Does the U.S. deserve the criticism?

[arsbanned]

I'm not known as a great defender of the current administration and have been loudly denouncing their anemic response to this hurricane.
However, I've noticed in some threads about Katrina there is a small chorus of people from other countries claiming some sort of moral high ground and attacking the U.S., almost enjoying pointing up our faults, as though they have none.
The flooding in 2002 in Europe doesn't begin to come close to the force generated by Katrina and yet we saw much of the same things occuring there that we are seeing on the Gulf coast of the U.S.
Perhaps we should examine why Europeans and others seem to be taking advantage of this tragedy and using it as a time to point out American faults. One of their faults would seem to be a lack of empathy with a good dose of hypocrisy.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Dude, no matter what kind of stereotypes you're trying to raise, the fact is that your country is pouring billions (and trillions) of $$$ into a war that's alarming the planet and receiving criticism from all over the world, while your own people are dying... not to mention that a mere 300 million people use 25 percent of the Earth's natural resources...etc...etc... all the while while claiming not only "moral superiority", like you say, but also a God-given right to govern the rest of mankind.

If you're trying to lead by example, you're failing miserably.

 

[arsbanned]

"Dude"
I and MANY OTHER AMERICANS agree with your sentiment on the Iraq war! Let's try separate the issues and not use a tragedy to gloat over your self-perceived superiority.
What stereotypes? If anyone is relying on stereotypes, it is you. Why don't you dispute the gist of my claim, that Europeans behave similarly in horrendous conditions and do not possess this superiority you claim.
Leading by example? Right now we're trying to survive, just like Europeans do when struck by tragedies beyond their control!
Leave the high horse at the door.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Dude, no matter what kind of stereotypes you're trying to raise, the fact is that your country is pouring billions (and trillions) of $$$ into a war that's alarming the planet and receiving criticism from all over the world, while your own people are dying... not to mention that a mere 300 million people use 25 percent of the Earth's natural resources...etc...etc... all the while while claiming not only "moral superiority", like you say, but also a God-given right to govern the rest of mankind.

If you're trying to lead by example, you're failing miserably.

I lived in Canada. I know what you are saying is BS. Where do most Canadians spend the winters? How come Canadians need both a house in town and a cabin on the lake? Just little things like that. Who uses more fossil fuels for heat per capita? Who douses the landscape with salt to the point that a new car is good for about six years before it decays into a heap of rust? Who buys another car and keeps it in the varage six months of the year while thgey try to squeeze the last molecule of rust out of the four year old one? I could go on and on. When you live in a glass house..........

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Ahh, but you see, Europe, Canada etc... do not claim themselves to be the shining beacon of humanity, like you do. I don't know, it's called "leading by example"?... See the other thread as well, since you felt the need to post this separately...

*edit* I'm sure there's a specific name in psychology for the practice of shouting the loudest and mirroring onto other your own defects, but can't think of it right now...

Now, since Condor has felt like saying a few things about Canada, the country I now live in, let's look at these claims...

Yes, pouring salt on the roads is bad. I totally agree. Yet, I'm sure its something you do in the U.S. as well. I'm not sure what you're saying about "squeeezing the last molecule of rust" rom an old car, but it appears to be a better practice than changing your car every year, like a pair of used underwear (hint, hint)

"Canadians need both a house in town and a cabin on the lake"... hmmm... I remember many of the Americans I knew in South Carolina having a second house on Lake Murray... *maybe* it's something that has to deal with a *certain* type of Anglo-Saxon/North American mentality, since most of the "new Canadians" I know don't exhibit these traits.

"Who uses more fossil fuels for heat per capita?" I don't know, you tell me, but if you're add heating needs as well, considering the difference in climate, you're nothing but a hypocrite.

 

[arsbanned]

There is more than ONE point of view in America, you see. Unlike Europe, where everyone moves in lock step, apparently.

Basically, your gloating disgusts me as much as Bush disgusts me.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I don't know. It seems to me we have, in recent years, behaved with disregard, arrogance, and even contempt toward the rest of the world, including our traditional allies.

The rescue operations in the Gulf are an indefensible cluster-fvck, and that is, IMO, the fruit of a combination of incompetence and unpreparedness at the local, state, and federal levels. We are the wealthiest, most powerful nation on earth, but our rescue operations seem exactly as crappy as I would expect if the same thing happened in, say, Guatemala (not to pick on Guatemala - hopefully you get the idea).

