Does this sound like BS to you? Does to me!

[Ratman6161]

I recently bought an OCZ Solid 3 SSD. To make a long story short, after about five days of futzing with it, I finally got my system stable with this drive as my Windows drive.

But...spending a lot of time on the OCZ support forum, I noted the moderators giving people the same advice over and over and over. I once posted a question on "why" but never got an answer.

They seem to want people to 1. disconnect the drive 2. Clear CMOS on the motherboard 3. Unplug the motherboard or pull the cord to remove external power 4. Pull the battery from the motherboard and 5. Let it sit that way for an hour before trying again.

So what's with the wait one hour? With the battery pulled and the power supply not providing any power because it's either turned off or unplugged, isn't it true that anything that's going to happen will happen in seconds - not an hour?????

Just asking this before I totally wave the BS flag on this just in case there is something I don't know????

 

[DaveSimmons]

"Magnets" -- Jack O'Neill

Actually: Capacitors.

They're probably guessing that the motherboard capacitors can power the CMOS for awhile after the battery has been removed. I have no idea whether this is true.

 

[Ratman6161]

"Magnets" -- Jack O'Neill

Actually: Capacitors.

They're probably guessing that the motherboard capacitors can power the CMOS for awhile after the battery has been removed. I have no idea whether this is true.

Well, yes, it is true. Its just that the capacitors will all be drained in a few seconds. I know of no reason why they think waiting an hour will make any difference.

 

[nanaki333]

overall, that seems like a lot of work to go through to get your expensive new toy to work. if i buy a new car and it makes a terrible rattling noise, i wouldn't expect the dealership to tell me to turn my car off, disconnect my battery, let it sit awhile, try it again, then have me go in and change spark plugs and such. i expect to be happily commuting the second i buy it.

 

[Coup27]

I recently bought an OCZ Solid 3 SSD.

I'm afraid this is where it all started to go wrong..

 

[E6700]

I recently bought an OCZ Solid 3 SSD.

I'm afraid this is where it all started to go wrong..

totally agree LOL.

 

[greenhawk]

motherboard capacitors counts for some of it, but most of the power in caps is in the power supply's caps. My old power supply, even unplugged from the wall, had enough power to attempt a startup when the switch was pressed. fans would spin several times (mostly costing to a stop) and same too for the HDD's.

It was the only way to fix the computer when it locked up for no reason and a re-set did nothing. Though for my computer, if you did not unplug and try to start to clear the power in the caps, leaving the computer for an hour was generally not enough to get it working again.

 

[Idontcare]

Well, yes, it is true. Its just that the capacitors will all be drained in a few seconds. I know of no reason why they think waiting an hour will make any difference.

Its true, most of the caps on most of the mobos out there will lose their charge within a few seconds.

But OCZ tech support is dealing with a wide variety of customers and mobos, and asking them to leave their system in a "discharge" state for an hour is not going to introduce secondary problems, whereas asking them to discharge for 10s could very well leave open the possibility of some customers still having issues.

Rest assured these guys are not enjoying the part of their job wherein they are dealing with irritated and pissed off customers. They don't relish in the idea of asking their customers to leave their mobo in the discharge state for an hour at a time.

So if you find them to be suggesting, recommending, that customers do things which you feel to be needless or superfluous, you really ought to conclude "damn, I had no idea that was really necessary for some mobo's out there" rather than concluding "damn, I had no idea the most experienced troubleshooters on OCZ's payroll are so clueless".

I had a mobo once, it was either a gigabyte or an asus I forget now, that would NOT drain the CMOS settings even if I removed the battery and set the jumper UNLESS I also completely removed the power cord from the PSU (or the wall)...simply switching off the PSU was not enough.

That frustrated me to no end until I realized it was the solution.

Lord only knows how many weird cases the OCZ guys come across wherein the only solution is to literally leave your mobo in the discharge state for an hour. But I believe it, the number is an hour, not 15min or 45 min, for a reason, they aren't in the business of just making this crap up for the heck of it.

 

[Eug]

But I believe it, the number is an hour, not 15min or 45 min, for a reason, they aren't in the business of just making this crap up for the heck of it.

