Does your calculus professor allow the use of calculators?

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: yoda291

Originally posted by: Booster
How are you going to calculate all these sin, cos, lg w/o a 'scientific' calclator? Maybe students should be forbidden to use calculators even at statistics classes?

calculators will hinder you for this. You're supposed to know the trig properties for sin and cos so that you can break and convert them to useable functions. If you use a calculator, all you'll have is a number, which makes some equations infinitely more difficult.

That depends entirely on your calculator.

In general.

Maybe, but if I type (sin(x))^2 + (cos(x))^2 into my calculator, it returns "1".

Well, duh.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Ylen13
Yes, well in high school we were required to have/use calculator.So in college if they don't let met use it i will drop class.Can't do it in the head.

If you rely on the calculator you won't know jack, you SHOULD be able to do it in your head. That's the whole point of banning the calculator, it's for your benefit.

You're a fool.

Viper GTS

0\/\/n3d

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Ylen13
Yes, well in high school we were required to have/use calculator.So in college if they don't let met use it i will drop class.Can't do it in the head.

If you rely on the calculator you won't know jack, you SHOULD be able to do it in your head. That's the whole point of banning the calculator, it's for your benefit.

You're a fool.

Viper GTS

Why should he be able to do it in his head? Give me any practical reason that someone would have to compute an antiderivitive in his head. Doing calculus by hand is an excercise in algebra, mostly. Why shouldn't you be able to let the calculator expand (2x^3+2x+2-6)(3x^2+4x+16)/(x2+4) for you?

 

[fluxquantum]

when i was in college as engineering student none of my profs allowed calculators. it was harder but it forced me to really know the material well.

 

[Ylen13]

Originally posted by: fluxquantum
when i was in college as engineering student none of my profs allowed calculators. it was harder but it forced me to really know the material well.

im business finance major.After i get out i will be using calculators in real world. So why should i be forced to do it in my head when i real world u use calculators.

 

[Kenji4861]

My Calc professor let us use notes/books/.. whatever we have.. ofcoarse I never bothered to study and I just studied during the test.. and I got an easy A!

The professor says : in the real world.. you will have these resources... so there's no point in trying to work them out without it...

 

[Dedpuhl]

Originally posted by: fluxquantum
when i was in college as engineering student none of my profs allowed calculators. it was harder but it forced me to really know the material well.

I used my calculator all the time during school (civil engr). We were required to show all work in all of my Calculus courses.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: Ylen13

Originally posted by: fluxquantum
when i was in college as engineering student none of my profs allowed calculators. it was harder but it forced me to really know the material well.

im business finance major.After i get out i will be using calculators in real world. So why should i be forced to do it in my head when i real world u use calculators.

Let me know where you end up working so I can stay the hell away.

You should at minimum be able to get a rough idea of the answer in your head, & the exact answer with the calculator.

Do I advocate doing calculus by hand if you have a calculator available?

Of course not.

But I also know that if you rely on the calculator you will be SOL when you actually need to KNOW the concepts, not just how to enter them into your TI.

Viper GTS

 

[AUMM]

I think its stupid not to allow the use of at least a Scientific Calculator. It wastes so much time during a test to multiply/divide huge @ss numbers, and it creates a bigger chance of making a stupid error which has nothing to do with whether or not you understand the main concepts.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: AUMM
I think its stupid not to allow the use of at least a Scientific Calculator. It wastes so much time during a test to multiply/divide huge @ss numbers, and it creates a bigger chance of making a stupid error which has nothing to do with whether or not you understand the main concepts.

Most calculus classes don't involve things like that.

Viper GTS

 

[oboeguy]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: AUMM
I think its stupid not to allow the use of at least a Scientific Calculator. It wastes so much time during a test to multiply/divide huge @ss numbers, and it creates a bigger chance of making a stupid error which has nothing to do with whether or not you understand the main concepts.

Most calculus classes don't involve things like that.

Viper GTS

Right on. Calculus class is about calculus, not using a calculator. Duh!

 

Mine did (Calc AB last year in high school). We used TI-83s.

 

[AUMM]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: AUMM
I think its stupid not to allow the use of at least a Scientific Calculator. It wastes so much time during a test to multiply/divide huge @ss numbers, and it creates a bigger chance of making a stupid error which has nothing to do with whether or not you understand the main concepts.

Most calculus classes don't involve things like that.

Viper GTS

Are you sure? Its been about 3 years since I took calc but i thought i remember having to do a lot of squaring and big additions, like on approximation problems? maybe im way off

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: AUMM
I think its stupid not to allow the use of at least a Scientific Calculator. It wastes so much time during a test to multiply/divide huge @ss numbers, and it creates a bigger chance of making a stupid error which has nothing to do with whether or not you understand the main concepts.

Most calculus classes don't involve things like that.

Viper GTS

This is true, you seldom see an actual number larger than 100 in a calculus class.