I am sure as hell not willing to listen to someone overseas talking about how we deserved this, but to the extent they feel this is an example of pride coming before a fall, I can certainly understand their perspective.

 

[arsbanned]

I agree the Federal response to this tragedy has been anemic. I have pointed it out in numerous threads. What amazes me is the European dogpiling going on. The European "intellectuals" and their mocking lecturing isn't productive atm and is in fact hypocritical.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Wow, arsbanned, thanks for further fueling my contempt... Just like in the other thread, when you ran out of arguments, so you decided to call it a day. Particularly, I love seeing the word "intellectuals" used in a derogatory sense... that's right, make it a dirty word!

"Get'em, cowboy, yee-haaw! Damn fore'ners and coward Peens... after saving their asses from Hitler and them Commies... how dare they speak?"

Where's the gloating, you nitwit? Where did I say "That's what you Amis deserve, nah-naaah ?" You really need medical help, if you can't see the finer points and the difference between "gloating" and "criticism"... but then again, considering the generalisations you're making yourself, I can't help but wonder why I bother replying to you, especially since you claim not to listen to me anymore.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
What amazes me is the European dogpiling going on. The European "intellectuals" and their mocking lecturing isn't productive atm and is in fact hypocritical.

Agreed. People such as that German minister really should keep their opinions to themselves and show some respect.

But like the U.S, Europe has its share of asshats who use disasters like the one that hit NO to further their political agenda. It's disgusing behavior from pathetic people.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Wow, arsbanned, thanks for further fueling my contempt... Just like in the other thread, when you ran out of arguments, so you decided to call it a day.

"Get'em, cowboy, yee-haaw! Damn fore'ners and coward Peens... after saving their asses from Hitler and them Commies... how dare they speak?"

You're not helping at all. If you enjoy reveling in our national tragedy, I suggest you do so silently.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Wow, arsbanned, thanks for further fueling my contempt... Just like in the other thread, when you ran out of arguments, so you decided to call it a day.

"Get'em, cowboy, yee-haaw! Damn fore'ners and coward Peens... after saving their asses from Hitler and them Commies... how dare they speak?"

Wow. You really are a jerk. Cowboy? I live in Maine. You're pretty ignorant. Who said anything about Hitler? You're out of control. Wipe the spittle off your monitor and go outside for a while. :disgust:

 

[AnitaPeterson]

psst: look at the edit... unlike you, I prefer not to double-post.

DonVito: like I told the "dude" above, I'm not enjoying this... but if you don't believe me, see for yourself: do a search and tell me if I lie.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Wow, arsbanned, thanks for further fueling my contempt... Just like in the other thread, when you ran out of arguments, so you decided to call it a day.

"Get'em, cowboy, yee-haaw! Damn fore'ners and coward Peens... after saving their asses from Hitler and them Commies... how dare they speak?"

You're not helping at all. If you enjoy reveling in our national tragedy, I suggest you do so silently.

:thumbsup:

I must say, this event has opened my eyes to European attitudes. If this is what being a enlightened human being is, I am severely disappointed.

Edit:
nitwit? What's this? Ad Homs from the enlightened human being? The vaunted European?
I've got a few terms for you, but I won't share. 😉

Notice how Anita never addresses the exact points in anyone's responses? Hmmm. My opinion continues to plummet. 😛

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Wow, arsbanned, thanks for further fueling my contempt... Just like in the other thread, when you ran out of arguments, so you decided to call it a day.

"Get'em, cowboy, yee-haaw! Damn fore'ners and coward Peens... after saving their asses from Hitler and them Commies... how dare they speak?"

You're not helping at all. If you enjoy reveling in our national tragedy, I suggest you do so silently.

:thumbsup:

I must say, this event has opened my eyes to European attitudes. If this is what being a enlightened human being is, I am severely disappointed.

Over the years it has not mattered what the US has done. It has always been not enough or too much in the eyes of the folks in EU. I stopped caring about what they had say long ago.

 

[arsbanned]

Yeah. Apparently we're all just "nitwits" here. 😀

 

[Czar]

as always the loud moths of the few get put as the words of the rest

please step above that simplistic conclusion

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
psst: look at the edit... unlike you, I prefer not to double-post.

DonVito: like I told the "dude" above, I'm not enjoying this... but if you don't believe me, see for yourself: do a search and tell me if I lie.

