Does this annoy anyone else that plays sports games????

[Codewiz]

I tend to play football games on consoles and on the computer. I play just about any and all of them.

Right now I am playing EA Sports NCAA Football 2003. It is a really fun game but just like every other game I feel that the computer "cheats". It really doesn't affect me much because I play a highly run oriented offense. I throw maybe 5-6 passes a game. I don't care if the computer knows I am running the ball because I can gain yards regardless if they put 8 people in the box.

What gets me is the fact that I will run the ball for 98% of the game and out of the blue call a pass play and of course the defense will line up in a pass offense. The pass play will be in the same formation that I run the ball with. It just agravates me that the computer doesn't look at play calling to decide what defense to call but instead actually looks at what you call.

You could say it is just random that it happens but I can show it repeatedly.

Is there a reason no one programs the game to take into past play calls, yards needed and the down? I mean if it is 3 and 10 and I have passed all game then they should line up in a pass defense. I will have 3 and inches and I will run a pass play after running the ball all game and the computer will of course call a pass defense. When that happens I just QB sneak it.

Of course when I get XBOX live it will take care of the problem.

 

[Softballslug]

The task you would describe would involve some form of artificial intelligence which is not easy to program. Its easier to cheat!

 

[amdwolfman]

Can't wait to have games come out that have spectacular AI. I would hope it would get to know the players habits,and build on them. Not too far off now . U see it in some games now,but it is repetitive from AI as it only has so much Intelligence to date.
Awesome topic,I have thought of AI in games also,

 

[ATLien247]

I don't understand what you're complaining about...

Let's say you're lining up in an I formation, which you have been using to run all game. Regardless of if your next play call is going to be a run or a pass, you still have two receivers and a tight end lining up. The computer is not stupid enough to not put a defender on an offensive player that is on the line of scrimmage.

Maybe you could be more specific on how the computer is "cheating"?

 

[Queasy]

One fun way I have found to cheat the AI in NCAA 2003 is to line up in a heavy run formation like a Power I, audible to a pass play with 4 or 5 receivers, then audible back to a run play. When you audible to the pass play the defense will audible to a pass defense like a nickle or a dime. When you audible back to a heavy run formation th defense will stay in the pass defense. Also works the other way around.

On the AI note, I don't know of a single football game where the AI tracks tendencies. It would be nice but I guess the programmers have to cheat a little with the AI.

 

[PoPPeR]

the thing that annoys me about football games are that the computer never runs enough. Especially in madden, where every reciever is > then Jerry Rice in his prime. Yes, the computer "cheats", but i've gone 40-40 before with my quarterback. Wait for the open man, make the smart play, read their defense, dont' force it, just like real quarterbacks do. Unfortunately for me, that's the only time i'll be directing a high powered offense to the end zone

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: PoPPeR
the thing that annoys me about football games are that the computer never runs enough. Especially in madden, where every reciever is > then Jerry Rice in his prime. Yes, the computer "cheats", but i've gone 40-40 before with my quarterback. Wait for the open man, make the smart play, read their defense, dont' force it, just like real quarterbacks do. Unfortunately for me, that's the only time i'll be directing a high powered offense to the end zone

I'm hooked on Madden 2003 for the PS2 for the time being, and I can partially agree with you.

On the other hand, the reason that the computer passes so much on me is because my D-Line usually stops any runs up the middle for minimal gain or loss of yardage. If they try to run a sweep, since I prefer to control the FS position, I keep an eye out for that and can stop that most times as well. And since the computer can't run well on me, then they have no choice but to pass.

At the end of the season, my defense is ranked first in defending against the run, and near last for pass defense.

 

[poopaskoopa]

Originally posted by: ATLien247

Originally posted by: PoPPeR
the thing that annoys me about football games are that the computer never runs enough. Especially in madden, where every reciever is > then Jerry Rice in his prime. Yes, the computer "cheats", but i've gone 40-40 before with my quarterback. Wait for the open man, make the smart play, read their defense, dont' force it, just like real quarterbacks do. Unfortunately for me, that's the only time i'll be directing a high powered offense to the end zone

I'm hooked on Madden 2003 for the PS2 for the time being, and I can partially agree with you.

On the other hand, the reason that the computer passes so much on me is because my D-Line usually stops any runs up the middle for minimal gain or loss of yardage. If they try to run a sweep, since I prefer to control the FS position, I keep an eye out for that and can stop that most times as well. And since the computer can't run well on me, then they have no choice but to pass.