 

[Rainsford]

No, and I think any math teacher in college (or high school) who lets you use them should turn in their teaching certificate. I got out of high school not knowing jack about math, despite getting all A's in the classes. And once I hit real math in college, it was kind of tough. The class isn't about teaching you how to use a calculator, it's about learning the concepts. And anyone who says they can learn just as well with a calculator is wrong, you don't learn it as well. A calculator is a crutch because you don't see how it does what it does, so you never really understand how you are solving the problem. And while some people may think the whole idea of math as a "black box" where numbers go in and answers come out, if you don't understand the process, you'll never be able to use it in the "real world", calculator or not.

 

[yoda291]

Originally posted by: Ylen13

Originally posted by: fluxquantum
when i was in college as engineering student none of my profs allowed calculators. it was harder but it forced me to really know the material well.

im business finance major.After i get out i will be using calculators in real world. So why should i be forced to do it in my head when i real world u use calculators.

What happens when you run into something your calculator cannot do? Buy a more expensive calculator? What if that calculator can't handle it? Also, in business, it is very easy to find yourself in a situation where you are bombarded by numbers at a very fast pace. Ibanking is particularly bad in this, but other business fields are not exempt from it. Also, not every problem has/requires an exact solution. Why should you have to break out the calc when all you want to know is if something will come out positive or negative? Red ink or black? You should be able to get a picture in your head on HOW these numbers will work out because there will come a time when that calculator isn't handy or the power is out and your excel macros are far away. In order for any math problem to be solved, you need to know when to apply a concept, what concept to apply, and how to apply said concept. Also, if the extent of your knowledge in actually applying calculus stops at the calculator, you have essentially blocked off your future progression in math.

By your argument, why should we teach arithmetic in grade school when students can just punch things into the calculator? If we did that, everyone in the supermarket would be packing TIs and scam artists would have a field day whenever someone forgot theirs.

If doing calculus is really that bad for you, maybe you should look into alternatives. I know lots of schools will allow you to take an alternative math track for a business major.

 

[fluxquantum]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: Ylen13

Originally posted by: fluxquantum
when i was in college as engineering student none of my profs allowed calculators. it was harder but it forced me to really know the material well.

im business finance major.After i get out i will be using calculators in real world. So why should i be forced to do it in my head when i real world u use calculators.

Let me know where you end up working so I can stay the hell away.

You should at minimum be able to get a rough idea of the answer in your head, & the exact answer with the calculator.

Do I advocate doing calculus by hand if you have a calculator available?

Of course not.

But I also know that if you rely on the calculator you will be SOL when you actually need to KNOW the concepts, not just how to enter them into your TI.

Viper GTS

thanks viper. that's the message i was trying to get across to everyone. it is extremely important to understand the underlying concepts. as an engineer, i do use a calculator but i still have to do many things by hand. there are principles that one must grasp in order for a design to work. the calculator or computer is just an aid in my designs. i still rely mostly on my brain for the majority of things.

 

[Dedpuhl]

Originally posted by: yoda291

Originally posted by: Ylen13

Originally posted by: fluxquantum
when i was in college as engineering student none of my profs allowed calculators. it was harder but it forced me to really know the material well.

im business finance major.After i get out i will be using calculators in real world. So why should i be forced to do it in my head when i real world u use calculators.

What happens when you run into something your calculator cannot do? Buy a more expensive calculator? What if that calculator can't handle it? Also, in business, it is very easy to find yourself in a situation where you are bombarded by numbers at a very fast pace. Ibanking is particularly bad in this, but other business fields are not exempt from it. Also, not every problem has/requires an exact solution. Why should you have to break out the calc when all you want to know is if something will come out positive or negative? Red ink or black? You should be able to get a picture in your head on HOW these numbers will work out because there will come a time when that calculator isn't handy or the power is out and your excel macros are far away. In order for any math problem to be solved, you need to know when to apply a concept, what concept to apply, and how to apply said concept. Also, if the extent of your knowledge in actually applying calculus stops at the calculator, you have essentially blocked off your future progression in math.

By your argument, why should we teach arithmetic in grade school when students can just punch things into the calculator? If we did that, everyone in the supermarket would be packing TIs and scam artists would have a field day whenever someone forgot theirs.

If doing calculus is really that bad for you, maybe you should look into alternatives. I know lots of schools will allow you to take an alternative math track for a business major.

I don't think it's necessary to know the math (# crunching) behind the problem as long as you understand what is going on. Then again, it could depend on your profession/occupation...

 

[Ylen13]

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl

Originally posted by: yoda291

Originally posted by: Ylen13

Originally posted by: fluxquantum
when i was in college as engineering student none of my profs allowed calculators. it was harder but it forced me to really know the material well.

im business finance major.After i get out i will be using calculators in real world. So why should i be forced to do it in my head when i real world u use calculators.