I don't know if you're enjoying yourself or not, but I do know that you're engaging in unnecessary, hurtful, and unproductive mockery of the United States at a time that it's struggling (and frequently failing) to respond to the worst disaster in its history. You're proving nothing and not helping in any way. I ask that you refrain from this gratuitous and stupid nastiness for the time being.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Wow, arsbanned, thanks for further fueling my contempt... Just like in the other thread, when you ran out of arguments, so you decided to call it a day.

"Get'em, cowboy, yee-haaw! Damn fore'ners and coward Peens... after saving their asses from Hitler and them Commies... how dare they speak?"

You're not helping at all. If you enjoy reveling in our national tragedy, I suggest you do so silently.

:thumbsup:

I must say, this event has opened my eyes to European attitudes. If this is what being a enlightened human being is, I am severely disappointed.

I wouldn't call this "European attitudes" I've lived in both the U.S and European countries and seen this kind of behavior from asshats pretty much everywhere I've been.

 

[arsbanned]

You're right. I'm doing what I'm accusing her of doing. Blanket generalizations are never good.

Wow. I feel like I've made some progress today. Think I'll go round up some cattle. 😛

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Take my words out of context, and make them sound as if *I'm* the one generalizing, not you...

Bravo, you're succeeding to 'shoot the messenger"! shouting the loudest really works! I mean, look, you've suceeded to not only establish me as a fervent anti-American, but now I'm also, apparently "Gloating" and "Enjoying" over a national tragedy. And so it goes...

I suppose there's no point in hoping for a rational answer here, there's too much wounded national pride. "Rational" and "National" don't mix.

 

[arsbanned]

Like I said, you are incapable of responding directly to points. You are incapable of facing the truth and rely instead on your hatred of the U.S to govern your reponse to our tragedy. You should be ashamed of your self. Thanks for enlightening me though.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
Take my words out of context, and make them sound as if *I'm* the one generalizing, not you...

Bravo, you're succeeding to 'shoot the messenger"! shouting the loudest really works! I mean, look, you've suceeded to not only establish me as a fervent anti-American, but now I'm also, apparently "Gloating" and "Enjoying" over a national tragedy. And so it goes...

I suppose there's no point in hoping for a rational answer here, there's too much wounded national pride. "Rational" and "National" don't mix.

I don't care - at all - if you think you're merely catering to our simple, provincial ways. I don't care if you think we're thin-skinned and hypocritical. I don't care if you regard yourself as a misunderstood intellectual, trapped in a benighted world full of morons. What I do care about is that you please stop your anti-American trolling, at least until the victims of Hurricane Katrina are out of harm's way.

What's ironic is that you've put yourself in the curious position of arguing with two liberal members of this board, neither of whom like or are inclined to defend President Bush or his administration (and if I'm wrong, arsbanned, please feel free to correct me).

I'm all for a spirited debate, but what you're doing is, in my view, like kicking a wounded animal, and I fail to see how someone who really is the kind of "intellectual" you purport to be could fail to see that.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Like I said, you are incapable of responding directly to points. You are incapable of facing the truth and rely instead on your hatred of the U.S to govern your reponse to our tragedy. You should be ashamed of your self. Thanks for enlightening me though.

Respond to points? I thought I did this in the very first post in this thread:

The fact is that your country is pouring billions (and trillions) of $$$ into a war that's alarming the planet and receiving criticism from all over the world, while your own people are dying... not to mention that a mere 300 million people use 25 percent of the Earth's natural resources...etc...etc... all the while while claiming not only "moral superiority", like you say, but also a God-given right to govern the rest of mankind.

If I criticize you, it's not because I hate you... It's because I refuse to sweep the dirt under the rug, like you'd want everybody to do. A man's character comes out under duress... but you're failing quite nicely to grasp that.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Like I said, you are incapable of responding directly to points. You are incapable of facing the truth and rely instead on your hatred of the U.S to govern your reponse to our tragedy. You should be ashamed of your self. Thanks for enlightening me though.

Respond to points? I thought I did this in the very first post in this thread:

The fact is that your country is pouring billions (and trillions) of $$$ into a war that's alarming the planet and receiving criticism from all over the world, while your own people are dying... not to mention that a mere 300 million people use 25 percent of the Earth's natural resources...etc...etc... all the while while claiming not only "moral superiority", like you say, but also a God-given right to govern the rest of mankind.

If I criticize you, it's not because I hate you... It's because I refuse to sweep the dirt under the rug, like you'd want everybody to do. A man's character comes out under duress... but you're failing quite nicely to grasp that.

Ah yes the proud canadian is critical of US consumption of resource, even though Canada uses resources at about the same rate of the US. Of course you are too blind to see that.