At the end of the season, my defense is ranked first in defending against the run, and near last for pass defense.

This would also happen if you're up by a few touchdowns. Try to let the computer have more points than you during a game and see if they run more. You'd better not let me see you controlling the FS, or I'll get 15 yards on every play .

 

[BD231]

Madden is still pretty horrible when it comes to AI (better than anything else out there right now), I'm still addicted to it though, I've found ways to keep the game VERY realistic. I myself am all about the franchise mode, and if you have ever played a few franchise years you notice your linemen turn to sh*t every year in terms of progression on skill level pro and up. For some reason the idiot phucks at EA made Madden strictly through variables of cpu-vs-cpu simulation, meaning AI has no effect on the simulation. When you go to a user controlled season things get ugly, REAL ugly. Your line man and everyone outside of the person you have under control and or pass to is completely controlled by the AI of Madden, as a result your lineman on Offense an D are complete idiots 90% of the game. They don't get push when running, they get laid out on their backs by linemen who are extremely weaker than them, things are just a mess. The only way to counter these downsides is putting your game into all-madden mode, then decreasing pass and run blocking considerably along with RB ability to the CPU team. You also have to increase your D awareness to 60% or even Ray Lewis becomes and idiot. The real problem comes down to the QB, they are way to effective when being rushed or throwing horrible throws. If you drop QB accruacy to just 45%, the QB will miss every key in the game. I remember an instance where steve mcnair went down and his back up, rated at 51 overall, with an accuracy rating of 60 and awareness of 32 passed for over 250 yards with every throw being HORRIBLY off target. Wide Recievers break of routes and make complete 180s in a full sprint then have time to run back to the sh*tty pass and break for a 20 or 30 yard gain because your D AI is trying to figure out what the hell just happened.

The game is horribly skewed, I fear AI will never be acceptable, sports games are pretty much all I play to .

 

[N8Magic]

On the higher difficulty levels, the computer definitely cheats, especially in EA games.

Last year when my roommate and I set out to beat FIFA 2002 on Championship (highest difficulty), we both sat back in awe as the computer executed shots and lob passes that there simply wasn't a button for. NHL 2003 isn't much different... I can beat anyone I know quite badly, but on All Star level the computer smokes me 10-1.

 

[BDawg]

I still want to know how Madden 2003 has the ability for call challenges. How does a computer miss a call to be challenged???

 

[poopaskoopa]

Yeah, the receivers are a little too competent... My defense seems to make pro bowlers out of every QB and WRs, but the game does allow you to get fair amount of turn overs, mostly off zone coverage picks. I like playing D-line until the ball gets across the line of scrimmage(Julius Peppers rocks!).

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: poopaskoopa

You'd better not let me see you controlling the FS, or I'll get 15 yards on every play .

Not if you're gonna try to run on me!

(Passing's a different story...)

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Codewiz
I tend to play football games on consoles and on the computer. I play just about any and all of them.

Right now I am playing EA Sports NCAA Football 2003. It is a really fun game but just like every other game I feel that the computer "cheats". It really doesn't affect me much because I play a highly run oriented offense. I throw maybe 5-6 passes a game. I don't care if the computer knows I am running the ball because I can gain yards regardless if they put 8 people in the box.

What gets me is the fact that I will run the ball for 98% of the game and out of the blue call a pass play and of course the defense will line up in a pass offense. The pass play will be in the same formation that I run the ball with. It just agravates me that the computer doesn't look at play calling to decide what defense to call but instead actually looks at what you call.

You could say it is just random that it happens but I can show it repeatedly.

Is there a reason no one programs the game to take into past play calls, yards needed and the down? I mean if it is 3 and 10 and I have passed all game then they should line up in a pass defense. I will have 3 and inches and I will run a pass play after running the ball all game and the computer will of course call a pass defense. When that happens I just QB sneak it.

Of course when I get XBOX live it will take care of the problem.

Yeah, it bugs me too. It seems they got someone in my huddle. They always know what play I'm gonna call.

 

[Kev]

Well my experience comes from NBA live, where I could be destroying a team, but then the computer kicks in its rubber-band AI and starts stealing every shot, hitting fade away 3-pointers (like 9/9 in a quarter) and every time I touch the other team its a foul. Re-god-damn-diculous.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: ATLien247
I don't understand what you're complaining about...