What happens when you run into something your calculator cannot do? Buy a more expensive calculator? What if that calculator can't handle it? Also, in business, it is very easy to find yourself in a situation where you are bombarded by numbers at a very fast pace. Ibanking is particularly bad in this, but other business fields are not exempt from it. Also, not every problem has/requires an exact solution. Why should you have to break out the calc when all you want to know is if something will come out positive or negative? Red ink or black? You should be able to get a picture in your head on HOW these numbers will work out because there will come a time when that calculator isn't handy or the power is out and your excel macros are far away. In order for any math problem to be solved, you need to know when to apply a concept, what concept to apply, and how to apply said concept. Also, if the extent of your knowledge in actually applying calculus stops at the calculator, you have essentially blocked off your future progression in math.

By your argument, why should we teach arithmetic in grade school when students can just punch things into the calculator? If we did that, everyone in the supermarket would be packing TIs and scam artists would have a field day whenever someone forgot theirs.

If doing calculus is really that bad for you, maybe you should look into alternatives. I know lots of schools will allow you to take an alternative math track for a business major.

I don't think it's necessary to know the math (# crunching) behind the problem as long as you understand what is going on. Then again, it could depend on your profession/occupation...

let me repharse. I can do mulitplication/division in my head.Now when u get in to more complicated then that.its safer to use calculator then to do it in your head.

 

[yoda291]

Originally posted by: Ylen13

Originally posted by: Dedpuhl

Originally posted by: yoda291

Originally posted by: Ylen13

Originally posted by: fluxquantum
when i was in college as engineering student none of my profs allowed calculators. it was harder but it forced me to really know the material well.

im business finance major.After i get out i will be using calculators in real world. So why should i be forced to do it in my head when i real world u use calculators.

What happens when you run into something your calculator cannot do? Buy a more expensive calculator? What if that calculator can't handle it? Also, in business, it is very easy to find yourself in a situation where you are bombarded by numbers at a very fast pace. Ibanking is particularly bad in this, but other business fields are not exempt from it. Also, not every problem has/requires an exact solution. Why should you have to break out the calc when all you want to know is if something will come out positive or negative? Red ink or black? You should be able to get a picture in your head on HOW these numbers will work out because there will come a time when that calculator isn't handy or the power is out and your excel macros are far away. In order for any math problem to be solved, you need to know when to apply a concept, what concept to apply, and how to apply said concept. Also, if the extent of your knowledge in actually applying calculus stops at the calculator, you have essentially blocked off your future progression in math.

By your argument, why should we teach arithmetic in grade school when students can just punch things into the calculator? If we did that, everyone in the supermarket would be packing TIs and scam artists would have a field day whenever someone forgot theirs.

If doing calculus is really that bad for you, maybe you should look into alternatives. I know lots of schools will allow you to take an alternative math track for a business major.

I don't think it's necessary to know the math (# crunching) behind the problem as long as you understand what is going on. Then again, it could depend on your profession/occupation...

let me repharse. I can do mulitplication/division in my head.Now when u get in to more complicated then that.its safer to use calculator then to do it in your head.

It's fine to use a calculator when you don't want to make a mistake, but you're not in calculus to actually use your results. No one is relying on your solution for anything. You're there to learn how to do calculus. Let's face it, if all you wanted to know was what a derivative or integral was, you'd buy a book for 30 bux and that'd be the end of it. You don't learn anything from dropping numbers into a calculator. So if you want to use a calculator, great, but you won't have learned anything nor will you have applied what you have learned. So if you're not there to learn, why are you taking calc?

 

[ajskydiver]

Wow, I wonder how Newton and Leibnitz "discovered" calculus without a calulator? 😉

Seriously, everyone...we can't expect students today to apply themselves and learn the concepts...plugging numbers in an advanced scientific calculator is good enough!

Like they said, they'll always have these tools at their disposal...so why fight it.

And for everyone who believes the above about learning advanced math concepts...if you can't do it without a calculator AND you're unable to explain the concepts behind what you're doing...you don't know it well enough (if at all).

If you can't teach it to someone else...you don't understand it well enough; go back and study some more.

~AJ

Edit: Mistyped Leibnitz

 

[AUMM]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
No, and I think any math teacher in college (or high school) who lets you use them should turn in their teaching certificate. I got out of high school not knowing jack about math, despite getting all A's in the classes. And once I hit real math in college, it was kind of tough. The class isn't about teaching you how to use a calculator, it's about learning the concepts. And anyone who says they can learn just as well with a calculator is wrong, you don't learn it as well. A calculator is a crutch because you don't see how it does what it does, so you never really understand how you are solving the problem. And while some people may think the whole idea of math as a "black box" where numbers go in and answers come out, if you don't understand the process, you'll never be able to use it in the "real world", calculator or not.

thats stupid, throughout highschool my math teachers let me use calculators (Ti-86) and i took all the math classes, all the way up to Calc BC. I learned everything just fine, i really dont see you you can use a calculator to do your work if you dont know how to do it in the first place. Now in college most of my classes dont let me use a calculator but im still doing just fine.