That's a pretty big leap of faith.

One might just as easily conclude that 1 hour was chosen simply because it's a long time and it's a nice round number.

 

[Nothinman]

overall, that seems like a lot of work to go through to get your expensive new toy to work. if i buy a new car and it makes a terrible rattling noise, i wouldn't expect the dealership to tell me to turn my car off, disconnect my battery, let it sit awhile, try it again, then have me go in and change spark plugs and such. i expect to be happily commuting the second i buy it.

Except that's almost never the case, especially when Windows is involved. There's just too many variables when buying random parts. If you bought a complete, built and tested PC you would have an analogy but that's not the case here. If you bought a new aftermarket stereo for you car, I could definitely see tech support for the stereo giving you funky suggestions on how to get it to work in your car that you might not immediately consider.

One might just as easily conclude that 1 hour was chosen simply because it's a long time and it's a nice round number.

Most likely this. In all their troubleshooting so far they've probably yet to see one that lasts beyond the 45-55 minute mark so they tell everyone an hour just to be safe.

 

[groberts101]

this is part of the problem over there. People read some random post and automatically assume that the "official" rec is to do that for every ocassion/system out there.

Not the case at all as most of the posts I see over there(and I see a lot) are typically in the 5-10 minute range for CMOS/PSU drains.

Then there's the constant debating and "ever so slight" deviation from the rec'd procedures which usually end's up half-assing the troubleshooting/process of elimination and prolong's the misery for those that are too hard headed to heed the advice exactly as instructed. Crap like.. "I did EXACTLY as the guide said.. but I know my RAM and CPU are stable cause they passed the test's so I kept my OC intact. Also the XMP profiles are tested by the ram mfgr to be stable and they wouldn't rate them like that if they weren't.. so it can't possibly be that." Makes one wonder what part of "baseline testing" they don't understand.

And if the OP has proof of those types of posts/rec's(aside from maybe a random post or ocassional brainfart)?.. I'd surely like to see that link.

 

[Ratman6161]

this is part of the problem over there. People read some random post and automatically assume that the "official" rec is to do that for every ocassion/system out there.

Not the case at all as most of the posts I see over there(and I see a lot) are typically in the 5-10 minute range for CMOS/PSU drains.

Then there's the constant debating and "ever so slight" deviation from the rec'd procedures which usually end's up half-assing the troubleshooting/process of elimination and prolong's the misery for those that are too hard headed to heed the advice exactly as instructed. Crap like.

Quit being a A$$ H0(e dude. You work for OCZ or something? I did not read some random post. I read nearly every post on their site over the course of about five days trying to get their product to work. By the way, on my very first post there I posted a list of about 25 steps I had been through and they actually no advice for me at all other than to RMA. After that I got it working on my own.

I cant be bothered to go back and read those postings....again...just because some idiot chooses not to believe me. After five days of wasted time, I don't feel like wasting even more on you.

 

[pugh]

I'm afraid this is where it all started to go wrong..

No doubt. Before I built a new pc back in July, I researched around on which ssd I would buy and OCZ was one of the ones I knew to avoid.

 

[exdeath]

Remove AC power. Remove CMOS battery. Hit power button to let it attempt to start and burn any residual power instantly. Additionally short leads in battery connector with a screw driver just in case. No more charged caps. Not possible.

1 hour lol. Just a way to keep you busy, like how tech support always tells you to run scan disk and defrag and call back. They just want to tie you up and get you off the phone because they don't have a clue what the problem is.

 

[Elixer]

1 hour lol. Just a way to keep you busy, like how tech support always tells you to run scan disk and defrag and call back. They just want to tie you up and get you off the phone because they don't have a clue what the problem is.

Yeah, that is pretty much the only reason.
Like all the advice to 'reinstall windows' when they don't want to debug problems ... just busy work 99.999% of the time.

For what it is worth, once you unplug the system, and remove the CMOS battery, if you hit the power switch a few times, then you are good to go.
That zaps all remaining power in the system.

 

[techie81]

My advice to you is: Pack up drive, send back to the store you bought it from and get a dependable drive from a company other than OCZ.