Let's say you're lining up in an I formation, which you have been using to run all game. Regardless of if your next play call is going to be a run or a pass, you still have two receivers and a tight end lining up. The computer is not stupid enough to not put a defender on an offensive player that is on the line of scrimmage.

Maybe you could be more specific on how the computer is "cheating"?

That has NOTHING to do with what I am talking about. I typically run in an I formation and when I run the ball the whole game the defense lines up in either a 4-3 defense or a 4-4 defense. NEVER do they line up in a nickel or a dime defense. But of course if I call a pass play in the I formation it is amazing, they come out in the Dime defense which is just BS. Why would you call Dime defense when I don't change anything except the play I run. I expect them to cover my receivers every down.

It wouldn't be that hard to track tendencies......

I mean hell the computer "learns" that I like to run to the right so they always shift the d-line to their left to try to stop me. It obviously keeps up with something. All it needs to do is look at how many passing and rushing yards I have. If I have 200 rush yards and 20 passing then they should be lining up in the run defense until I start passing(Not line up in dime the first time I call a pass play). I just don't see why it isn't implemented.

I don't expect perfect AI but I expect something other than just calling a defense because it knows what I am going to run. As for cheating the defense is kinda lame. I am not going to call audibles because I know I can get a favorable d-set because of a bug in the game.

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

That has NOTHING to do with what I am talking about. I typically run in an I formation and when I run the ball the whole game the defense lines up in either a 4-3 defense or a 4-4 defense. NEVER do they line up in a nickel or a dime defense. But of course if I call a pass play in the I formation it is amazing, they come out in the Dime defense which is just BS. Why would you call Dime defense when I don't change anything except the play I run. I expect them to cover my receivers every down.

That is precisely why I asked you to be more specific. I've never played NCAA Football 2003, so I based my speculation on Madden 2003.

It sounds to me that NCAA Football 2003 has a major AI problem, and does indeed cheat.

Maybe you should play Madden 2003 instead. I highly recommend it!

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: ATLien247

Originally posted by: Codewiz

That has NOTHING to do with what I am talking about. I typically run in an I formation and when I run the ball the whole game the defense lines up in either a 4-3 defense or a 4-4 defense. NEVER do they line up in a nickel or a dime defense. But of course if I call a pass play in the I formation it is amazing, they come out in the Dime defense which is just BS. Why would you call Dime defense when I don't change anything except the play I run. I expect them to cover my receivers every down.

That is precisely why I asked you to be more specific. I've never played NCAA Football 2003, so I based my speculation on Madden 2003.

It sounds to me that NCAA Football 2003 has a major AI problem, and does indeed cheat.

Maybe you should play Madden 2003 instead. I highly recommend it!

Actually it is almost the same game as Madden 2003 I have Madden 2003 for my XBOX and for the PC. Madden does the same crap. The reason I notice such things is simply the way I like to play the game. Every football game I have ever played is like that.

Although when playing Madden 2k3 I do tend to pass more because I can't pick up 3 and 15 so I have to pass. On NCAA 2003 I can get enough on long 3rd downs to make it worth going for on 4th down.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: ATLien247

Originally posted by: Codewiz

That has NOTHING to do with what I am talking about. I typically run in an I formation and when I run the ball the whole game the defense lines up in either a 4-3 defense or a 4-4 defense. NEVER do they line up in a nickel or a dime defense. But of course if I call a pass play in the I formation it is amazing, they come out in the Dime defense which is just BS. Why would you call Dime defense when I don't change anything except the play I run. I expect them to cover my receivers every down.

That is precisely why I asked you to be more specific. I've never played NCAA Football 2003, so I based my speculation on Madden 2003.

It sounds to me that NCAA Football 2003 has a major AI problem, and does indeed cheat.

Maybe you should play Madden 2003 instead. I highly recommend it!

Madden has the same problems. Exact same issues apply.

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Madden has the same problems. Exact same issues apply.

Really?

I've never noticed it. Then again, I like to vary my play calling.

I know that the computer will automatically be in nickle, dime, or quarter formation if I have a three, four, or five wide receiver set.

I swear I've seen the computer line up in 4-6 when I'm in I form and have called a pass play...

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: ATLien247

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Madden has the same problems. Exact same issues apply.

Really?

I've never noticed it. Then again, I like to vary my play calling.

I know that the computer will automatically be in nickle, dime, or quarter formation if I have a three, four, or five wide receiver set.

