in the past. above all, i really think you should refrain from hitting your dog. it just reinforces his aggressive behavior.

if there's really no way you can get your gf to take care of her dog in her own house, then try to keep the two dog's activities as separate as possible. certainly don't feed them in the same area. perhaps set up different areas for them to relax - at least in the short run. im sure eventually they'll get along.

on a separate note - i dont understand why your gf just bought a dog and brought it home without figuring out if it was a good idea. she should keep the dog at her place, at least for the short run.

AND, like others have said, don't give up on the dog!

Yeah, having had a lot of pets in the past, and most of them being from shelters, I could tell that Apollo was abused when he was younger. He doesn't take well to criticism at all. It sends him into a tailspin where he acts all sad, stops listening entirely, and shuts down. And I don't feel there's anything wrong with giving a dog or cat a little swat to let them know they're doing something bad. And biting is definitely something very bad. It's not like I punched the dog, I spanked him with my hand, on his flank.

The dogs are both of ours. Joint dogs. Though she unilaterally decided to get the second one because "he was just too cute."

I'm very well reasoned, and I read up on a lot of stuff when we first got Apollo, and he turned out great. It's just that he's started backsliding severely, to the point of being entirely anti-social, and it's very distressing to me, and I'm sure to him.

He's sitting on my lap now as I type this, with Zeus. They're both laying down quitely, neither harassing the other. They don't normally hurt one another, though I do feel that sometimes Zeus annoys Apollo with all his puppy energy.

I just figured Apollo would adapt to the new dog, but instead he's getting progressively worse.
 
dogs are pretty perceptive, so if you are throwing off hostile nervous vibes, guess what, hes going to get mousy and nervous.
hitting a dog is not like another dog establishing pecking order. hitting a dog is going to make him very unstable. you establish dominance with your presence and actions, not with a beating. you need to spend some time making him aware that he is second on the pecking order and the new one is last. of course dont let him have his way with the new one, but your place is to establish an order that makes the environment clear and understandable. this poor dog is confused out of his mind.
 
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Wow. Put yourself down instead of the dog. There are so many issues here I don't know where to start.

maziwanka is correct. All of these issues with your current dog have occurred since your gf brought home the puppy. Has a light bulb popped up in your small brain yet?

I'm going to guess that you didn't introduce the Zeus to Apollo outside on neutral territory to see if they'd even get along. You know Apollo has aggression issues with other dogs and just brought Zeus into the house and gave him all of the attention.

Classic, clueless owner syndrome.

I've tried very very hard to give Apollo extra attention, more toys, more playtime, and more treats, but he still is very disobediant and anti-social.

Yes, it would have been better for them to meet on neutral ground, but I was at work when they met. Somethings you can't help, you just have to deal with.
 
Originally posted by: gururu2
dogs are pretty perceptive, so if you are throwing off hostile nervous vibes, guess what, hes going to get mousy and nervous.
hitting a dog is not like another dog establishing pecking order. hitting a dog is going to make him very unstable. you establish dominance with your presence and actions, not with a beating. you need to spend some time making him aware that he is second on the pecking order and the new one is last. of course dont let him have his way with the new one, but your place is to establish an order that makes the environment clear and understandable. this poor dog is confused out of his mind.

Jesus people, I've had pets before. I wasn't beating the dog into submission. He has always been well aware that I am the leader. He's just recently decided to stop listening to me. I spanked him because he BIT ME. If he BIT someone else, he would be put to sleep and I would be in legal trouble.
 
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