 

[groberts101]

Quit being a A$$ H0(e dude. You work for OCZ or something?

LOL.. you seem to have that title for this thread if you can't listen to anyone else's opinion. Why even pose it as a question if you don't want any actual answers cuase you have it all figured out?

Wait.. let me guess.. you don't like OCZ and just want to flame a bit more. As if this forum needs another flamer, eh?

Funniest thing after all this useless posturing?.. OROM's, drivers, updates, and finally SF firmware.. will continue to pave the way for system stability. Regardless of what you(or I) think the cause is. But since some people get a kick out of slandering and venting out against OCZ?.. knock yerself out. With the other posters responses here?.. you seem to be in good hands. :thumbsup:

 

[Old Hippie]

But OCZ tech support is dealing with a wide variety of customers and mobos, and asking them to leave their system in a "discharge" state for an hour is not going to introduce secondary problems, whereas asking them to discharge for 10s could very well leave open the possibility of some customers still having issues.

Rest assured these guys are not enjoying the part of their job wherein they are dealing with irritated and pissed off customers. They don't relish in the idea of asking their customers to leave their mobo in the discharge state for an hour at a time.

Lord only knows how many weird cases the OCZ guys come across wherein the only solution is to literally leave your mobo in the discharge state for an hour. But I believe it, the number is an hour, not 15min or 45 min, for a reason, they aren't in the business of just making this crap up for the heck of it.

I have no doubt this is absolutely true.

On top of that, groberts101 mentioned what all RMA/Troubleshooting depts go thru....people that absolutely know what their doing when in reality they have NO idea. Kinda like a NewEgg reviewer. :biggrin:

OCZ created many of these problems all by themselves and are now reaping the rewards of their conduct.

It couldn't have happened to a nicer company.

 

[chusteczka]

I fail to see the problem people are having with installing OCZ SSD drives, specifically the sata 3 versions. This past week, I installed an OCZ Agility 3 AGT3-25SAT3-120G 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) into my system.

This drive was already updated to the latest firmware v2.11. The latest drivers can be obtained here.
http://www.ocztechnology.com/ssd_to...y_3,_Solid_3,_RevoDrive_3_and_RevoDrive_3_X2/

Here is the procedure I used to install the SSD.

1. I shutdown my system,
2. connected the SSD as a non-primary drive,
3. ensured my bios was set to recognize AHCI drivers,
4. disabled plug 'n' play in the bios,
5. booted the system from my HDD,
6. used Acronis to image my system HDD and copied the image to the SSD,
7. connected the SSD as the system drive,
8. booted the system from the SSD,
9. Win7 auto-loaded the drivers,
10. the system rebooted,
11. and everything just works.

WEI is 7.9, my system has run for three days now with absolutely no problems.


My decision to purchase OCZ was solidified after reading this thread.
Sandforce 22xx drives - issues fixed yet?


Coup27 provided a blog link stating the professional actions OCZ is taking to fix the problems stubborn customers are having with OCZ SSD's.

OCZ - Where we are with Vertex3/Agility3/Solid3 drives?


I am very impressed with the proactive approach shown by OCZ in troubleshooting the problems. OCZ is putting themselves on the line to support their product. I have never seen such involved customer service from any company before.

Comments made by groberts101 have impressed me while comments made by Coup27 have not. Although I am grateful for the OCZ blog link he provided.


EDIT:
Added step (4) in above procedure, "disabled plug 'n' play in the bios".

 

[Eug]

I fail to see the problem people are having with installing OCZ SSD drives, specifically the sata 3 versions. This past week, I installed an OCZ Agility 3 AGT3-25SAT3-120G 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) into my system.

Most people have no problems. If you are one of them then great.

However, it really does seem the minority of people who do have problems is significantly larger with those owning OCZ Sandforce drives than other brands in general. Plus, there are an awful lot of people with drives that simply die after a few months. Hopefully you won't be one of them.

Good luck.

I am very impressed with the proactive approach shown by OCZ in troubleshooting the problems. OCZ is putting themselves on the line to support their product. I have never seen such involved customer service from any company before.