I swear I've seen the computer line up in 4-6 when I'm in I form and have called a pass play...

Try calling 10 running plays, and then suddenly switch to a deep pass play from the same formation as the running play. The defence will adjust for a pass play. Why?

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: ATLien247

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Madden has the same problems. Exact same issues apply.

Really?

I've never noticed it. Then again, I like to vary my play calling.

I know that the computer will automatically be in nickle, dime, or quarter formation if I have a three, four, or five wide receiver set.

I swear I've seen the computer line up in 4-6 when I'm in I form and have called a pass play...

Oh I agree that if you vary your call playing you probably won't notice it. If I were playing a REAL person then I would have to be a little more creative and do some screens type plays. I have always loved power football so that is just how I play. It is just really noticable when all you do is run and the one time you call a pass play the defense "magically" comes out with the dime

I actually just cut off NCAA 2003 in the 4th quarter because I totally got fed up with the BS it did. I normally take my losses like a man.

I am playing a dynasty with Clemson University(I graduated from there) and I setup my out of conference schedule with the hardest teams I could. I lost 3 games to top 5 tops by less than 7 points each game. I was 1-3 to start the season. That is fine with me. I was playing 24th ranked Maryland(7-3) and I am 6-4 right now. I got into the 5 yard line 6 times. I dominated the game. I fumbled every time with different players. The score was 7-3 with them leading with 45 seconds left in the game and I was on the 3 yard line ready to score for the win. I fumbled and they ran it back for the touchdown. I was totally fed up because that just doesn't happen. I wouldn't have been so mad had I only fumbled 3 times but to fumble 6 times in a game is just retarded especially since it happened everytime I was getting ready to score. That on top of the fact that my CB would stand there and get hit by the ball and not get an INT when I am leading the NCAA in INTs for the season. I just hate when the computer pulls BS and cheats.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: ATLien247

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Madden has the same problems. Exact same issues apply.

Really?

I've never noticed it. Then again, I like to vary my play calling.

I know that the computer will automatically be in nickle, dime, or quarter formation if I have a three, four, or five wide receiver set.

I swear I've seen the computer line up in 4-6 when I'm in I form and have called a pass play...

Try calling 10 running plays, and then suddenly switch to a deep pass play from the same formation as the running play. The defence will adjust for a pass play. Why?

I run ALL running plays all game and I will just out of the blue in the 4th quarter call a pass play and the defense will come out in the dime. This is all in the same formations that I run the ball in. What also makes me mad is the fact that I can start a game running in the shotgun throwing the ball for two series and then switch to running the ball in the shotgun. The first running play I call, the computer will call a 4-3 defense which is also BS.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: ATLien247

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Madden has the same problems. Exact same issues apply.

Really?

I've never noticed it. Then again, I like to vary my play calling.

I know that the computer will automatically be in nickle, dime, or quarter formation if I have a three, four, or five wide receiver set.

I swear I've seen the computer line up in 4-6 when I'm in I form and have called a pass play...

Try calling 10 running plays, and then suddenly switch to a deep pass play from the same formation as the running play. The defence will adjust for a pass play. Why?

I run ALL running plays all game and I will just out of the blue in the 4th quarter call a pass play and the defense will come out in the dime. This is all in the same formations that I run the ball in. What also makes me mad is the fact that I can start a game running in the shotgun throwing the ball for two series and then switch to running the ball in the shotgun. The first running play I call, the computer will call a 4-3 defense which is also BS.

Agreed and agreed. Damn EA cheaters.

 

[ATLien247]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Try calling 10 running plays, and then suddenly switch to a deep pass play from the same formation as the running play. The defence will adjust for a pass play. Why?

Like I said, I like to vary my play calling. There's no way I would call that many running plays in a row. Maybe four or five times in a row at the most.

If you're reading the defense correctly, then it wouldn't matter what the computer does.

I like to send a receiver in motion to see if they're in man or zone coverage. Based on that, if I've called the right play, then I know what my route progression is going to be. If the computer has me at a disadvantage, then I'll call an audible to compensate, or call a time out depending on the down situation.

Even if the computer does "cheat", what's to keep you from adapting? Nothing.

Besides, if you're running the ball on every down and gaining eight yards each time, you should probably increase the game's difficulty level. And if the difficulty level is all the way up, and you're still gaining that much yardage, then I would find myself another game to play.