I am quite disappointed by the approach of OCZ towards its customers. Even Anand called them out on it in one of his reviews, regarding the 34 nm vs 25 nm issue. That, and the numerous issues with Sandforce drives, and the very odd posts by OCZ representatives in their forum is enough to convince me to avoid OCZ drives completely.

In the days before their big SSD push, I used to consider OCZ a 2nd tier company. That's OK, because not everyone can be a 1st tier company. Howver, nowadays I wouldn't even consider them that. They're just in my "avoid" category.

 

[chusteczka]

It seems that I need to read up on the issues in the Anandtech articles before stepping in. I was just surprised to experience no problems after reading all the negative remarks here. In my successful, single SSD experience, there seems to be a big disconnect between what is available on the market and the many unsuccessful experiences people are claiming to have.

It makes it further seem as if the people experiencing problems are making noob mistakes. Maybe I am wrong and just got lucky. I will definitely return if mine happens to fail, even four months from now.

 

[Eug]

Anand was very diplomatic in his article, but I can understand it because AT is a big tech site and not just some random individual. However, the mere fact that this was highlighted in his article tells you there was something big going on.

AnandTech: The OCZ Vertex 3 Review

I promised you all I would look into this issue when I got back from MWC. As is usually the case, a bunch of NDAs showed up, more product releases happened and testing took longer than expected. Long story short, it took me far too long to get around to the issue of varying NAND performance in SF-1200 drives.

What put me over the edge was the performance of the 32nm Hynix drives. For the past two months everyone has been arguing over 34nm vs 25nm however the issue isn't just limited to those two NAND types. In fact, SSD manufacturers have been shipping varying NAND configurations for years now. I've got a stack of Indilinx drives with different types of NAND, all with different performance characteristics. Admittedly I haven't seen performance vary as much as it has with SandForce on 34nm IMFT vs. 25nm IMFT vs. 32nm Hynix.

I wrote OCZ's CEO, Ryan Petersen, and Executive Vice President, Alex Mei, an email outlining my concerns last week:

---

However here is another concerning article:

Understanding SandForce's SF-1200 & SF-1500, Not All Drives are Equal

And here’s where things get messy. SandForce distributed 3.0.1 to all of its partners (so much for that exclusivity agreement), and some of its partners have decided to sample reviewers or even ship based on 3.0.1. Note that even OCZ’s Vertex LE shipped using the SF-1500 version of this firmware. If SandForce indeed distributed the above slide to all of its partners, no drive should've shipped with RC firmware. That's a separate issue entirely and I've been working with both SandForce and the companies involved to see what we can do about curbing this (or at least get me the information so that I can make it clear when a product is using non-MP firmware).

The Corsair Force drive that has been sent out for reviews and that’s currently shipping today uses SandForce’s 3.0.1 firmware.

In fairness, this is not specifically an OCZ issue in this case but a Sandforce issue, but nonetheless the end result is the same, potential issues with drive reliability.

 

[chusteczka]

Thank you for pulling out the main points. That is much appreciated.

 

[deimos3428]

But OCZ tech support is dealing with a wide variety of customers and mobos, and asking them to leave their system in a "discharge" state for an hour is not going to introduce secondary problems, whereas asking them to discharge for 10s could very well leave open the possibility of some customers still having issues.

It's an old tech-guy trick: have the remote user step awaaaaay for a long while to be sure they aren't fiddling with the machine in some way and not mentioning it.

 

[Idontcare]

It seems that I need to read up on the issues in the Anandtech articles before stepping in. I was just surprised to experience no problems after reading all the negative remarks here. In my successful, single SSD experience, there seems to be a big disconnect between what is available on the market and the many unsuccessful experiences people are claiming to have.

It makes it further seem as if the people experiencing problems are making noob mistakes. Maybe I am wrong and just got lucky. I will definitely return if mine happens to fail, even four months from now.

Same here.

I was prepared for the worst with my OCZ V3 purchase, but I was curious and figured I'd give it shot.

Zero issues. What can I say, I am happy I got what I paid for but it does make me wonder how it is that the vocal majority doesn't (or they aren't, because they haven't actually bought the SSD they are bitching about, they are just parroting something they heard elsewhere for sh!ts and g!ggles)